Q&A With PastaQueen
Jennette Fulda, better known as PastaQueen, may have lost a couple hundred or so pounds, but she’s been a commenter on and visitor to Big Fat Deal for a long time. On a blog tour for her memoir, Half of Me, she offered to stop by and answer the toughest questions I could come up with about weight loss and fat acceptance. Feel free to discuss the book, her responses, or my questions in the comments here—I know it will be a respectful and interesting discussion. Thanks again to Jennette for answering these questions so extensively, and giving us so much food for thought.
You say: “Whenever I tried hanging around fat-acceptance sites, I felt as if they were trying to make me feel bad for wanting to be thin, which was just as bad as anyone who tried to make me feel bad for being fat… if there were simply a self-acceptance movement, maybe I could have joined that.” What do you see as being the differences between “self acceptance” and “fat acceptance”? What would your self acceptance movement look like?
Before I make any comments about the fat acceptance movement, I’d like to acknowledge that there are many different ideas and forces at work within it, just like any philosophical or political movement. Asking someone what they think of fat acceptance is like asking them what they think about feminism or democracy or Bob Dylan. Maybe you liked his acoustic stuff, but didn’t care for the electric album. The current battle going on in the American Democratic party is proof that even when people are on the same side, they can disagree vehemently on certain issues. I was very careful in my book to only mention my personal experiences with the FA movement. I’m not trying to summarize it as a whole or write any treatises or manifestos. My book is a memoir, so it covers my memories and my personal experiences, nothing else.
That being said, I have visited fat acceptance sites where people tried to make me feel bad about my desire to lose weight. I never told anyone else to lose weight. I never tried to make anyone else feel bad for being fat. I just had to admit that I didn’t like being fat and I didn’t think there was anything wrong with that. If I didn’t like being a brunette, no one would give me shit about dying my hair blonde. At the same time however, I believe that fat people should not be discriminated against or made to feel bad because of their weight and that fat people deserve equal rights. I just think it’s okay if you prefer not to be one of those fat people. Not everyone agreed with me, which is why some of the sites I personally visited were less like fat acceptance sites and more like “accept you if you’re fat” sites, or at least “accept you if you’re fat and you like it” sites. Acceptance that comes with terms attached isn’t truly acceptance.
So, the difference I see between fat acceptance and self acceptance is that self acceptance means you are cool with whatever you are – fat, thin, a fat person who wants to be thin or even a thin person who wants to be fat. Many people in the fat acceptance movement embody this philosophy brilliantly, others not so much.
In your memoir, you also talk about fat girls who “let their thunder thighs steal their thunder.” What would you say to those girls?
First off, I promise that you are not nearly as fat as you think you are. I look back at photos from high school when I felt like a human blob and now I think “You were so thin!” Second, your size only matters as much as you let it. If you’re really self-conscious and feel bad about yourself, it will show in your body language no matter how big or small you are. If you walk into a room confidently, it will radiate out of you. There are many plus-sized role models who demonstrate these qualities, like Queen Latifah or Beth Ditto, and hopefully there will be many more in the future.
You talk about weight loss blogs and fat acceptance blogs not being mutually exclusive–and yet I’m sure many bloggers would disagree with you. Some fat acceptance blogs are not welcoming of people trying to lose weight at all, and some weight loss blogs claim that fat acceptance is the same as turning one’s back on weight loss. Do you think either of these concerns is valid? I think ultimately both of those types of blogs are about the same thing – the right to do with your body as you chose. For some people that means losing weight and for others it’s declaring that they don’t feel a need to drop any pounds. Just as fat acceptance members don’t want people to give them crap about being fat, people who are losing weight don’t want people to give them crap about eating salads.
Sometimes people take their pride so far in one direction that they create shame in the other direction. For instance, I’ve read threads on message boards where overweight women justifiably complain about how women are mocked on tabloid covers for being fat. Then those same women will make jokes about Kate Bosworth for being a “bag of sticks” and say she should “eat a cheeseburger.” How is this any different than saying a fat girl is a “tub of lard” who should “get on a treadmill?” In both cases you’re ridiculing women for their bodies. Some women are naturally fat and others are naturally thin, and neither group deserves to be humiliated or degraded because of that.
If the lines of communication were more open and welcoming between these groups, I think we could make a lot more positive progress in the world than we do by hating on each other. There aren’t that many people who’ve lived life as a morbidly obese person and as a thin person. This gives me a unique perspective on issues and it would be sad if I was shut out from sharing it with one group or the other simply because of my current size. Sometimes I’ve gotten nasty comments on my blog from people on the extreme edges of the fat acceptance movement. It’s ironic that in a movement that is about not judging people for their size, they’ve stopped by to judge me because of my size.
You talk about accepting yourself, and in that process, accepting that you weren’t happy being fat. Do you think it’s possible to accept yourself as a fat person without accepting your fatness? Do you think the fact that you thought of it this way is what enabled you to lose the weight? In other words, do you think if you’d been a more self-confident fat girl, you might never have been motivated to become thin?
No matter how self-confident I might have been, there were things about being morbidly obese that just sucked. It had nothing to do with what fashion editors in New York put on the covers of magazines. I was so fat that I injured my knee walking up the stairs. I had to have my gallbladder removed at age 23. I became exhausted just tossing a ball around with my cat. My weight was seriously inhibiting me from living the life I wanted to lead. Because of that, I believe I would have been motivated to lose weight no matter what.
So, I obviously knew I was fat and accepted that I was currently a fat person. However, I also believed that I could lose weight and live a healthier lifestyle – and I did. I didn’t accept that being fat was an inescapable part of my life, and for me that turned out to be true.
You lost a great deal of weight without surgery, and have kept it off. Do you think it’s possible or desirable for every fat person to do what you did?
I think every man and woman faces different challenges when it comes to weight loss. Some people are naturally thinner than others and don’t have to work as hard to be slender. Some battle eating disorders which can make it dangerous for them to try losing weight because they do so in ways that are harmful to their health. Some people just don’t have access to fresh fruits and vegetables and lean meats that are part of a healthy diet. These are aspects of our lives that we don’t control. However, we can all exert some control over our environment by choosing to exercise and to make the best eating choices available to us. So, I think weight loss is definitely possible, though it may be harder for some people than others, and potentially dangerous if they go about it in the wrong way.
