How Do Strangers Treat You?
I’ve read a lot of blogs and books and heard a lot of anecdotal evidence from people who have lost weight, especially a great deal of weight, talking about the radical difference in how they are treated when they’re fat versus when they’re thin. (You also hear this from celebrities who have put on and taken off fat suits.) The other day I was doing an informal interview and I was asked about this issue. I never know how to answer this inevitable question—it seems like people want to hear how horribly I am treated every day, on the street, by strangers, as a fat person. Not even isolated incidents of hate, but that general sense of “invisibility” that so many people talk about—invisibility that melts away once the fat is gone.
The truth is, I told the interviewer, I don’t see it. I’m an outgoing, friendly, confident person, and that might be part of it. I smile at people like a lunatic; I make eye contact; I flirt. And in return, people are basically nice to me. Is it because I put out a positive energy, and get positive energy back? Is it because I’ve always been overweight, and I have a different standard—that I don’t know what it’s like to be treated in this magically cool, non-invisible way that’s supposed to exist for thin people? I finally speculated that it’s because I live in the San Francisco area, a notoriously accepting place. The people who live here don’t care if you’re fat, thin, queer, transgendered, mentally ill, or even a hippie. So of course they’re nice to me. But is that even true?
So tell me… fat, thin, formerly fat, formerly thin, whatever, I’m dying to know. How do people treat you? Or have you observed this phenomenon in action? Do you think there’s a difference between how fat people and thin people are treated? And if so, what specifically does that mean? Because for whatever reason, I just can’t relate, and I just don’t understand.
Posted by mo pie
I have definitely been ignored by strangers, but I’m coming to realize that most of the time most people are ignored by strangers. We walk around with blinders on a lot of the time.
The times when it feels like it’s more about weight is when I’ve been ignored by staff people in sporting goods/outdoor stores. I sort of wonder if they are just not used to the fat chick coming in and wanting hiking boots, etc. (of course, then I ask ackward questions, like why aren’t there plus sized hiking pants in your store, that make them want to run away - I see it in their eyes.)
Although I agree that the Bay Area is much more accepting, I do still see the thin=healthy cult alive and well in a lot of ways here. That can be frustrating.
My one observation about all of this is that the more I moved out into the world and started to actually live a life that I wanted, the less inclined I was to perceive that I was being ignored.
I think it’s everything. I live in western MI, where, for the most part, people are freakishly friendly. It was unnerving when I moved here at 18, and that was only from Cincinnati, so there shouldn’t have been a lot of culture shock. But up here everyone is, at least on the surface, really nice and outgoing. I also wasn’t really fat until after college, so I don’t think I act in social situations the same way I would if I had grown up fat, because people are much more cruel when you’re younger. And I think it depends on how many of your interactions every day are with people who you don’t know, and if those people would be rude, out loud, to anyone. If you see the same people at the coffee place, on the bus, wherever, they are more likely to see you as a person. And if you are dealing with a group of, say, young guys on the street, who would call out rude comments to “hot” women, they are more likely to call out rude comments to whomever is drawing their attention for whatever reason. If you are dealing with groups of formal business women, they may think horrible things about you, but chances are they will be polite and even kind to your face and in public, because that’s how they act regardless.
Also, it depends on how you look all around- when I am showered, with nice hair, makeup, in a suit, I am treated better (subtly) than if I am on my way home from the gym and am dirty and in sweats. I think this is true no matter what you weight, but it’s worse if people think you are not just fat, but fat, lazy, and maybe stupid or unemployed rather than fat, pretty, and working. How fat you are mixes in with that too.
I think a lot of it is how you act, but that most people act in accordance with how they have been treated.
Ultimately- there are hundreds of variables, and the variables themselves aren’t really that different for how fat is treated than for how gender, race, or anything else is treated. Fat is more socially acceptable as a target, and people who wouldn’t otherwise react with fear based hatred might because while no one is afraid their race, gender, sexual orientation, etc will change, people might be afraid they will “catch” the fat.
If you are treated well most of the time, you might not notice more subtle discrimination, but if you are treated poorly most of the time, or are looking for discrimination, you’ll notice it more often.
I don’t mean for this to sound like how the discriminated person acts is what determines how they’re treated, but it is a factor, and is already related to how they’ve been treated in the past. It’s all a big bunch of twisted actions, perceptions, truth, fear, and variables.
Wow, sorry. That was a lot.
A lot of times I just plain ol’ forget that I’m fat, mostly because I feel so good physically. The most grief I feel about it is from the media or from clothing retailers, but on a day to day basis I don’t have a lot of problems.
When I was single in my 20s, I had no problem going up to men who were, frankly, hotter and more interesting than me, and getting dates. I’m fairly outgoing and have an interesting personality. I’m well read and talkative. I have a lot of friends. I get great service at restaurants and in most stores. My interactions with most non-medical people are great. However, I get a lot of drive by sniping, and I’ve had men sit down at the table with me in cafeterias and fast food restaurants, and openly stare at me as I eat, either to “shame” me into not eating, or because they were getting a sexual kick out of watching a fat chick eat.
I have a lot of very thin friends, and we get about the same level of body comments. However, their comments are more likely to be couched in true concern wheras mine are more likely to be couched in shame or disgust.
I, too, don’t feel treated any differently when encountering strangers, so I don’t have much to add on that note. But, I will add that I don’t think the celebrities wearing fat-suits shows them what it’s like to be fat; it shows them what it’s like to be not famous. When Gwyneth Paltrow wears a fat suit down to the bar, she is ignored not necessarily because she is fat, but because she’s not Gwyneth Paltrow, and she’s used to being a famous celebrity who is fawned over constantly. I’m not saying that differential treatment doesn’t exist, just that the fat suit phenomenon is probably about more than being fat.
The ONLY time I ever experienced this at my heavier weight (250 lbs) was in the area of men, dating, sex, romantic relationships, etc. I never got hit on. I was internet dating and wasn’t forthcoming about my weight, so guys would lose REAL interest as soon as they saw me. The kicker was, often they actually liked me for my personality, humor, brains, etc… and even WERE attracted to me (enough to sleep with anyway), but then would bolt at the idea of anything real. I often wonder how much of that was a result of not wanting the stigma of dating a fat girl.
Now, much slimmer but still by no means skinny (185 lbs), I get a lot more male attention. I get hit on a lot, and I’m dating now for the first time in 4+ years, and I can’t tell you what a wonderful experience it has been compared to when I was heavier.
BUT - I was also in my early 20s when I was dating last time, and now I’m in my early 30s. I’ve got a pseudo-marriage under my belt, and really have my shit together… so maybe it’s not the weight, but the maturity and self-awareness that comes with time. Who knows.
I’ve never noticed being treated differently, I do tend to ignore people in public places (not entirely wanting to meet new people) but have not noticed a lack of service. I tend to ask for what I want.
I felt like fat sometimes made me invisible when I was younger, but at other times it drew attention to me. Once I hit around 35 though, I do think I became officially invisible when out in public. I think age more than weight can do that to you- but maybe being fat made it happen for me at a younger age than some.
A couple things have changed. I attract a much better-looking calibur of man now (at my heaviest, I would generally attract men who were severely obese, much more so than me). Also, my natural shyness when I first meet someone is interpreted differently. It used to be “poor shy fat girl”, and now it’s “standoffish pretty girl”, so has been misinterpreted to be a lack of interest or hautiness instead of just plain shyness. Lastly, my relative attractiveness and looks are discussed regularly in casual conversation, as a given, whereas before the sheer fact of my overweight-ness was generally ignored as the pink elephant in the room.
Mo, you should also include the people who have shared anecdotally in this space that they have received unwanted attention after they have lost weight (catcalls, whistles, etc.). Some people have actually expressed a preference for being “invisible” as when they were heavier. Kelly touched on that slightly.
I guess I have never been fat enough (thin enough?) to be treated differently in any significant way.
I think it’s a what you put out and get in return for me.
I’m from the Bay Area (San Jose), I’ve also lived in NE, Central Oregon, the Willamette Valley in Oregon, VA, OH and now NM. In all those places I’ve been “fat” but I’ve also been outgoing and friendly, smile at EVERYONE (in NE everyone even waves at cars they pass on the road if you know them or not) and generally get a good response in return.
The fat phobic episodes in my life a few and mostly doctors office related. I kinda get the impression I’ve been lucky enough to spend most of my life near people who have enough brains to not spout off about my fat arse. :o)
I can’t offer any real personal input here, being an athletic and (apparently) good-looking guy.