As far as desirable goes, I think it’s desirable to eat healthy and maintain an active lifestyle. Many times that leads to weight loss, but you can still be somewhat overweight and healthy. According to my BMI, I’m still technically overweight, but all my medical tests say I’m in excellent health. Ultimately, everyone has a right to do with their body as they chose, so they get to lead whatever lifestyle they want to, be it fat or thin, fit or unfit, or any mixture of those adjectives. Leading the life you want to lead is the most desirable thing of all.
You also say you don’t feel like a fat person on the inside anymore. Do you think you were disconnected from your body when you were very heavy? Or do you think the gradual process of weight loss helped you to adjust? Or is there another reason?
I feel defined by my actions. Last weekend I ran a half marathon, which is not something a morbidly obese person can do. (They might be able to walk it, but I don’t know of any 400-pound people who can run the whole thing.) I can carry my groceries up the stairs without panting. I can fit into my car without my belly brushing the wheel. All of these things make up my daily life and make me feel like a thin person.
The slow process of losing weight over 3 years certainly helped me adjust to the changes. I used to check myself out in the mirror ALL THE TIME when I was losing weight, a lot more than I do now. I think it was my mind’s way of recalibrating my self-image every day.
Also, when I was morbidly obese, I didn’t quite have a sense of how fat I was. When I watched a video of myself or saw photos, I was shocked by how large I appeared. It was like hearing my voice on an answering machine and not quite believing it was me. So yeah, I was disconnected from my body back then. I find that all the exercise that I do these days keeps me in touch with what my body is capable of and more in tune with it in general.
There’s been talk in the fatosphere recently about people’s healthy eating habits, exercise regimes, or weight loss being threatening and triggering, or reinforcing the idea of low-self esteem, of something being “wrong” with you if you aren’t thin. People reading this might see the discussion of your weight loss memoir in a size acceptance blog a hostile act. Admittedly, this is an extreme point of view, but what would you say to counteract it?
As I said earlier, my book is about my personal experiences. No one has to live the life I led or make the choices I made. The decision as to whether you should try to lose weight, or if you even need to, is up to every individual. What I’d like for people to understand after reading my book is that you can lose weight without it being an act of self-hate or self-loathing. And you can learn a lot about yourself through the process.
I think you hinted at the answer in your question when you said “size acceptance” and not “fat acceptance” or “thin acceptance.” I think we all want to be accepted no matter what our size – fat, thin or shifting in between. Just as people who are fat don’t want to be attacked for not being thin, people who used to be fat don’t want to be attacked for having become thin. If we’re going to accept people’s bodies, we’ve got to accept them no matter what size they are, have been, or will be in the future. You’re not really being accepting if you say it’s only okay if someone stays fat or stays thin and anyone who changes their dress size is evil. If size truly is irrelevant to our personal identity, it doesn’t really matter whether you’re fat, thin, shrinking or expanding.
Many times our reactions are more about our own issues than anything else. If you automatically assume that everyone who talks about exercise and eating right is judging you for not being thin, it probably speaks more to your own feelings about your weight than anything someone on the Stairmaster is really thinking about you. I don’t think I’m superior to anyone else because I run 3 times a week and I find it odd that some people assume I do feel that way.
What would you say to Big Fat Deal readers who are focused on body acceptance and not trying to lose weight. Why would they want to read your book?
While my book is a weight-loss memoir, ultimately it’s about transformation and the possibilities life holds for all of us. I’ve always liked the parts of body acceptance that emphasize possibilities and I dislike the parts that focus on limitations. On the surface, my book is about losing a lot of weight, but the deeper message is that you can shape your life into whatever you want it to be. You can lose a ton of weight, find a better job, get out of a bad relationship, start a salt-water taffy stand – whatever you want to do, you can do it!
I also hope they would read it and understand that you can love your body and be making changes to it at the same time. Self-acceptance isn’t the same thing as self-satisfaction. Self-acceptance means you’ve faced the truth of who you are, flaws and all. Self-satisfaction means you’re happy with it. I think it’s okay to admit that there are things you don’t like about yourself and to strive to make changes in a positive way. It’s okay to admit that you don’t like being fat. It doesn’t have to mean that you hate yourself. It just means there’s something you want to change in your life. As long as you go about it in a healthy, sane manner, there’s nothing wrong with that.
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Beth Ditto, Books, Exercise, Meta, Question, Weight Loss, WLS
Email us
I have LONG thought exactly this same way. I’m all for self-acceptance, but as an inbetweenie I HAVE to admit that there are people much, much heavier than I am who cannot lead the life they would like to have because their weight limits what they are physically capable of that. That’s why I can’t quite call myself a proponent of fat acceptance. I love the term “size acceptance”, however, and will be using it from now on.
It’s an interesting interview, but my only qualm is that she doesn’t seem to consider that some people will remain pretty much fat even though they live a very healthy and active life (see fatgirlonabike)…
Maybe Sarah is an exception and has a very high setpoint, no matter what. Maybe Jennette was living way above her natural setpoint without knowing it. Point is, even though she accepts the existence of HAES, she seems to only half-embrace it.
HillaryGayle, I’m not entirely sure how you can “admit” that someone heavier than you “cannot lead the life they would like to have” because of their weight. I don’t have a damn clue what someone else’s life experience is and how weight affects that experience.
For me, the whole maddening thing is this: health is a great goal. If you feel sluggish and slow and out of shape and malnourished or whatev, then address that. Try to get healthier. That’s a reward in and of itself. But weight loss doesn’t necessarily give you health. And making weight loss a goal supports the idea that treating our bodies well isn’t enough–that we also must be engaged in making ourselves smaller, not simply stronger or faster or healthier.
Fat acceptance takes weight loss off the table and disconnects health from the scale–it says, you can be healthy (or not) and fit (or not) and exercise (or not) and eat intuitively (or not) and all that is okay whether you lose weight or not. It’s about not feeling like you have to fight your body simply because it’s fat (or not).
Sometimes people take their pride so far in one direction that they create shame in the other direction. For instance, I’ve read threads on message boards where overweight women justifiably complain about how women are mocked on tabloid covers for being fat. Then those same women will make jokes about Kate Bosworth for being a “bag of sticks” and say she should “eat a cheeseburger.” How is this any different than saying a fat girl is a “tub of lard” who should “get on a treadmill?”
Bleh. May I suggest that Ms Fulda reads up on privilege and power dynamics (there’s a great intro here) and then maybe she’ll see how there might be a difference.
your size only matters as much as you let it
Rubbish. Tell that to all the fat women who get sub-standard medical treatment because their weight is used as an excuse for anything. Tell that to all the fat girls who’s self-esteem is shattered by years of peer pressure and bullying. It’s all their fault? Er, no.
I’m pretty involved with COFRA, but yet there are some in the fat acceptance movement who do not accept me or think me capable of being a fat acceptance activist because I am one of those 5 percent of people who has lost weight and kept it off for at least five years. In my case, I’ve maintained a weight loss of more than 100 pounds and am on my fifth year of maintenance. So, while I don’t promote weight-loss on my site, I also understand where people like PastaQueen are coming from. It’s important to note that I lost the weight via disordered eating, and that I do not now actively diet to maintain my current weight.
I also don’t identify as a fat acceptance activist. Maybe it’s because I’ve never quite felt comfortable staying within lines that have been drawn by others, but I also feel that my choice of “fat rights” more accurately and semantically affirms what it is I a strive for. I consider fat rights to be the political and body size acceptance the personal aspects of my personal activism platform. Thin people do not face the codified and rigid discrimination fat people uniquely face, explaining my fat rights stance. But people of all sizes are made to feel feel insecure about their bodies, which is why I use the more ambiguous term body size acceptance to denote the personal.
Because of the nature of my personal blog (eating disorders), I don’t link to PastaQueen and given my own relevant past with eating disorders, I probably won’t read her book. But personally, I think we share a lot of the same beliefs and from what it sounds like, even similar experiences.
Thanks for the interview, Mo, and thanks for the insight, Jennette. I realize now I might have had some misconceptions about your site, and I’m glad to see I was wrong about some of the things I thought you promoted.
Great interview! I look forward to reading the book. I hope PQ’s critics will note that she bends over backwards here to point out that her experience is just that–her own experience, and not a critique of anyone else who has a different experience.
I had to have my gallbladder removed at age 23.
That one’s funny. I swear I recently heard someone say that she had to have her gallbladder removed because she’d damaged it by … dieting.
Also, I completely agree with ladyjaye. :)
I apologize that this is a minor quibble, but I am part of a half-marathon running group with several morbidly obese members, including myself, who can and do run– not walk– half-marathons. It might be easier/more possible for PastaQueen to run 13.1 miles now, but that doesn’t mean its impossible for anyone who is morbidly obese.
It might be easier/more possible for PastaQueen to run 13.1 miles now, but that doesn’t mean its impossible for anyone who is morbidly obese.
I couldn’t run even a 2 mile marathon when I weighed 125 pounds and wore a size 4. I admire people who can run marathons, regardless of their size but I have to say, I don’t envy them. I hate running!
Zilly – I had a gallbladder attack several years ago. It was the worst pain of my life, worse even than I imagine childbirth to be. The first question asked of me by the doctor is if I had lost a lot of weight recently (I had). Apparently dramatic weight loss in a short period of time can trigger gallbladder attacks. I had a surgery scheduled to remove it, but chickened out at the last minute. Luckily I haven’t had any problems since.
i agree with her on a lot of this, but the rah-rah you-can-do-anything ending seems to overlook certain realities. contrary to the great american dream, there are a lot of people who will never have the luck to turn their dreams and hard work into the reality they desire, regardless of how much effort they expend. that’s no reason not to try — most people will still realize at least some degree of betterment — but it’s still an unideal reality. she also fails to accommodate the fact that the vast majority of all people cannot sustain significant weight loss. just about everyone reading here has seen the studies and heard something about the biological processes involved. personally, the bottom end of my natural weight range has me teetering on the verge of “normal weight.” i could technically weigh less, but i literally have to not eat in order to get there. i cannot achieve a socially-acceptable slender shape and still be healthy.
i’m also bothered by her conflation of health with weight loss. sometimes they go together. sometimes they don’t. she seems to say that one cannot be obese and healthy. size acceptance tries very hard to uncouple health from weight. her interview answers generally counter that.
Terrific, thought-provoking interview from Mo and PQ both! I can see where, when one’s own personal weight was tied to poor habits and poor health, and her new regime led to lower weight and good health, it would be pretty natural for that person to tie weight, health, and habits together.
I read BFD, Shapely Prose, and Half of Me regularly; they aren’t all preaching from the same gospel, but they’re all about respecting and loving the body you’re in, and I like the result of the combination. It wouldn’t make sense for PQ to accept that diets and exercise don’t result in lasting change, because for her they do — and it wouldn’t make sense for Kate Harding to accept that she can lose and keep off any meaningful amount of weight by exercising and dieting, because in fact it didn’t work that way for her.
I find that the combination of the two schools of thought inspires me to keep working at the exercise and healthy eating even when I don’t necessarily feel like it at the moment, while recognizing that my body also has certain inherent limitations specific only to me. (And to be deeply grateful that I can in fact, at this point in my life, remain healthy by eating well and exercising.)
So essentially, when PQ was fat she did no exercise, was completely unfit and felt awful. Then she decided to get thin and did an absolute pile of exercise. Now she is fitter and feels she has better quality of life because of it.
What the hell does weight loss have to do with it?
Just as fat acceptance members don’t want people to give them crap about being fat, people who are losing weight don’t want people to give them crap about eating salads.
Oh, right! Because fat people never eat salads. I had salad for lunch and tea today, but clearly I’m just a statistical anomaly. Don’t all start giving me crap, now.
I just think it’s okay if you prefer not to be one of those fat people.
The implication that being fat is a choice is galling, incorrect, and something the FA movement is trying to counteract. Why is someone ostensibly associated with HAES giving this perception a wider audience? She has to know that by doing so she’s making life harder for other fat people who’re done trying to starve and exercise themselves into a shape they’re not meant to be. That is not all right.
However, we can all exert some control over our environment by choosing to exercise and to make the best eating choices available to us. So, I think weight loss is definitely possible, though it may be harder for some people than others, and potentially dangerous if they go about it in the wrong way.
And completely impossible for many, who are already making healthy food and exercise choices, but are not automatically losing weight because of it.
It’s okay to admit that you don’t like being fat. It doesn’t have to mean that you hate yourself. It just means there’s something you want to change in your life. As long as you go about it in a healthy, sane manner, there’s nothing wrong with that.
There is very little healthy or sane about dieting for weight loss, which is unachieveable or unsustainable for 95-98% of people. Health and sanity will come a lot easier for most people if they focus on accepting their bodies as they are, and developing healthy, pleasurable relationships with food and exercise for their own sake rather than to achieve impossible weight-loss goals. God knows that’s hard enough to do in the face of all the opposing messages from society; adding this one to the mix is hardly helping anyone.