My girlfriend, on the other hand, is definitely fat. But she’s also beautiful, outgoing, funny, interesting, has a distinctive style, etc. And she gets the exact opposite of ignored. In fact, it isn’t too rare that some guy will transparently come on to her before (or even after) she mentions that she has a boyfriend. We live in Halifax, Nova Scotia, which I’m generally told is a friendly city, so that might make a difference. I also get the sense that there’s a lot more discrimination in the US (not that we don’t have any here).
I can’t say that I wake up every morning thrilled to be fat. But if there is something that I am truly grateful for, for which I can thank my fat, it’s this: My fat lets me see who people really are. It’s my x-ray vision.
I go out with friends who are thinner than I am, and I see how some salespeople can be more attentive to them, more friendly to them, than to me. I see some of my thinner friends get more dates than I do. And I don’t think it’s too much of a stretch to use fat to explain some of those differences.
But this means that there’s less hypocracy in my world than in theirs. When I’m treated well by someone I feel that there’s a greater chance that I’m being treated well because that person is kind, or because they like me, than that they are acting nice to someone only because s/he meets their standards for attractiveness.
This is not to say that everyone who is kind to a thin person is shallow, but there are those people who are only kind to people they consider “pretty”, people who are thin. And thanks to my fat, those people reveal themselves to me in a way that they don’t reveal themselves to the thin.
At one time I was prescribed a medication that supposedly could cause significant weight loss as a side effect (note: It did not). The bottle sat unopened on my kitchen counter for several days before I decided to start taking it. I was genuinely hesitant to take it if it meant that, through losing my weight, I might lose what I think is a clearer, more honest view of the world. I like that point of view. I value it. And I value the fact the fat that gave me that perspective.
I’ve been fat most of my life, and I haven’t noticed being treated differently since I was in elementary school. I think I only got made fun of for being fat a couple times in junior high and high school…I guess I was always just well-liked or something. Though I never, ever had boyfriends.
The biggest difference is definitely male attention. This isn’t to say I never get dates, I do, but it’s not as easy. And I don’t get hit on with anywhere near the frequency of my thinner friends. I’m a pretty girl though, so maybe it’s just easier for girls with the “such a pretty face” thing going on? I also am very friendly and outgoing, and that definitely has something to do with it.
I once got down to about 175, I was a size 10 or 12 and DEFINITELY got a lot more male attention. As well as constant praise for losing all that weight. But those were really the only differences.
That being said, while no one shouts actual insults at me from moving cars, I am frequently “WHOOOO”ed at from them, and I almost always assume that they are making fun of the fat chick exercising, not catcalling the hottie. But that could just be my internal feeligns on it…
I do think putting out friendly vibes will help in getting them in return. I smile and make eye contact with people, and I find most of them will at least smile back. (And I’m in the “morbidly obese” category.) However, I do find there are places I can’t get waited on. (There are some major department stores where I will no longer shop because I’ve stood there with hands full of merchandise and been ignored… or directed to “things that would be more your size.”) People who are determined to be difficult will look at one, and their eyes just kind of slide away.
I do think if I weren’t proactively friendly, I could be generally ignored in public - but more in the way that homeless people are ignored. There are always the negative catcallers, and the sympathetic smilers… but being ignored is the default.
Personally, I’ve been very lucky, and have always been treated well, regardless of situation. I was a fat kid, and generally also a “new” kid because we moved around so often…but I don’t ever remember being teased for any reason (with one exception in high school that I quickly squished with a smart mouth and a little physical intimidation). I wasn’t a popular girl by any stretch (too fat, too smart, too poor, wore too much flannel), but I was even a class officer.
These days (at almost 30, 5′9″ and well over 300 pounds), I have very few encounters with active, personal fat hate. I get good customer service (is it because I’m friendly and smiley and make eye contact? maybe.), and I’ve never felt invisible (I’m kinda loud and hard to ignore). It’s been my experience that I get just as much attention as my thin or less-fat friends, if not more.
How much is perception and mindset? I dunno. I do know that I’ve always been fat, and I’ve rarely felt like anyone treated me differently because of it. I feel really lucky because of that.
You can’t always know why people react to you the way they do…in fact, it’s hard to know. When I’m in a tight space, like a bus, I feel pretty confident that I know what people are thinking about me and why they don’t sit by me regardless if there’s enough room. Teenagers and kids are more likely to publicly make fun of me. At a campground after I’d taken a shower and was waiting outside for my friend, two fairly young kids chided me. At a beach my fat sister and I were looking for shells and drunken teenage/twenty-something women made fun of us. I am about 300 and my sister was about 250 at the time.
Adults are less obvious…they’ve learned what’s socially appropriate. So they may not chide me, but they almost surely judge me. If they treat me differently, how am I to know why? Unless I have some background that they are particularly sizist (since most people are generally sizist) or it is obvious…which in some cases I do or it is.
That’s where it gets tricky because we are told most of our lives that that’s the number one reason anyone would treat you badly…that’s why you SHOULD be treated badly. And I don’t doubt that there are occasions where I’m treated badly for that reason.
More often I’m probably ignored and the absence of something is harder to register. The way in which I’m ignored that bothers me the most comes in sizist and anti-obesity and anti-fat comments people make ALL THE TIME. And in that sense, it’s not that I’m treated differently, it’s that they don’t even THINK about how that affects me. I’m not even a consideration. And if they do censor themselves, it’s not because they care about me but because they know how I feel and want to avoid conflict.
I’ve put on a few pounds recently, and I’m pretty sure I’m noticing a different attitude from men I deal with. They seem to be less interested in carrying on conversations with me beyond the bare minimum necessary to communicate, whether they’re guys I’ve known for years that I see at parties, clerks in stores, or the professor in a science class I’m taking right now. I definitely get the feeling that many men think there’s no reason for me or any other woman to exist unless we look fuckable. Some of that could be coming from my poorer self-image, but not all of it, I’m pretty sure.
I have been heavy most of my life, but there was a phase a few years ago where I’d lost a significant portion of weight. I hate to be the nay-sayer, but people did treat me much better at that point. What really struck me is how much happier children (we’re talking little ones, like toddlers and younger) were to see me. Which makes me wonder how much of this is deeply ingrained in us.
Many of you hit the nail on the head: what you put out there is what you get back. It’s attitude more than anything else, I think, that determines how others treat us. As far as the issue of perceived invisibility, girls, just WAIT ’til you hit middle age or, as I like to think of it, until middle age hits YOU.
At 40, I was 255 lbs, a size 24, dating & socializing like mad. One male friend called me the biggest flirt he’d ever met. I never had a negative reaction, at least not overtly, from any male in whom I was interested. Fade out…fade in 20 years later. At 59 and a raw-boned size 16, still preceded by a VERY large bosom (you’d think guys would still notice), it’s like someone dropped Harry Potter’s invisibility cloak right over my head. The minute that first silver thread or teensy crow’s foot shows up, the game is over. Despite the millions of baby boomers aging right along with me and all the cosmetics ads touting beauty beyond age 25, middle age might as well be called the Dark Ages where we seem to fade into the shadows. Fat, thin or in between, our culture’s worship of youth is the greatest enemy out there. So, while you’ve still got youth on your side, put some ATTITUDE out there! Look people in the eye, smile, flirt and GO FOR IT, because trust me, it’s not going to last forever.
Of course, there IS that little movie in my head of hordes of lovely, sexy fat old ladies marching into REALLY old age as seductively as they approached age 30 or 40. Hey - we can all dream, can’t we?
At a size 22 I can’t say I’ve ever really felt that this is the case, but I might also have always been attributing any problems to the other person. If they don’t serve me or ignore my attempts to be friendly, I assume they’re just rude people or in a really foul mood. I tend to have problems in electronics stores but after seeing what they do when I’m there with a man, any man, I’m inclined to think that’s from being a woman, rather than from my size. So I just charge over to the first salesperson who looks available and pin them down to help me.
As for strangers in general, I also tend to be very smiley and friendly. I have trouble striking up more than the most cursory conversation, but deeper conversation isn’t necessary for most daily encounters. Smiles and eye contact cover the rest for me.
I do get hit on by men, usually black or hispanic men, which I’m assuming is because those cultures aren’t as fat-phobic. (I’m white as white can be.) In fact, my only serious relationship before my boyfriend was with a hispanic man.
Really the only awkwardness I’ve noticed that I feel sure is related to my size is with men who are worried I might be interested in them. This includes everyone from sales and service people to random strangers. I see that wary, guarded look in their eyes in response to my usual smile and eye contact, and have to stifle the urge to roll my eyes in reply. I expected this to happen less once I got engaged and started wearing my engagement ring, and it has to some extent, but not as much as I’d hoped. I don’t know if they don’t see the ring - maybe they assume the fatso couldn’t possibly be taken, or must be looking to trade up to a real man with standards…at which point I have to remind myself that maybe they’re just rude, so quit overanalyzing and move on.