Mo Pie, obviously this is your blog and you can do whatever you damn well please on it, but I feel that giving this kind of message a voice here is irresponsible. There are thousands of websites all over the internet giving me this “I lost weight and you can too!” bullshit. It felt a bit like a slap in the face to see it here.
Caitlin – phew. I thought I was totally alone but you seem to have picked my brain and written it down. Of course, my eyes glazed over when I saw the reference to “morbidly obese” and by the time I got to “you can still be somewhat overweight and healthy” (gee, thanks for the permission, but I guess I’m really screwed, being really fat and all) and the bit about marathons (I’m not much interested in marathons but FatGirlOn A Bike sure seems to be, and she wears the same size as me so, what. ever) my blood started to boil.
Ok, so the whole thing really really bothers me. A lot. The whole premise. There are literally **millions of places** online you can go and find cheerleaders for you when you are fat and are actively trying to lose weight – why in hell would anyone expect that from the fat acceptance/fat rights movement? It’s completely counter to the entire point.
However, I do know that out of size acceptance blogs, this is one that accepts the dieting message (whether or not that makes sense to me), and I guess I could make the choice not to read because of the chance. Sigh.
Fulda wrote, “If I didn’t like being a brunette, no one would give me shit about dying my hair blonde. At the same time however, I believe that fat people should not be discriminated against or made to feel bad because of their weight and that fat people deserve equal rights. I just think it’s okay if you prefer not to be one of those fat people.”
I’m with Ample on this one and have to say that Fulda’s responses to your questions (exemplified by the hair dye comment above) show a complete and stubborn lack of understanding of the mechanisms of privilege.
Now that she’s so in touch with her body, perhaps she can get beyond her navel-gazing and start to do some critical thinking about the world and maybe even take another look at that strange and inexplicable anger expressed at her by some of those edgy FA types.
Imagine substituting any other oppressed group for fat and perhaps Fulda might start to see why that line of thinking is problematic, especially when Fulda also writes, “I’ve always liked the parts of body acceptance that emphasize possibilities and I dislike the parts that focus on limitations.”
Damn us extreme edge FA folks for pointing out the limitations caused by societal dscrimination against fat people. If we just stopped looking at institutional oppression (like racism, sexism, homophobia, and fatphobia) and focused on the all-powerful individual who has a world of “choice” (be thin or fat, it’s up to you!), we might start to see that the world can be a happy, sunny place!
As she claims to have visited FA sites, I have to assume she didn’t do very much reading there, or she might have begun to see how one woman’s “memoir” can and does function as yet another bit of not very original propoganda in the “I did it, you can do”vein.
Like Caitlin, I’m sort of in shock to see this woman given a forum given that the entire world supports and embraces her. Is she so insecure that it’s not enough to be validated by so many people that she needs this small corner of resistance and critical thinking about fat oppression to validate her as well?
I’ve really enjoyed reading your blog, but I think I’ll give it a pass from now on if this is the direction you’re taking it. I can read this bullshit in any women’s magazine.
Ample says: “Bleh. May I suggest that Ms Fulda reads up on privilege and power dynamics (there’s a great intro here) and then maybe she’ll see how there might be a difference.”
I say: Bullshit. Sure, privilege exists but it seems to me that PQ was pointing out that it is hypocritical for someone to object the mockery of their own body type while participating in the mockery of someone else’s body type. Do unto others and all that….
Red herring. Most FA/FR advocates refrain from such remarks (or admonish others to please refrain from them) while managing to recognize the distinction between them even so. I don’t know of a single FA blog that tolerates that kind of disparaging remark about thin people.
But then I’m one of THOSE fat people. The kind PQ didn’t want to be like. So what do I know?
wow, I never saw that kind of response coming. I wanted to say something else but all I can think now is that you (the collective you of commenters) are scary.
Well there was an article recently on how fat people scare children. We also ruin moments. Sorry anabel :)
oh yes! I remembered. I used to read PQ but I stopped after she reached my weight, then I couldn’t read her anymore (funny how that happens). And the thing about Fat Acceptance is that as I see it, and these are my grandmother words, it is a “high class” problem, probably because I’m not from a first world country.
I can’t believe how rude some of these comments are. If any of you would say such things to this woman’s face, you really have no place in polite society.
Wow, the anger radiates!!
This is the first time I have posted on this site. I recently came across this blog because I thought it was great to have a place where women could come and talk about weight, society issues with weight, and women loving themselves. Maybe I was wrong.
Just because PastaQueen decided to lose weight for herself, to be the person she wanted to be, she gets ridiculed. I don’t think she is seeking validation, just telling her story, from her point of view.
Pastaqueen isn’t getting ridiculed for losing weight; she stated her point of view in the interview and managed to insult those who may be supersize AND healthy. Or anyone else who believes in HAES (not in “lose weight and therefore you will be healthy).
For instance, I’ve been doing aquagym, and I did lose a bit. Maybe one dress size or so. But it wasn’t on purpose and it certainly wasn’t the goal. It’s not even something I usually mention on FA blogs because to me it doesn’t matter how my body reacts. However, her journey was first and foremost to lose weight, getting healthy was a secondary goal. And her book cover does emphasize the “lose weight now, ask me how” part even if it wasn’t her intention.
I want to respond, and I’ve been writing and re-writing my response, but nothing is coming out correctly.
So I will say this. I applaud most people who have the courage to talk about his/her personal choices (that don’t affect anyone but them) in a setting where he/she knows that the majority will disagree (and sometimes disagree vehemently).
I know that the comments here deal with the fact that what PQ did is “mainstream” and regarded well in society at large; however, I think that in the FA community, talking about her “transformation” (for lack of a better word) was actually brave. I read FA blogs daily and… sometimes I think they can have blinders on just as society in general. Just my two cents.
Thanks, Mo, for doing this. I really like your blog, and I think this type of interview and some of your recent posts have solidified this for me.
90/10 rule. 10 per cent is the event and 90 per cent how you react to it.
She stated her point of view in the interview (10 per cent) and managed to insult those who may be supersize AND healthy (90 per cent, that’s your reaction and I disagree)
Christine – honest questions. What exactly do you believe was said that was actually rude? Do you not see how some of the phrasing and sentiment people were reacting to could be seen as rude and if so, why not? And do you think there was ever a struggle for equality worth winning that was won by being sweet and ladylike and polite?
Is there a place in the world where people are allowed to NOT applaud weight loss as a worthwhile goal in life and to accept fat? Why would it be threatening if there are such places, given the absolutely stunning plethora of places (er, the whole world) that already celebrate dieting and weight loss/demonize fat?
Wow, this is obviously a very sensitive subject. I thought is was a great interview and was pleasantly surprised to see it here. While not a member of the fat acceptance movement, I enjoy reading a number of FA blogs because I agree with many of the principles, and because I do want to understand where the FA folks are coming from. Intelligent, respectful dialogue is important to furthering any cause. I think Jennette did a great job of being respectful while explaining her own position.
Can I just mention that it’s not so unique to have viewed life as both “morbidly obeeeese” (any word on the moratorium on that word yet?) and rail-skinny; I’ve been to both; maybe about half my life thin, half fat. I’m still me now. And this message in the context of fat acceptance is doubly assaulting when you’ve come from skinny to fat and have had to learn from scratch how to accept yourself and demand respect that you deserve from others (which was often given to you much easier when you were skinny.)
Yes, it is a sensitive subject, I agree. Because while you may be dabbling, or touring, some people are actually fat acceptance/rights activists and don’t have any meaningful choice whether to be thin or fat. Like 98% of people don’t. They’re talking about things that matter very much to them personally, like how fat people are threatened by the government (not the least of which having their children taken away from them and being called terrorists.) So yeah, it’s sensitive.
Thank you Mo for posting this interview and to PQ for participating in it. Reaching out beyond your comfort zone to defend your ideas is admirable and can be very difficult.
I think that there are differences of opinion which may go beyond some people’s threshold and may still be tolerable to others. Every dissenting opinion to your views is not a threat that needs to be attacked.
However. (yes, it has to come sometime). I have always liked PQ’s writing style and her blog, and by extension, her. She’s clever, she’s funny, she’s all that and a bag of olestra baked chips. But as someone with a checkered past of disordered eating, I have to admit that I don’t pop in to read her site too often, for the sheer fact that I find myself having to skip over what I consider “dietporn” posts. Example: weight updates, post on what she eats, etc. Her posts on her running improvements and life overall are downright inspiring.
She hasn’t turned around and pointed the finger of “YOU SHOULD DO THIS TOO SEE HOW EASY FOR ME IT WAS?” While others might use her (for example, interviewers who are anti-fat/pro-lose) as a shining icon of what we fatties all must be, she herself is not doing that. At all. She really could give two shits about whatever other people do. She is a woman who took her life into her own hands and gave herself agency. I do not see her as someone who is struggling with ED or other disordered behaviors, and if she is, it’s none of my business. She is not prescribing it to anyone. Just because others might infer that because SHE can do it WE should do it doesn’t make her the enemy.
Ultimately here is why I really genuinely think PQ’s blog is good for me (dietporn aside) – she is not living out the /fantasy/ of being thin. Jeanette is the /reality/ of being thin. The mundane bits, the diet sodas, the minutiae of buying a new scale….this is the reality. Her blog reinforces that she lost alllll those pounds and she still has the same old life, basically. She didn’t meet a rock star and get married on a yacht and give her high school enemies their comeuppance. She did not become an actress/model/tap dancer (although she still has time! Even if she gains it all back!) rocketing on her path to stardom as a Hollywood power player. She had totally normal goals and expectations of what would happen when she lost weight, and achieved them by working herself very hard and being ever-vigilant of her own weight and diet. Her writings remind me that this is a tedium and hardship which I would like to avoid, that it is one that has hurt me in the past and that is not worth it.
She is a person. A normal, funny, humble person. Who gets excited about her new mango slicer and posts *pictures* of it. This is a girl that I want on my side. And luckily enough, I think she is smart enough to realize that we aren’t all in one big camp that is anti-PQ. Yes, there are a few wording choices there that I don’t approve of and I do hope that she is treating herself with all the love and compassion she deserves. I want her to be happy at any size, and to understand that some of us can be (and are healthy!). But to due this I’m not going to slap her wrist away. I’d rather high five over our commonalities and respectfully point out our differences.
I welcome the interview as well… I certainly didn’t agree with everything she said. She kinda lost me when she referred to queen Latifah as a plus-size role model… But still, it was a good read, and it made me feel better about *my* position. That is, being extremely overweight, being unhealthy, and doing something about it. For me, that’s Weight Watchers. And it’s not about vanity. I’ve lost 16 pounds, and yeah, my face looks a little thinner… but more importantly, my knees feel better. I bounce between the WW boards and BFD because it keeps me from getting obsessed. I don’t want to be one of the ladies on there that counts how many ounces they’ve lost in a week… I just need a tool that reminds me to eat healthier and move. And I cannot tell you how many times I plug BFD when someone starts in with the self-loathing stuff…
Oh, and I thought her comment about mocking celebrities for being thin was just silly. I don’t feel bad for *any* celebrity. If you don’t want the attention, then don’t live in LA or NYC. It comes with the territory. And most of those women are NOT healthily thin! Hours long sessions at the gym, super-restricted diets… We’ve all read about what starlets do to maintain their figures. She lost a lot of credibility when she mentioned that.
You people need to get over yourselves. She was not insulting anybody, she purely stated a truthful comment. 400-lbs people can not be healthy no matter what you say. They will never be able to ride a rollercoaster, buy an economic airplane ticket and fitting in one seat, fit in restaurant booths, buy clothes from a high street normal shop, etc and don’t give me this crap of “everything is too small”.
Stop giving this woman crap. She made a personal decision to lose weight because she was NOT healthy and happy. Good luck to you trying to be fat and happy and all I can say is even more good luck trying to make society accept you too.
Oh… and setpoints. Can you tell me that someone was born and weighed 400 lbs? wtf? If being fat was like such a not big problem why the hell do you bother excusing it then? I will make a point that will probably be taken completely the wrong way because you always take people’s words and twist them around. Black people do not excuse themselves for being black and they’re subject to a lot of discrimation too so why do you justify your fatness? Shouldn’t it be a case of “i’m fat, period” not “i am fat because of my genes, setpoint, hormones, etc”.
I can’t believe how rude some of these comments are. If any of you would say such things to this woman’s face, you really have no place in polite society.