In the past 10 years I’ve gone from thin and conventionally attractive, to a little chubby, to fat, and I definately feel more invisible now, mostly to men. When I was thin, men went out of their way to be friendly to me, and I got hit on a lot. Now… not so much. Which was hard on my self-esteem at first, especially when I went to the bar with my thin and beautiful sister and there were guys all over her and I was completely ignored. Now that I’m happily partnered, it’s not so bad. I’m generally a very reserved person, so I actually prefer not having men strike up random conversations with me, and I definately prefer not being crudely hit on. The interesting thing though is this started long before I got genuinely fat. I started becoming invisible once I reached a size 10 and was almost completely so by the time I reached a size 12. Although, that may have been a confidence issue (I was very unhappy with the way I looked at those points).
I think different parts of the country definitely behave differently. When I was in Los Angeles, I was ignored, even though I’m 5′9′ and, at the time, weighed 150. Now I’m in the Bay Area, weigh about 168, and have been hired as a fitness instructor (which NEVER would have happened when I was in L.A., or even New York City).
I wasn’t fat growing up; that came later with dieting (trying to get into a lower weight class for a sport), then having children. I have never felt picked on IRL, except maybe one time about 40 lbs ago where some guy drove past me on the street, yelling “Lose some weight!” (I was fat then, too, but not so much as now.) I just went, Huh, wtf? Now I’m considerably heavier, and haven’t had that kind of negative experience again, although you never know, with so much fat-hatred being stirred up these days.
Although I’m married and not “in the market” so to speak, men still do flirt with me, stare appreciatively, etc. (I am middle-aged, too.)
Perhaps some of it is because I grew up in a large East Coast city at a time where if you didn’t project a confident persona out on the street, you possibly could get mugged. So maybe that comes off as sexual/ personal confidence today.
Hi, Kelly: you wrote, re: weight loss, A couple things have changed. I attract a much better-looking calibur of man now (at my heaviest, I would generally attract men who were severely obese, much more so than me)…
I can understand having a personal preference such that you would not want to date really fat men (everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes), but I do cringe a bit at the phrase, “better-looking caliber.” For some women (me, if I were single, for one), those *would* be the men they would choose; the men they would find beautiful and desirable.
I am fat and age 62. Over the last year, I have let my hair go gray. It’s actually a nice silver color.
Anyway, I have experienced the “invisibility” factor, especially after age fifty. Nevertheless, it seems that now that my hair is gray, my fatness is seen as not quite as bad. It almost seems that because I’m out of the running as a young person, it matters less that I am not a thin person.
Im glad to hear you say this because Ive never noticed it either. Ive ben over weight for the last ten years and I really dont think peopel have been rude.
In college, the first time I went to Victoria’s secret (back when I fit the biggest sizes they had in the stores still), I was looking for some sexy lengerie –I said this to the saleslady (when my friend who went with me and I had gotten one’s attention), and was taken firmly over to the terry-cloth bathrobes.
I’ve been ignored by sales clerks. I’ve also had things yelled at me on the street. On the whole, I’d find invisibility preferable.
And I’m a smile-at-people-on-the-street kind of person, too. That hasn’t protected me.
I lost about 15-20 pounds a few years ago and was treated differently by my friends. I have a very good friend who lost a substantial amount of weight, became instantly popular with people — everyone wanted to hang out with her — and when she started gaining back some of the weight, they basically froze her out. We’re talking people near 30.
That said, I’m not necessarily treated horribly because of my weight and it doesn’t bother me when I am ignored because I hate being noticed. I think a lot of it has to do with geography, I think some of it has to do with personality.
I’m with you, Mo. I live in the Bay Area and I never seem to have a hard time in public. People are always nice to me. I feel confused when I hear about other people being treated badly because of their weight. I’m not small or even close, either! I’m under five feet and over 200.
People do always try to give me diet sodas in restaurants, even when I order regular. Does that count?
I also work in a profession that you would think would be weighted (hah!) against fat people. Park rangers are supposed to be big, tall, strong men (in my dreams…). I work with lots of short fat chicks and we rock the parks.
In the past 6 years, I have lost more than 25% of my body weight, going from a big size 16 to a size 6 (I’m a bit above average for height). I do think that the way I’m treated by strangers has changed — I get more “appreciative” looks and catcalls on the street. I’ve actually been stopped by strangers and told how nice I look. When I try on clothes at stores, strangers comment unbidden on how good things look. When I tried on wedding dresses, the salesclerks fawned over me, and asked me to try on new dresses so that they could see how they looked, while ignoring the prob. size 20 girl next to me.
I don’t worry about how I will appear to a potential employer when I show up to an interview. When I race, I don’t think that my shape surprises those around me (though I posted on Shapely Prose that I still fear the comments of passersby when I’m wearing shorts). Like spinsterwitch commented above, this is maybe most the case in “outdoorsy” type things when extreme fitness is expected (and expected to be reflected in your body). I recently went on a 4-day mountain hike with a group of people I didn’t know, and it was odd to have them look at me and expect me to be fit.
All that said, my shape doesn’t change most of my important interactions. I agree very much with the posters who say that personality has much more to do with it. I’m still the shy-ish person I was before. I still have the same friends I had before. It still takes me a long time to warm up to people I don’t know — maybe that comes from how I was treated for most of my formative years when I was in a heavier body. The things that have changed are mostly comments from co-workers and the like about how I’m the “healthy one” or the “thin one”, which I find very strange. It’s also interesting to hear a person who didn’t know me when I was fatter talk about weight or exercise or comment that I have it easy in those areas.
Oh, and a doctor still suggested that I exercise more (I run 4x/week) or lose weight when I developed high blood pressure (probably in response to birth control pills). My BMI? 21.5. Go figure.
I believe that the commenters here are all well intentioned — this is one of the safest places on the web for us sizable people. That said, I’d ask that those of you who haven’t had negative interactions with strangers consider what you’re suggesting when you credit that to your own positive attitude, to putting out a good energy that you then get back. If that’s the case, then you are (I think unintentionally) telling those of us who have had negative experiences that we have somehow failed to put out enough positive attitude. That the public’s reactions to us are our own fault. I don’t think this is what you mean, but it’s one way that your comments could be read.
I don’t think I had time to project any attitude at all to the cars full of college boys who’ve barked like dogs, or mooed like cows, when they’ve driven by me while I’m out exercising. But then again, I’m sure they were only concerned about my health! ;-)
I will reiterate, though, that as unpleasant as negative interactions with strangers can be, I feel privileged that by acting like jerks to me these people reveal their true selves, and let me know who is worth MY attention, and who isn’t.
Though I was confident when I was about 40 pounds heavier, I was absolutely invisible.
People were never mean or anything, but I was just never noticed. I have gone from a 12 back to a 4, and now, people seem to notice that I am there.
It’s a change I find disturbing, since I was exactly the same person when I was heavy as I am now that I am not.
I’ve never posted to this site but I’ve read for a while now. It’s been a big help because of my own weight issues which are VERY new to me. Not to mention I spent my entire teen years getting into trouble with none other than Mo herself so I enjoy reading the witty thoughts I grew up on and remembering my days spent with Mo!
I couldn’t agree with Mo more! It really is about attitude! I am an average sized women and I think I’m a pretty good looking chick! However, I am a formerly extremely thin person (size 0-2). I am one of those people who have an insane metabolism but once I hit 30 it slowed by quite a lot. It was a strange thing to deal with and it’s been a really big struggle. The worst part about my struggle is peoples perception of me. I knew Mo through my mid-teens into my early 20’s very well and she can vouch for me, EVERY where I went people thought I was an actress or model or something. People definitely treated me differently! Once I gained weight no one payed attention to me when I walked in the door and no one asked me why I looked familiar, or if I was an actress. I was just another face in the crowd.
However, I realized just recently that this really had nothing to do with my weight, I’m the same size (and a couple of inches taller) than the rest of the women in America so it’s not like there’s anything that made me stand out in the crowd. That was it though really, now instead of standing out, I just blended and I wasn’t used to it.
A few weeks ago my boyfriend (who’s a musician) had a gig and it was at a venue that I used to spend a lot of time at so I felt very comfortable. I walked straight in smiled and felt in general like it was my playing field rather than someone else’s. I noticed people reacting to me like they used to. I got more smiles, I got friendlier responses from people who worked at the venue and you know what? I hadn’t magically dropped 30 pounds, I was just myself. I was comfortable in my skin and with who I was and that old person was back just in a slightly different body. When you’re confident, people wonder why and want to know more about you, it’s intriguing and extremely attractive. Especially in a town (LA) where everyone around you uses materialism to gauge their confidence. When you don’t have a need for the materialistic and you are just happy with you, you automatically stand out. It turns out it wasn’t peoples perception of me, it was just my perception of me.