Christine, this is called the opposing view. One comes across it from time to time in adult society, where truth, debate and accountabilty for one’s words are more important than “politeness”. That said, I can’t see that any of the comments above yours were particularly rude. If you would like to see “rude” in action, take a wander round the internet outside the fatosphere and see the things that are said about fat people on a daily basis. Most of which hinge on the notion that fat people are lazy and stupid and choose to be fat, a perception PQ is doing nothing to alleviate with her talk of “preferring” not to be a fat person, as if that’s all it takes.
And the thing about Fat Acceptance is that as I see it, and these are my grandmother words, it is a “high class” problem, probably because I’m not from a first world country.
So…if a group of people are being marginalised, shamed, discriminated against, and denied equal medical care and employment opportunities, but they live in a “first-world country”, that’s okay? I’m afraid I disagree. Not least because women from working-class backgrounds are at least as likely to be fat as those who are middle-class in the UK and America (the two countires with which I’m familiar), making it an issue that cuts across class boundaries.
This is the first time I have posted on this site. I recently came across this blog because I thought it was great to have a place where women could come and talk about weight, society issues with weight, and women loving themselves. Maybe I was wrong.
Or maybe you were right, and we’re doing just that. It doesn’t all have to be kumbaya to be about women loving themselves. Sometimes a bit of righteous anger is entirely justified — as when one finds such blatant “I lost weight by making healthy diet and exercise choices, and you can too!” on a blog ostensibly devoted to helping women accept themselves as they are. Plenty of women make healthy diet and exercise choices and don’t lose weight — what are they meant to take from this? If they just tried a bit harder, they could make it? It’s confirming the message of weight-loss as a magic bullet, and supporting the idea of losing weight as a worthwhile goal achieveable through hard work and a spunky attitude. For most people that is not the case, and posts like this do a lot more to hurt than to help them.
I take issue with the idea that we’re “ridiculing” PQ, also. “I disagree with what you’re saying, and I think it’s harmful” is not a personal attack.
400-lbs people can not be healthy no matter what you say. They will never be able to ride a rollercoaster, buy an economic airplane ticket and fitting in one seat, fit in restaurant booths, buy clothes from a high street normal shop, etc and don’t give me this crap of “everything is too small”.
I’d love to know what definition of healthy you’re living by. Strangely, not one of these is on the list of symptoms my doctor asks me about. (“I have a bit of a cough.” “Oh, right. Have you had difficulty buying an economic airplane ticket recently?” “Yes! I have.” “That settles it, it’s bronchitis.”) Moreover, Fat Girl on a Bike is well over 300lb and she runs triathalons. That’s pretty damn healthy by any standard.
My point is: neither you nor I know a thing about a person’s health without asking them. Contrary to popular belief, you CANNOT tell how healthy someone is by looking at them. (Yes, even if they’re 400lb+.)
Oh… and setpoints. Can you tell me that someone was born and weighed 400 lbs? wtf? If being fat was like such a not big problem why the hell do you bother excusing it then? I will make a point that will probably be taken completely the wrong way because you always take people’s words and twist them around. Black people do not excuse themselves for being black and they’re subject to a lot of discrimation too so why do you justify your fatness? Shouldn’t it be a case of “i’m fat, period” not “i am fat because of my genes, setpoint, hormones, etc”.
The setpoint is the natural weight your body wants to maintain at a given point in your life, and will maintain if you’re eating as intuitively as you can and doing whatever movement feels right for you. It varies due to many factors — age, drug side affects, stress and hormones being just a few. It can and will change over the course of a lifetime, and for many people it will be higher than the “normal” weight range society wants us all to fit into. The point of HAES and FA is to make your peace with your body’s natural shape and live life the best you can in the body you’re given. It’s very very hard to break out of the bonds of dietcrazy (and I’m not there yet) but it’s much happier way to live.
We “justify” our fatness because the dominant viewpoint in our society is that being fat is a choice — something you do to yourself through overeating and underexercising. Twin studies have shown that weight is roughly as heritable as height, and no one goes around telling short people that if they just tried diet and exercise they could be a foot taller. The FA movement is partly about conciousness-raising in this area — showing people that fat is not a moral issue, because being fat is not due to some personality flaw. Which means that for the vast majority of people it’s not something you can “fix” by going on a personal journey. By all means go on a personal journey, and if PQ’s found happiness on hers I’m glad for her, but to append weight loss as a major component or goal of that journey makes it frustratingly unreachable for almost everyone.
Wow, some of you fat acceptance people are really mean, and I don’t get why. PQ bent over BACKWARDS to say she was only talking about her own views and experience. I think it was a great interview and the comments really prove every point PQ was trying to make.
Mo, I love that you have this sort of article on your site.
To get any traction, FA needs to be able to admit this kind of point of view without alienating people. Are PQ’s experiences as a fat person less valid because she tried (and was able to) lose weight? Are her opinions worth less because she went down a path that many of the commenters above say is not available to them? It seems like the politics of envy to me, not of acceptance. PQ wasn’t asking for applause, she was sharing her thoughts and experiences and if we can’t allow that without getting all hysterical and shrieky then what are we here for?
Interesting, Andrea, that you start with “health” and then go on to talk about rollercoasters, airplane seats, and restaurant booths. I honestly think it’s backwards to take external design issues and extrapolate them back to saying people are “unhealthy” – rollercoaster designers are not sitting there saying “Okay, how can I design this ride so that only healthy people are riding on it?” It’s irrelevant.
And, in the face of fat people on this site telling you that they’re healthy, it’s also . . . dismissive, I think.
Never mind that skinny people are not born weighing 100 pounds, either. Humans do this thing which is called “growing” – usually in several directions. :) It is not my fault that I grew into a body that is considered “normal” by the general public, and I have done nothing whatsoever to achieve this. Then there are those who have the misfortune to grow into a larger body – and what people don’t get is that many of them have not done anything to achieve this, either.
May I point out that there is absolutely no need to twist around those words about black people? They’re already mind-boggling enough on their own. Black people don’t NEED an excuse for why they’re black because everyone KNOWS why they’re black. Fat people, on the other hand, are accused of being at fault somehow, so OF COURSE they want to clarify that. *shakes head in disbelief* Next we’ll have black people announcing, “It’s not my fault, it’s the genes!” – Well, duh. :D
Typical. The minute fat activists dare to push back we get called “mean,” “hysterical,” “shrieky,” and “scary.” Because being nice and quiet always gets us somewhere. Oh, wait, no, it just gets us a list of all the things we shouldn’t dare to do while we’re still fat at someone.