I found almost no difference (if any at all, honestly) in how people treated me between “morbidly obese” and “normal”–if, that is, they were strangers. I got treated reasonably well, fat, thin and fat once again. I am in general not lacking for romantic or any other kind of attention.
However, and this is a VERY big however, people who knew me when I was losing weight knew what an “amazing” and “inspiring” thing I had done and praised me like I’d fucking cured cancer. That messed me up, to be frank. No one cared that I had been a good student (or anything else)–and they didn’t care that my extreme weight loss strategies sent my grades into the toilet and made my hair fall out (among other lovely side effects). They only cared that I was so “pretty.” That taught me a lot about what matters in a person’s (read: woman’s) value and it’s taken me a long time to unlearn that.
One of the things that helped with that is that (after age 25 or so) I really didn’t get much negative attention for being fat–personally, that is. Of course, culturally I get negative messages all the time.
I think in general I am the same as you, Mo. I am a very outgoing, vocal and friendly person. I think people just respond to something that is friendly. I don’t feel ignored in public in general, but I do feel ignored by men when I go out with friends, etc. I think the only places I feel ignored or treated not the same as others is in the area of clothing….I feel sort of ignored in non”plus size” stores. As if I couldn’t possibly be buying something for someone else……
Having said that though, I have not been without the blatant rude comment in public about my weight. I think my personality and drive to be successful/professional shielded me from the fact that adults are sometimes just as big of assholes as children. (somehow I think i got it in my head that after high school things changed, I don’t think they did, i think I did) A few months ago I was walking down the street to my car wearing my snow boots (winter in E. Washington state.) and a big winter coat bundled to my chin and car pulled up at a stop light and a guy leaned out and said “excuse me” in the tone that indicated he needed directions, and when I turned to help him (see above, I am friendly) he yelled “THAT’S A HUGE BITCH!” and sped off. I am nearing 30 and I went home and cried myself to sleep.
So I guess I’m saying, I don’t know if people make fun of skinnies in public, but I don’t see it happen a lot. I don’t think i’d say I’m ignored but for some reason it seems it’s ok to blatantly yell insults at a fat person.
Hey, O.C. I agree with you.
I think I tend to get better service at restaurants and shops and stuff in general than a lot of (thinner) people I know because I’m pretty outgoing and friendly and respectful. It’s not related to my weight at all.
All the positive attitude in the world doesn’t defend against jerks and drive by insults, though. And if my earlier comment sounds at all like I’m blaming bad experiences on negative attitude, it’s because I mis-spoke and wasn’t clear.
I’m 5′9 and 330+. I’m fat. There’s no missing me when I walk down the street, unless I’m in NYC.
As a fat adult, I have never been publicly harassed by strangers. I did get the “you go girl!” when a woman saw me power walking, but I wasn’t offended. I walk to walk, not for weight loss. Maybe it’s because I look mean. I tend not to overly smile unless I’m approached in a friendly way. I look pretty focused.
As for men, well when I was hit on, it’s been guys in their late 40s on up, and skinny. Maybe my fat makes them feel safe. Who knows? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see plenty of big gals like me with men and women by their side. The media ingrains us to be disgusted by fat, but not everyone believes the message.
I’ve had weight issues all my life, terrible low self-esteem and lack of confidence. But I was always kind and good natured. In my 20’s, I lost about 30 lbs., I didn’t act differently, but I was getting more attention from strangers and my own family. Men were approaching me, my family was approving of the way I looked. I eventually gained the weight back, met a great guy had two kids and I kept gaining weight. I tried to lose weight again and once coworkers, family were noticing and saying how nice I looked and that they are really proud of me?!! It freaked me out. Those comments made me feel as if I wasn’t good enough before but because I lost a couple pounds I was becoming more acceptable in their eyes.
I’ve always had about the same, athletic-to-average so no help there, but I’ve noticed one huge factor that affects how people treat me: how feminine I look. I normally don’t wear any makeup, I either have my hair loose and messy or up in a ponytail, and I usually wear jeans and a shirt baggy enough to hide my Rack O’ Doom™. BUT occasionally I’ll wear a skirt and makeup and actually brush my hair, and I’m amazed at how much nicer people are to me. It pisses me off; I’m sure as hell not going to start subverting my identity and being all femme just because people would smile at me more, but it makes me wonder how different things might be if I did.
The flip side of that is I feel like I have to avoid looking too feminine - i.e. hiding the really quite impressive boobage - because I worry that if I don’t, I could be accused of being handed opportunities that I don’t deserve, of “getting by on my looks.”
It’s ridiculous that I simultaneously feel like I’m not pretty enough and that I have to be on guard against unfair advantages like that but that’s how it is.
I have noticed a distinct difference in the attention I get from males. When I was skinny, I got tons. Now that I’m not, I get zippo. I am not aware of acting any differently, but it may be a subconsious thing on my part.
Ironically enough, I pay much more attention to my outward appearance than I ever did while thin. I take the time to do my hair and makeup. I take the time to shop for clothes that flatter me and accentuate the positives. When I was skinny, it was jeans, t-shirt, and ponytail 90% of the time.
As a result, I have come to the conclusion that if you are fit and relatively thin, you can dress however you want and guys respond. But if you’re far, don’t expect compliments on the time you take to make yourself look nice.
You know, I re-read this just now and realized it says /strangers/. I’m having a really off day. The worst treatment I receive from strangers is from random guys who feel the need to inform me that I have a fat ass or really just takes place in my head — I /imagine/ what everyone is saying about me, even though they’re not even paying attention to me.
I didn’t feel bad about myself at 225 lbs. I still got attention, had lots of friends and had men flirting with me. I didn’t have problems getting dates, etc.
I lost close to 90 lbs. and everything changed. Men would offer to pump my gas, guys were hanging out of cars, doors were held open always, people offered to pay for my food, Starbucks, bar tabs, movie tickets, it was crazy. I got stopped all the time by people commenting on my outfits, hair, makeup, car; it was like the twilight zone. It never felt normal or real. I was treated better in restaurants, sales associates immediately approached me in stores…I never in a million years thought it would be that drastic of a difference.
I have since gained 40 lbs. back and it’s now how it was when I was 225. Normal. I go back and forth in the thought process. Was I projecting more confidence? Or are people just conditioned to treat thin people differently?
I am a GREAT BIG Flirt… I have a co-wroker who says I am a skinny girl trapped in a BIG girl’s boby… I have found my inner skinny person…. I live in TN and I don’t see people treating me any different than they do the skinny girls. Maybe it is because I too am confident, freindly and smile like a looney-toon at folks. I have always believed, that if you don’t Love yourself, noone else is gonna love ya…(input southern twang)…
I think that people treat you the way that youpresent yourself. If you walk around with your shoulders hunched over then yes, people will say ” She/He is fat”. If you walk around with your head held high and your shoulders back (let them girls resent themselves) then people are less likely to make snide remarks. That’s my opinon….
I really don’t think that confidence level has anything to do with harrassment, especially of the yelling-out-fat-bitch-from-cars variety. In order to experience that one nearly needs to be a woman, and not even a fat one, just one who isn’t pleasing the yeller in some way shape or form.
Personally, I get the occassional catcall, but it has (thankfully) been a long time since someone has done anything to me about by fat. I have it easier than some because I’m young and I’m not really bad looking, two things which give me a little break. I also don’t look like I weigh as much as I do, which helps even more.
However in terms of positive attention? Yeah, I don’t really get much of that either. While I am asked if I need help in stores, no one goes out of their way to help me; the same goes for restaurants. And while I get catcalls sometimes (which really are not at all positive experiences for me), it is beyond rare for a man to pay any particuliar attention to me in public. Just yesterday, I was sitting on the bus (which has stopped in the bus stop), smiling to myself because I was enjoying the song I was listening to, when I made eye contact with a guy walking by. After the moment of eye contact, he changed his expression ever so slightly, as if he didn’t even see me. Now this could be me being paranoid. It could be that he was trying to be a stereotypical New Yorker. Or it could be that the pretty girl who he just made eye contact would, in his mind, be prettier if she lost 40lbs. While the first and second choices are likely, I somehow doubt he would have pretended he didn’t see me if I wore a 6 instead of a 16.
Here I was starting to think I was a weirdo. I hear all these stories about how people get shouted in the street or made fun of. Or even how people make rude comments to women when they are obviously not full of belly fat but instead baby.
Not that I’ve ever had a kidlet, but outside of one really minor incident in junior high no one has ever directed any of that hate toward me. I’m sure some of it I might not see, but I spend most of my time at work coming in contact with complete strangers.
I get most often that I should get a man to load someone’s car. I finally told one elderly man that were short on people, this (female) associate will load your car or I’ll load your car cause you are out of options*smile*. Outside of those types of situations I mostly get told I’m cute or pretty and I’m a size 22, so its not even like I’m “borderline” fat. I’m firmly in the short and fat category.
I’m nice to people and I assume that they will return the favor. Retail has yet to beat this idea out of me.
I know though that I grew up in a really accepting house hold. My mom never went around dieting or talking about how she hated herself so I never learned to hate myself. I never even knew I was fat until someone in junior high told me I was - most likely to raise his own self-esteem. So when I interact with people I don’t even think about things with regards to how big I am or how thin someone else might be. I worry about it now and then and have down moments, but when I’m out in the world being myself I forget all that and just be me. I’ve never been criticized for it.
“As a result, I have come to the conclusion that if you are fit and relatively thin, you can dress however you want and guys respond. But if you’re far, don’t expect compliments on the time you take to make yourself look nice.”
If only. I’m just under 30 (look younger), wear a size 4, and have rather large breasts. I look like my mom, who is very pretty, so I don’t think I’m an ogre. I try to dress nicely, wear a bit of makeup and jewelry, take care of my hair and skin, etc. I haven’t been hit on in at least two years. Guys generally ignore me, to the point of letting doors slam in my face or walking straight into me because they’re looking right over my head (did I mention that I’m 5 feet tall?). Very few of them apologize, either. I’ve never once had a stranger offer to pump my gas or carry my bags. I’m trying to think if I’ve ever been honked or wolf-whistled at. I don’t think so. At parties when I was younger, my friends would have guys all over them, while I would be left in the corner. Many of those friends were quite a bit bigger than me, so there goes the argument that guys pass over fatter girls for thinner ones. I’m somewhat reserved and passive so I tend to get ignored in retail situations, the most recent being the restaurant dinner where I was ignored by the waiter in favor of the table with the stunningly beautiful woman or the table full of giggling girls.
I’m married, so I’m not looking (thank goodness, apparently I’d be out of luck if I were). It’s not a big deal, and I am grateful to be invisible when I read some of the comments about harassment, but sometimes the complete lack of acknowledgement that I am a woman by all men save my husband kind of hurts. Granted, my personality is somewhat deficient by society’s standards (Myers-Briggs INTJ; classic introvert science nerd). I’m thinking personality has way more to do with it than anything else. I’m not good at interacting with strangers, and perhaps I give off bad vibes. *shrugs* I almost can’t wait the 10 years until I turn 40 and hopefully I won’t care at all.
Monique - After having met you, I might also add that you just exude coolness, which also may be why people don’t treat you bad. I think even the most fashionable diet-obsessed thin woman would look at you and her immediate thought would be, “What fabulous stockings! I wish I could pull that off as well as she does!”
Or maybe that’s just me :)
Within the past six years, I have weighed 300 pounds and I have weighed 125 pounds. I noticed an extreme and profound difference in the ways in which I was treated at 300 pounds versus 125 and even now at 185 pounds. At 300, random strangers (especially young guys) would hurl venomous insults at will. Sometimes I still get nervous passing a group of guys even today, afraid they will make comments. Shopkeepers wouldn’t wait on me or even look me in the eye. I received poor customer service at restaurants and stores. Professionally, I was infantilized and treated condescendingly.
I had been job hunting for years, but only after I lost weight, did I land a lucrative position in the corporate HR division of a major computer company. I can’t say for certain it was my weight holding me back (or rather holding others back), but I do have to question why I was considered unqualified at 300 pounds and qualified at 125 pounds, when my resume itself had never changed.
Becoming thin was no panacea, however. My dating life remained much the same: nonexistent. If anything, I attracted more negative attention. I had always faced guys mocking me and making sexual innuendos when I was fat, and after becoming thin they remained, but were made with different motivations. I concluded that some guys are assholes regardless if a woman is sexually attractive to them or not.
But, I suddenly became a lot more interesting when I became thin. People wanted to get to know me. Suddenly I was fashionable without even trying (it helps that thin people have a larger selection of clothing to choose from). I had a childhood friend, Josh, who I met up with when I was fat. I was always a friend, the third wheel. We lost touch as my eating disorder grew worse and we touched base again after I was thin. Suddenly Josh wanted to hook up with me. I had known him since the second-grade and it wasn’t until I nearly killed myself losing weight that he found me attractive.
I have to wonder if some of the treatment I received was in response more to the vibes I put out than to the weight itself. It’s a very blurry line: Did guys not like me because I was fat, or because I had very low self-esteem and pushed everyone away because I thought they’d all mock me? Of course, how I felt about myself was also tied to my fatness, so it’s all circuitous.
I have never felt ignored, and I’ve never had a stranger make negative comments about my weight. I’m probably more of an ‘in-between’ (size 16ish, maybe 210lbs at 5′4″) and that might have something to do with it, but generally I think it’s because I’m friendly, assertive and also because - I hate to say this, but it’s true - I’m a professional, I tend to be dressed professionally when I’m out in public, and in my experience if someone looks important, other people treat him/her as important. When I’m out on a weekend in jeans and a tee, people I interact with, especially store clerks and the like, are less attentive. So maybe the experience of fat women who are more jeans-and-tee oriented than I am will be different than my experience not due to their size, but due to discrimination against non-professionals. That would be an interesting topic to study.
I also get plenty of totally unwanted attention from men, especially older men, although maybe not as much as thin girls. But I’m not going to complain about that.
It is infuriating to me when people think that their experience invalidates other people’s experience. O.C. is on the mark. I know everyone here with positive experiences is glad to talk with one another because they want their experiences validated like everyone else. They want to know that they aren’t crazy for not feeling the way many fat people do.
But saying no one has treated you badly because of your “good vibe” IS saying that other people are getting treated badly because of their “bad vibe” and not actually because people are antagonistic or prejudiced against fat people.
I think it’s great that there are many people who haven’t seen a difference in the way they have been treated or who have never been harassed. And I admit that a good attitude does make a difference. But just because you haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean there is something wrong with people who have. And that doesn’t mean it will never happen to you. I had a friend who was recently remarked upon as she ate at Dairy Queen…and it was the first time she had ever been treated that way.
To feel valid in your experiences (positive) you don’t have to invalidate or scapegoat the experiences of others. I understand that’s not what people’s intentions are, but that IS how it comes across to me…and essentially the logical extention of what you are saying.
Just like I don’t need to be a “healthy” fat person to deserve respect, I don’t have to be the super-duperest most coolest fat person. Honestly, this comes across a little like the good-fat bad-fat convos…like being a friendly extrovert is an honored fattie virtue and the rest of us are without.
It seems obvious to me that people are talking about their own subjective experiences, not telling people how they should behave in order to be a “good” fat person. Maybe I need to read the comments more carefully, but can you point out the ones that have been didactic or “invalidating” or “scapegoating”? I’ve seen a range of people describing very different experiences, and have come to the conclusion that there’s no simple answer to this question.
I am me. I am fat. Want to know my worst experience as a fat person? It just happened the other day. Trying to buy an extra seat on a travel website for a trip to Hawaii with my husband. They wouldn’t do it on the site, then I call the 800 number and first get asked why do “I” need an extra seat. I wanted to say, “duh” because I am fat, and want the extra room. But this travel site does not have a work around for a fat person who only goes by one name. Imagine that. So I call the airline that my husband and I wanted to use anyway, and they are more than helpful, say they do things like this more often than people think and it would not be an issue. I know that I am fat. I live in my skin 24/7. I am married. I have a really good life. I do not let my life, or how others might, or might not look at me, color how I choose to live my life. My husband and I do all the same things, go all the same places, and act like any other couple. Nothing stops me from living my life to the fullest, just because I am fat. Fat is just a 3 letter word.
For what it’s worth, I’ve always been thin and people have always treated me like I was invisible, and as a kid I was ridiculed at school. I have always known fat people who were much better off than I was, too. Fat is only one attribute out of many that may or may not make people look at you differently.
I’m not my heaviest, but about 10 pounds lower than my heaviest weight. At my thinnest, I was 70 pounds lower than where I am now (and I hardly ate and swam 2 hours a day and was 17 and was getting over 2 oral surgeries).
So, all that being said, I don’t see a huge difference. I got whistled at a few times in high school, but I was also young, you know? Also, at that time, I could have had every guy interested in me and every girl could have thought I was beautiful, but I wouldn’t have seen it because of the way I felt about myself. I’m more confident now, even though I’m much heavier, and I think my confidence and general optimistic/happy attitude helps a lot. As one of my friends says, I may be short but I have a tall personality.