While I was surprised to see this interview here, this is Mo’s blog and her space to do with what she wishes. I don’t care one way or another what Ms. Fulda has done with her body. I believe in body autonomy and that it’s not my business what someone does. But I also don’t believe that you can say you believe in fat acceptance when you’re actively working to lose weight in the pursuit of health. Isn’t HAES meant to divorce health from weight? It’s textbook cognitive dissonance.
Pingback: Waiting for My Car « Maspik Teruzim
Thanks Mopie for posting this. Also wanted to call out Sass’ comments because I largely agree with everything she said.
How can you believe in HAES if you don’t accept someone’s right to change their size, if that is what they want to do and if they are able to do it? Does it even matter why people lose weight, and if so, why? If PQ had simply changed her eating and exercise habits without having weight loss as a goal, and had happened to lose weight as a result would people be so scathing? I mean to say, if someone’s weight changes as a result of events over which they have no control is that better than if someone loses weight because they want to? And is it more worthy of acceptance?
I really do want to understand and I apologise for using the words hysterical and shrieky about this, I didn’t think it through and I can see how they were offensive.
I was pleasantly surprised to see this interview posted here, on an FA site, because my experience/thoughts with FA are so similar to PQ’s. The world says “you must diet to fit in”, FA says “you must not diet to fit in”. Where is the middle ground, where it doesn’t matter AT ALL if I diet or don’t diet, if I’m thin or not thin? That would be real Size Acceptance.
For one minute, I thought perhaps this was finnaly that middle ground, but from the comments here obviously it is not.
You know, I know the concept of the “middle ground” and “splitting the difference” between two extremes has an intuitive appeal – it makes sense as an appealing way to mediate two opposing views and have both contribute. The problem is, as they pointed out in the negotiation class I took, its appeal is largely due to our like of neat, symmetrical solutions, rather than because the “middle ground” solution is necessarily the right one. I think that’s important to remember – splitting the difference may produce a solution that is aesthetically appealing, but it doesn’t have any power to come up with a factually correct solution, and rejecting that “middle ground” solution doesn’t make you per se unreasonable, hysterical, or unable to listen to reason.
I guess I must be more of a “radical” class of fat blogger more than I thought I was…
If someone wants to diet then yes, that IS their choice. If some fat activists don’t want to associate with people who think it is ok to diet then that is their choice too. Why are the non-dieters expected to be tolerant of someone’s choice to diet when the dieter isn’t tolerant of the non-dieter’s choice to disassociate from dieting?
And the whole “I am ok with you being fat, I just don’t want to be” smacks of thin being better. Why is it better? PQ says she can do things now she couldn’t do before. Did she even try to do them when she was fat?
She says she was “so fat” she hurt her knee. Well gee, no skinny person ever hurt their knee did they? Just like no skinny person ever needed their gall bladder out at a relatively young age.
Her answers are full of mixed messages. I think she seriously needs to reassess what she actually believes because what she is espousing is not an accepting attitude of fat people.
And I think PQ would find that she wasn’t being “judged” for her size by “extreme” fat activists, she was being judged for her attitude.
I have to say I was really impressed with how nice all of the FA commenters who posted here were. They pointed out the flaws in some of PQ’s comments, major ones being:
1. PQ focused on weight loss instead of being healthy. Improving excersize and diet for health would improve one’s quality of life the same as “losing weight” but one just just so much more socially acceptable.
2. Equating an innocuous change, from blond to brunette, with rejecting traits that make you part of an oppressed group is not the same. A more apt comparison is like Michael Jackson saying “Well it’s okay for YOU to be black, but it just wasn’t for me.”
Pointing out flaws in her arguments is not attacking her, nor is it being “scary.” Deal.
Also, to add some not very civil commentary, as I am really pissed. I edited out my curse words already tho.
Andrea, That was so rude. You must be really embarrassed!!!
My boyfriend is over 400lbs, and he is very healthy, he walks my dog every day, and we like to go camping. But in a way you ARE right, he can’t fly on southwest, ride rollercoasters. And we do have to watch where we sit at resturants, the only place he can buy clothes is Casual Male XL.
It’s not because everything is too small….. nooooo. But then… I don’t know whose fault it is, I mean it’s not my boyfriends fault that his thyroid only operates at 11% and that he is resistant to the medication. It’s not society’s fault, certainly, because society is ALWAYS RIGHT (see: interratial marriage, gay people, Germany 1930-1945). And So I guess it’s Mr. Nobody’s Fault. Curse you Mr. Nobody.
Also, Curse you Andrea, for your close mindedness and insensitivity.
Andrea, I don’t get it. Everything you just said is exactly, *exactly* the kind of stereotyping and fat-hatred that fat rights and FA activists are fighting to end – it’s exactly the message that’s blared by the media day in and day out, that we hear all the time and argue against. If you want to liken it to race for some reason, it’s more like a person of color saying, “Well I believe in rights and stuff for people of color, but I’m going to lighten my skin so I don’t have to be one of those people.” However there are valid reasons why we don’t normally liken this struggle to that of race – they aren’t exactly akin, and a lot of people do not appreciate comparing one type of prejudice against another. You might want to read up on that a little before doing it again.
“Good luck to you trying to be fat and happy and all I can say is even more good luck trying to make society accept you too.”
Since that is exactly what they/we are trying to do, thanks for wishing us luck, I guess. I suppose you’re not “one of those fat people.” Or not a fat acceptance advocate (well, that’s obvious.)
“Can you tell me that someone was born and weighed 400 lbs? wtf?”
Most people are born somewhere between 6 and 8 pounds, but I don’t see many people arguing that 8 pounds is a realistic setpoint for anyone who is older than a newborn.
By the way, have you ever read “She Dances On the Sand’s” “400 lb Strawman” series? Very enlightening. http://rioiriri.blogspot.com/2008/01/big-buts-part-two-400-lb-straw-man.html Except I’m pretty embarrassed for you to have said such things about 400 lb people (nice round numbers) because one of my dearest friend bloggers weighs almost that, and yes she’s healthy, thank you very much. I believe they told her she’d die of teh fatz within 5 years, and that was 30 years ago. (They say things like that so people will have surgery, not because it’s true.)
“If being fat was like such a not big problem why the hell do you bother excusing it then?”
That’s the point. Most advocates don’t believe they have anything to excuse or apologize for.