I’ve heard the fat comment from idiot strangers once in a while, and I won’t lie — it stings. It stings a lot. However, generally most people seem as open to me as they do to others around me.
Mo, I don’t think there’s any one person scapegoating anyone else. But there is a definite pattern in this discussion of “you get back what you put out there” in terms of energy, confidence, and positive self regard. I was going to copy some quotes from the discussion above, but I’m afraid that that might be seen as singling people out or insulting their viewpoints, which I do not want to do. But if you do a control-F and search this page for the words “energy”, “confident”, or “confidence” I think you’ll see what I’m referring to.
It’s very fortunate that so many people who are presenting that side of the discussion have had such positive experiences, but it also is just a hair’s breadth away from blaming those of us who have been insulted for our own victimization.
I’m pretty damn confident, and even, occasionally, cool! But I am also very aware of the interactions around me, and so can say with some confidence (heh!) that I do experience poor treatment due to my size. Not every day. Not everywhere. But it does happen.
An example that just came to mind: When I was perhaps a size 18, out shopping with friends, I saw a purse in a 5-7-9 shop that looked interesting to me, and led the group of my friends into the store. A saleslady VAULTED over to me to explain, peevishly, that they did not carry my size in clothing, just as I was picking up the purse. I doubt that I said anything significant in response, but I sure didn’t buy the purse.
I was happy, confident, and probably looking pretty darn cute going into that interaction. I was surrounded by supportive friends. My positive energy did not protect me from fat hate.
So, what I was saying, and what I appreciate withoutscene saying, is that it’s absolutely wonderful that so many people here haven’t had negative interactions with strangers. Really. I wish that for all of us. But to credit your own behavior, whatever that behavior is, for protecting you from negative interactions is to imply that those of us who have had those negative interactions are attracting them through our own less-than-positive behavior. I don’t think folks’ intention is to blame us for attracting negative attention from strangers, but the implication seems pretty pervasive.
(Note: I am SOOOO not wanting to start a flame war here. Thank you everyone, in advance, for maintaining a positive, open discussion.)
I’ve had the random stranger comments, nasty looks, and shouted slurs. I’m 5′7″ and at my heaviest I was 285 (just under that now at about 255). It has happened more than I like to remember. I am naturally shy but have a good act in public that looks very confident (it is protective but also a “fake it till you make it” plan).
It is frustrating. I can’t believe how many young men feel compelled to comment on women’s bodies.
I hate to think how often I am silently judged.
Today I had trouble with sales ladies helping me with clothes. They only had my size in the back room and I was made to feel bad for having them look (and find) my size. There was some smirking about whether that size would even fit me (largest size that store carries and just barely fits me, admitedly, but it looks good on me so this is my second pair of these jeans). I may not buy another one though because of the women who work at that store. Also when I was trying on clothes the lady brought some recommended tops and the ones she brought were my size but they were all hideous, big shapeless things (not my style at all) and they all screamed “I’m trying to hide my weight”. Not the sort of clothes I had chosen to try on, so she also made me feel like I ought to be wearing things to hide, instead of show off, my body.
I don’t think that any amount of good attitude can stop the random stranger comments or judgments. Confidence and a good attitude only really helps in social situations where people are interacting with you for any length of time and you have to hope the people give you the chance before they write you off as uninteresting due to your weight. Still, we’re better off without those people if that is the way they are going to be.
Last time I lost weight (45 pounds) I got a lot of praise. As I started to regain it (naturally) the positive comments stopped. Everyone pretended it had never happened, probably thinking they were doing me a favor not to bring it up.
Then I found the FA movement. Thank goodness.
I should also note that I have an unusual hairstyle and many strangers comment on it (I don’t mind the comments)–and some people have pulled on my hair without warning to see if it is real (I do mind that). It is real.
Women’s bodies are public property, apparently. Ask any pregnant woman about strangers touching her belly. If I get pregnant I’ll be keeping those hands away (I don’t like to be touched by people I don’t know) any way I have to. Some people know no boundaries.
I searched “energy” and only got your posts and my original post. I searched “confident” and saw several posts from people (some fat, some thin) describing themselves as confident, and one person saying that even though she considers herself confident, she is treated as if she’s invisible.
I’m not trying to nitpick at all, but I’m genuinely trying to understand the “infuriation” at what really seems to be a broad spectrum of personal experience being reported in this thread. Most people are reporting both positives and negatives. I don’t think anyone is saying that confidence protects you from prejudice, or that you have to be confident in order to be valued as a person, fat or thin.
Just my two cents.
I’m certainly feeling no fury, only trying to present my point of view. :-)
Here’s another way to put it: I think that what’s been bugging me isn’t folks’ descriptions of their experiences, but rather their diagnoses of what they think caused those experiences. As none of us here are nasty jerks, we can only imagine what motivates the nasty jerks out there.
I’ll keep being positive and cool (and positive that I’m cool) but I’ll bet the jerks will still be jerky. No matter what I think or do. And if you’ll look at my first comment you’ll see that I’m actually thankful that they reveal themselves that way.
OK, you can tell that my mind is wandering because I really need to eat dinner. Perogi time. :-)
I’ve gone up and down the scale significantly over the last 10 years and I would definitely say there’s a difference in how I’m treated. Losing weight probably provokes the most comments–people remarking how different and magnificent you look (clearly implying something about how I looked before) and comments on my clothes–where as people avoided any overt commentary about my body or clothes at my largest. I’ve had random drive-bys and have been ignored in stores (especially sporting goods/athletic shoes). When I was thin I was very muscular and I would sometimes get good comments and I’d get a lot of “are you sure you need all those muscles” or “dude looks like a lady” crap. It’s true I’m not a terribly confident person and, frankly, I’ve been self-conscious about my body since I was a child.
Of all things, when I cut my hair really short, that’s when I became invisible on the streets. No more hooting or catcalls or harassment or looking me up and down. I don’t miss the negative attention but I do miss the positive.
Informal survey of guys I know revealed that only my husband finds girls with short hair appealing.
My weight changes don’t seem to elicit as dramatic results…
I’ve been very lucky in that I’ve not had a lot of random harassment on the street and such, but I can be a bit socially oblivious so who knows how much “fun” I’ve missed out on. There have been a lot of “near misses”, though - you can see people (overwhelmingly young men) start to snicker and say something as you approach - and then suddenly stop and look away and ignore. Could be because for many years I dressed up in full industro-goth or punk-goth outfits and they had second thoughts when they saw the very spiky wristbands, piercings, big steel-capped boots and angry glare on me. :)
Mo, there IS a broad spectrum of experience on this thread. More often than not, though, those who haven’t had bad experiences attribute it to “what you put out and get in return” or “putting out friendly vibes” or “attitude more than anything else that determines how others treat us” or “it’s really about attitude” or the bad treatment i got “had nothing to do with my weight” (which totally could be true) or “I think people just respond to something that is friendly.”
Now, these are all out of context, but the combined sentiment and select absolutist statements are what struck my nerve. If the reason someone didn’t receive maltreatment is because they were so friendly and positive–what does that imply about those of us who did receive maltreatment? If it’s attitude more than anything that determines how people treat me, it must be me who’s at fault for people treating me so badly. I know people sometimes don’t think about what their statements imply and thus don’t intend those particular implications, but they are implied none the less.
That’s what was infuriating to me…the implications. And I acknowledge that attitude can make a difference in some cases and that people treat you differently based on how “put together” or “professional” you look (in fact, I think there is most certainly a whole intersection with class that could be discussed, as well as gender), but–as several people have noted–those things don’t erase prejudice or fat-hate.
How many oppressed groups get the “well, you’re just not friendly enough” or “you’re just not ____ enough” even from people within their own group? Or “I have a _______ friend, but s/he’s friendly and cool, not like other ______s.” It’s model minority mentality.
I probably over-reacted and didn’t put together very logical statements. Perhaps I should have just noted my agreement since O.C. put it so well, but I was honestly distressed at the trend. Hopefully this time around I make a little more sense, even if you still disagree with me.
I am 5′10″, and have been from 275 to 190. There has been a huge differance in how I’m treated at the two ends of that range, and 190 isn’t even thin. At 190 people smile, are cheerful, service is good, and everything else. At 275, I had super-invisibility powers.
Now I’m 240, and 40 years old. And I think one of the most stiinging things to happen to me recently has been by my peers - aka other 40-ish, fatish women. At my gym, two ladies very similar to me and I got into a discussion about triathalon, something I want to do, and something they both were into. Their comments were along the lines of “Oh, you can do it. Bigger people parcipate all the time” and “You’d have lots of company, the youngest women in our group were about 45″. The implications being a) I’m so big I need reassurance, though we were all about the same size, and b) I’m so old, I might be worried about all those younger-than-45′ers, but again, we were all about the same size and age.
Ouch, and ouch. I mean, I know I’m fat and 40, and have no problem with that honestly, but , seriously, these two were just like me physically, and yet felt the need to make comments like that. I still can’t decide if I put out a weak, old, fat vibe, or what. It haunts me, I tell ya.
I am 47, 5′7″ and about 220lbs. I really can’t say I am treated all that much differently. Sure, when I was much thinner and younger I was flirted with more. Twenty years olds get flirted with more than 40 year olds. But I still get hit on now and again. I generally dress professionally and get respect. I have run into fatphobes, but these same jerks treat many types of people rudely. It is really how they feel about themselves. The worst treatment I got was from self hating other fat women. I am not trying to blame the victim but I think ones own attitude does make a difference.
Well, I have recently lost about 50 pounds, and in some places how I’m treated has changed. In some stores, employees used to ignore or be rude to me because I clearly didn’t fit into their clothes. Now it depends on the store. Today I bought my first pair of size 16 jeans (down from a 24), so in some stores I still don’t fit, in some I am still plus, in some I straddle plus and “normal,” and some I can wear now that I couldn’t before. In places like the Gap that go up to an 18 or so, employees are nicer to me now that I look like I can wear their stuff.
As far as random people, I swear sometimes people step in front of me on the street or subway because they assume I can’t walk fast. Like if I’m in a pack of people sometimes I’ll see people wait until those walking in front of me pass and then step in front of me. Maybe I’m being paranoid, but sometimes I swear they waited for me because they thought the fat girl would be the slowest walker. Which makes it much more fun for me to pass them (and deliberately miss hitting them by millimeters) then leave them in the dist because I’ve acclimated to New York City and now was as fast as some people run.
A couple years ago I applied for a job at Curves and the manager was very interested and impressed by my application over the phone, then I interviewed in person and didn’t hear anything. When I called to follow up I got the “we’ve decided to hold of hiring anyone…” blah blah blah thing even though I knew for a fact they were really short staffed (I had two friends working there).
As far as men go…a few more look now than did 50 pounds ago, but I’m still a fat girl, so it’s not THAT many. But that could be more my lack of confidence that my body. I have noticed certain racial differences in who looks at or hits on me. That’s merely an observation, not a complaint, and certainly not intended in any bigoted or racist way. Usually I get checked out if I’m out at night and wearing one of my booby tops. That’s independent of race, actually. Boobs transcend cultures.
I live in New York City, by the way. It’s like the skinny chick capital of the world, so sometimes just walking around makes me feel bad about myself.
Oh, and I’ve also noticed that on the subway people don’t sit next to me. Either they think fat is contagious or that my ass is going to encroach on their space. Fine, though, that means I frequently sit next to an empty space and am more comfortable. So nyah.
I think I notice the differences a lot when with my best friend, who once got described in a school paper article as a bird-boned living anime doll. Watching her walk into a restaurant or bar is interesting. But although she remains oblivious to even blatant come-ons or whistling, it’s actually less true obliviousness and more a determination not to engage, because the attention she gets can be seriously creepy and weirdly fawning. She always, always dates these guys who are more like grim bodyguards.
It’s what Foo said, above–it never, ever would have occurred to me that it could be so different, just because of your size. It can be funny, sometimes–like, for all of college she thought we all got free coffee in the library lobby, because they never charged her. And there’s a part of me that resents, a little, that men fall all over themselves to throw their coat over the puddle in her path or will fling themselves on the ground for her to step on instead, but at the same time I know that it’s not a fairy tale, especially because an unfortunate number of those men think that they’re then entitled to attention in return.
I gained about 90 lbs after I got married. I definitely felt invisible when I was overweight. It felt like ’skinny’ people didn’t want to hear anything I had to say and it got to the point that I stopped trying.
I didn’t realize that it probably had to do with my weight until I lost (most of) it. Now male employees in stores are much friendlier and tend to bombard me with offers to help. Female employees are just the opposite! They are usually less helpful - unless I have my kids with me.
I have to admit, though, that some of the treatment was probably due to my personality. Unlike some of you who have commented, I was never confident and fun when I was overweight. I’m getting more that way now since I don’t feel like I have to hide, so it may not be the weight so much as the change in my attitude.
You know, it is not something I have noticed as much in my adult life. I was treated differently by my peers in grade school through high school, but not as much now. I think being overweight has mostly affected my ability to date, but I am not sure if that is more to do with how I feel about myself than a man not being attracted to me because I’m fat. I can, unfortunately, tell you that being overweight will effect how you are treated my medical staff. I cannot tell you how many times the people I work with make fun of their patients or blame their illness on the fact that they were fat. It is not out right obvious, but they do tend to put up with more from patients who are thinner. Plus medical people don’t like overweight people because it is harder to move them and causes a lot of extra hard work.
Thanks, Withoutscene. You put that better than I could.
In a broader sense, I’ve seen a trend in some blog comments that when folks are sharing personal experiences it seems that we are all so excited to talk about ourselves that it’s easy not to really look at what other people have said first, and to take that into account when telling your own story. I plead guilty to this myself! I don’t think people mean to be insensitive, but that’s the unintended result.
Hmm…when I was younger, I got the usual and customary crap thrown at me in school….but, after licking my wounds and lots of self-love…I’m pretty OK.
As a 40-something woman, who now does as she pleases (piercings, ink and all)…I rarely get the nasty comments from strangers….could be that I look like I’ll slap them into the middle of their next incarnation!
I pretty much agree with you. I’ve heard all these horrible stories from fat women who have had trash thrown at them or been called awful names. Personally, when I was fat no one ever threw stuff at me outside of a dodgeball game. And when someone call me a “jelly roll,” the incident stuck in my mind simply because it WAS so uncommon. If that stuff happened to be all the time, I probably would have considered it normal, but instead it always stood out as bizarre.
I did find that as I lost weight I became more confident. I knew people were more likely to judge me on my looks and that made me more willing to put myself out there. So, there is some difference now that I’m thinner, but it’s not the mindblowing, completely different universe that it is often made out to be.
I know this is not a great thing to admit about oneself, but in response to Meghan1 up above - I had recently lost some weight; not a ton, but enough that it made a difference. I got soooo much attention from it - mainly from my in-laws. It made me super-uncomfortable - and, as some people have mentioned, it also made me perceive certain actions as being hypocritical, fair to that person or not. My mother in law all of a sudden wants to take me shopping? Hmm - could it be because every time I saw her she screamed about how I lost weight and how WONDERFUL it all was? I answered those comments as a good FA person, to no avail.
I got so uncomfortable with the commentary - my body usually escapes much commentary, outside of the occasional rude catcall or nice comment from my husband - that I found myself eating far more than my body wanted to eat, and put those pounds back on. I don’t think it’s actually where my body wants to be, and I am struggling with the whole intuitive eating thing and letting my body be where it likes, heavier or thinner than I was before. But, yes, the change was super-uncomfortable, so much so that I overate to restore myself back to pre-change. (Not that eating is what makes people fat, or that over-eating will make all people fat - not saying that. Just saying, in my case, if I over-eat by those amounts, I’ll put on some weight. )
I’ve said it before here and I will say it again. I don’t think confidence makes men go weak in the knees.
I think attraction is really complex, and mere confidence is neither a love potion nor a shield from all assholes everywhere. I will agree that confidence can keep all of the bullshit from setting you back, head and heart-wise.
I basically like and respect myself. During the work week, I dress professionally, wear makeup and use product in my hair. On the weekends, I switch the wardrobe to jeans or sportswear, but from the neck up, I’m “treated.”
I get ignored by most (probably because everyone has somewhere to be), attention from others and shouted at by assholes in cars. This also happens when I’m walking down the street with my girlfriend, who is a soft butch woman.
The only constant? The asshole behavior is universally male in my experience. Most of the time, it seems like a carload of assholes is trying to startle or frighten me/us. I never jump in fright or respond.
at 5′1″ and 245 lbs I am what is described as rondegiata in Italian, short and round, and I find how I’m treated by people is subtly different and probably varies by person. I get great service at restaurants because I am a commanding person and am the first to look the waiter in the face. In fact, I tend toward getting good service wherever I go… except icecream shops. If I go into an icecream shop with my boyfriend and we both order a scoop in a cone, he will get served a bigger cone. I also get catty looks from women when I’m walking with him, because he is conventionally attractive.
But as others stated earlier, it’s a confidence thing. If you are confident, then you get treated better than those that aren’t
“I will agree that confidence can keep all of the bullshit from setting you back, head and heart-wise.”