Well…like some have mentioned I find some of the comments extremely offensive too – but I think the “whiny,” “shrill,” “hysterical,” “rude,” and so forth accusations are meant to demean the fat advocates rather than the diet apologists. Why would advocates have to be demeaned for actually being…advocates, though, I just don’t know. It’s a hell of a shame though.
Oh, I forgot “envious.” People are objecting because they’re jealous. (Not because of objectionable language or ideas.) Wow. I’ve heard it all now.
Looks like Zilly covered a lot of this.
Bottom line, of course this is Mo’s blog, and PQ’s body is her own as well. I don’t think anyone has disputed that. They’ve questioned whether it has anything to do with fat acceptance or whether as fat advocates they agree with the message or not. Some people have made blatant fat-hating posts in the meantime, yet those who haven’t are called whiny, shrill, envious, mean, rude, etc. And they’re being fat at you. I guess if anything this all goes to show why there is a fat acceptance movement at all, and just how far there is to go.
Bri, you said:
And the whole “I am ok with you being fat, I just don’t want to be” smacks of thin being better.
I don’t see why it is interpreted that way. There are many people who don’t feel comfortable, either physically or emotionally, when they’re heavy. If they choose to lose weight and then they feel better about themselves, why does that matter to you? The fact that many other people who are heavy feel perfectly happy and confident and healthy, etc., is great. Why can’t both exist? A person who says, “I don’t feel comfortable being heavy so I want to lose weight, but if you feel comfortable being heavy than I say more power to you and your self confidence!” is in no way saying thin is better as a rule, just maybe for that one person. God, we’re all unique individuals; why do we refuse to accept that we’re going to feel differently about different things? And if that heavy person loses weight and feels better, and in NO WAY makes you feel that now you should jump on board, and in fact goes out of her way to say, “Hey, glad you’re happy as you are; rock on!” I truly don’t see the problem. I don’t see why FA get ANGRY at people who lose weight. It’s not a betrayal to some movement, it is simply a person trying to find a happier path. We all need and take different paths. Let people choose their own, as long as they’re not judging yours.
Some people are bewildered or annoyed at the level of anger in a number of the comments. Ghu knows why, but I’m going to take a crack at explaining:
I think every man and woman faces different challenges when it comes to weight loss. Some people are naturally thinner than others and don’t have to work as hard to be slender. Some battle eating disorders which can make it dangerous for them to try losing weight because they do so in ways that are harmful to their health. Some people just don’t have access to fresh fruits and vegetables and lean meats that are part of a healthy diet. These are aspects of our lives that we don’t control. However, we can all exert some control over our environment by choosing to exercise and to make the best eating choices available to us. So, I think weight loss is definitely possible, though it may be harder for some people than others, and potentially dangerous if they go about it in the wrong way.
The thing is, the effect that losing weight or trying to has on people’s quality of life varies tremendously. It’s not just that some people are naturally fatter than others (the other side of some people being naturally thinner) and have to work harder. It’s that a lot of people find that they’re cold, ill, and/or massively distracted by hunger they try push their weight lower than it wants to be. For a lot of people, it’s not just a question of whether losing weight is possible, it’s whether it’s conceivably worth the effort.
The cost of losing weight is mentioned in that paragraph, but the actual magnitude of cost for a lot of people is ignored.
Mary,
I don’t think FA activists get angry at people who do lose weight. I think they get angry at people who se weight loss as a valid goal. Being healthy, being active, eating well, these are valuable goals. And increasing ones overall health will likely help one feel comfortable physically at other weights. If one happens to lose wieght in one’s quest for a more active lifestyle or healthier (read intuitive, or incorporating wider varieties of food) eating then I don’t think anyone begrudges them that. People lose weight when they get sick too, FA activists are not going to start yelling at cancer patients for their thin physique. It is weight loss as a goal that is offensive.
You mention emotional discomfort as well as physical discomfort. Let me just say, emotional discomfort is the problem. The emotional discomfort does not come from Teh Fatz on your body. It comes from society TELLING you there is somethign wrong with the fat being on your body. They tell you it’s ugly, it’s shameful, it’s going to make you drop dead at any moment. And I feel emotionally uncomfortable every day for some reason or another, my solution is not to starve myself.
I was freely admitting that the emotional discomfort was something that some people feel they need to address through weight loss, and that, conversely, many in the FA movement who feel perfectly comfortable at their weight and see no need to equate weight loss with being more comfortable in their own skin are to be admired (see my “rock on!” comment). GOOD for those who love themselves fully, heavy or not. Sorry to tell you that many people don’t. And no, it’s not necessarily just because society tells those people they’re not worthy. Not every person who goes on a diet is under the Fat Is Bad spell. It’s a PERSONAL thing, that was my point. Some people actually feel better when they’re thinner. My point was, who cares? What harm does that to do anyone? We should all be encouraged to find our happiness. And not everyone who loses weight tries to get scary skinny or doesn’t take care of their bodies just so they can be a few pounds lighter. Many people who lose weight never get any where near skinny. I don’t read PQ’s site often, but I’ve browsed there. She looks great, but hey, she’s not skinny. I think she hovers around 170-180 or something? She eats well, exercises, and most importantly, she is HAPPY. Anyway, that was my whole point. If losing some weight makes someone feel better, even if you think they shouldn’t equate being thinner and being happier, if it works for THEM, then just live and let live, you know?
Mary,
There is no actual reason for someone in a vaccum to feel sad, or emotionally upset about being overweight. It is simply a normal biological process that our body engages in to store excess calories against future need. It’s like someone feeling sad about putting money in a savings account. It is not a rational thing to feel sad about.
People who “just feel bad” but think they haven’t bought in to society’s “fat is bad” construction are deluding themselves with believing they haven’t bought in to society’s bullshit. And you know what, I know all about society’s bullshit and I feel bad every time I look too closely at my belly. Some days I actually cry because I feel hideous.
But my response is not to go on a diet. Because I know that trying to lose weight will only make me feel more miserable as I try and fail and try and fail. I know that what I am feeling is not rational, it is based on what society has told me. That doesn’t make the feelings go away, but it does keep me from hurting myself to make myself acceptable to other people.
Society makes people feel like failures for allowing their body to engage in this PERFECTLY NORMAL biological process. People don’t just happen to feel bad when they gain weight. That is not actually part of the biological process.
You can continue to think I’m wrong about this but that will not make it so.
Mo, thanks for this converation. No movement is a monolith, and you’ve always been open about this being a site that does welcome diet talk.
And, maybe, shame on us for being a little too tender to see a dissenting view without being able to self-differentiate.