Brava, Cindy! :-)
Since leaving school, I can’t say I’ve had too many instances where I’ve felt a person’s been mean or rude to mean simply because of my size (18.) Mostly, I find people here just tend to ignore each other, at most doing the “smile-nod” combo when forced into having eye contact with another. And that’s really fine with me; I’m fairly introverted and honestly don’t know what to do when a stranger just begins rambling to me.
I have actually had the most unpleasant experiences at the grocery store. Once, an older man was blocking the end of an aisle, and I scooted up and said, “Excuse me.” He turned, glared at me, then yelled, “Did you see that? That BIG GIRL almost hit me!” Another time, I heard a pair of college-aged boys mocking me as I walked by, I once heard a pair of college-aged girls laugh at me and hiss “I’d rather be dead than look like that,” and a cashier laughed until she turned red because I couldn’t squeeze out between my cart and the checkout.
At a store I once worked at, my manager hated me, and, unfortunately, he was in charge of ordering uniforms, which meant I had to give him my measurements, which he then broadcast to the entire store during a busy lunch rush, laughing at how big the pants would be.
I belong to a dating site, and I checked out a guy’s profile. I didn’t leave a comment, as he seemed a bit pompous, but he felt it necessary to send me a message saying, “You are fat and unattractive. Seriously, don’t even bother.”
Maybe this is my own paranoia, but having spent most of my young adult life as the chubby friend, I’ve found that rather than being invisible, I am often a sexual object.
This has nothing to do with my particular beauty, but rather the fact that as a fat woman, I do not deserve (and why, in fact, would I wish to be left alone? I must be DYING for some male attention!) the distance and respect that might be afforded to me were I thinner.
This aside, I know that many thin women experience catcalls and personal appearance comments on a regular basis, but I still feel as if there is a particular attitude that states that a fat girl should welcome the attention.
It is so GOOD to read these comments and know that I am not alone.
It’s funny- I was tormented for being a fat kid (and I wasn’t even that fat when I was a kid) and if I recall, my worst tormentor was a boy named Nathan Bergman, who was far fatter than I was.
Of course, it is far more heinous to be fat (and worse, to be OK WITH YOUR BODY) when you are a woman. How DARE you not want to be the best sexual object you can be!
Jesse, you make an interesting point. Thinking back, I remember that two of the kids who were the worst to me when I was a kid were boys that were at least as fat as me. Maybe because I was a girl, or maybe they were doing it to me to keep the attention off of themselves…or maybe a combination of the two.
Sigh. I was one who said I was a relatively confident and happy person. I simply answered a question and was not implying that those who DO feel marginalized deserve to be treated that way because perhaps they have a different type of personality than mine. It’s just the way I am, most of the time.
I’m also in an interracial relationship, and my partner tends to see a lot more of the looks or hear a lot more negative comments than I do. Perhaps I just don’t notice things like that because I’m talking to someone or engrossed in something else.
I think people mostly treat me just like anyone else. I do think that I project my own feelings on people, thinking they are judging my actions and feelings. But they really haven’t been.
I actually went out on the street and asked strangers if they thought I was fat for a personal essay documentary I made for a class. You can see it over at:
http://jigglybits.wordpress.com/2008/05/08/fat-documentary/
if you’re at all interested…
I think the point about class is an interesting one. The worst period of time in my life in terms of the fat comments was not at my heaviest but when I was overweight by maybe 25-30 pounds and working as a maid in a fairly cheap motel. I regularly got comments–I suspect some of it was because I was young, because I was a woman, and because people could boss me around, but a lot of the comments were coupled with fat-insults. When I am larger I often find it is hard to dress professionally within my budget–it’s hard to find well fitting clothes and I’m always cuffing the pants, the jackets never quite fit, etc.
First, I want to say that, having about a 35-40 pound “swing”, that I appreciate people telling their stories.
I know that at the end of the day we’re pretty much on our own when it comes to our own body image insanity, but there’s a lot of wisdom here about how to deal with it when it’s really not you — it’s the other person being insane.
(I’m especially grateful to the person who noted that weight is not the only quality that can affect how people relate to you. There really is a lot of give-and-take interplay — it’s almost continuous — between how you perceive yourself and how people perceive you. I was talking to a friend about this in another context just this week.)
This, for example, I think is a lot more about how those women feel about themselves than how they perceive you, Tangerine. The way I read it, and the way I’ve heard friends - no, acquaintances - of mine do that with respect to other body traits makes it sound like they’re talking out loud to themselves about themselves, and projecting off you.
Also, T, it’s one of the reasons I never, never, never, never, NEVER tell people — especially strangers —
1) how old I am
2) how much I weigh.
No matter how much they harass me, no matter whether they try to threaten me with something catty, no matter how much they say I’m withholding or not being sociable or whatever. Never.
First, it’s always going to change.
Second, we as women get so much crap about our age and weight, I honestly don’t see why we should subject ourselves to the abuse.
I live in a suburb which is nauseatingly trendy. The mall only sells clothing to those who are extremely thin, seriously they even had an out and out protest against a Torrid moving in there. Their claim, it would bring “The wrong kind of people” to their community.
I don’t recall anyone specifically making fun of my weight. However, you definetly can’t help feeling like an outcast, in a suburb which belives that all girls should be thin and proper. It’s scary as hell. Like when I heard they protested Torrid, I was like “So does this mean they’re pro-Anorexia/Bulemia?”
I really have nothing to do in my suburb, all there is to do is go to the mall. It’s been claimed they don’t want something here like let’s say, a Gameworks, for safety reasons. I don’t know if having at least one place here that isn’t a Chuck E Cheese to hang out at, would be such a bad idea. It seems though that would take away from spending money at the mall though. Renforcing the idea that all women are good for is shopping shopping shopping.
YES people do treat you differently when you aren’t fat. I’ve recently lost a large amount of weight and am no longer “invisible” in society. People talk and smile; clerks greet me in stores, men show more interest. I’m also being treated differently at work and by execs at the company I work at…I am still the same person on the inside, though….and I feel like the jerks who were so rude and hateful when I was heavier are still jerks that I want nothing to do with.
ML, kind of makes you want to teach those jerks a lesson, ala the film The Girl Most Likely To..
The thing I noticed the most when I lost weight was how much more people seemed to read into my manner and behavior. Men especially were far more likely to wildly misread me and/or have stronger emotional reactions to things I said. Suddenly, my opinion mattered more to them, and even when I was talking about something that had nothing to do with them, they assumed I was subtly commenting on them - approving or disapproving, etc.
I read a book once by a woman who lost a lot of weight (think it was “Passing for Thin”) where she mentioned having to scale her public persona back a little when she lost weight because it became the equivalent of shouting. That was definitely my experience. The confident, outgoing, over-the-top personality I put out there as a fat girl got me a lot of unwanted attention when I lost weight, especially from men who interpreted it as much more focused and intense interest in them than I wanted to convey.
Women acquaintances (my friends treated me pretty much the same) talked to me as if old fat me and new thin me were two completely different people. I had a coworker who was all of 2 years younger than me that the older women I worked with discussed with me as if she were years younger than me. This actually made me kind of proud at the time, and I gave myself props for maturity - - but when I lost weight, started dating, etc., they started treating me as if I were younger and considerably less wise. I also had women ‘friends’ who were fond of telling me how much more ___(fun, smart, fill in blank) I was, now that I was thin, as if that fat person were someone else and it wouldn’t bother me to hear her put down. It was very weird.
I gained a lot of weight after I married (100+) and I do see the difference in how I was treated before and how I am treated now. I also feel the difference in myself (personality and emotional side) than how I was when I was thinner…Well I was around 225 when I met my husband, so I guess I wasn’t “thin” persay. I was more willing to try new things, than I am now. I think a lot of factors contribute to that, but my weight is the major one.
Also, as Rachel discussed above, I would send in resumes and talk with hiring managers about a job opening. However, once they met me, they wouldn’t call back. I always think that if I were thinner, my career would be better. I see coworkers in the same position as me who get the “better” opportunities and projects. I have more education and experience but it seems not to matter in Corproate America. I try not to let it bother me too much, but it does.
When I was fat, I had no problem getting a date. Nothing has really changed in that department. Nobody really comments on my weight anymore, like they did in school. I attribute this to two things; maturity levels, and my weight loss.
I live in NYC and I do see the difference sometimes, but most of the time it’s in a good way. People treat me better then my skinny friend, and one day she asked why do I get all the good service. I told her it’s because I’m approachable, and I carry myself well. Just because I’m PHAT don’t mean I deserve to be mistreated. I love me and I agree with you a 100% I don’t know how it is to be thin, I have never walked in those shoes. I play the cards that I have been dealt and continue to be productive and enjoying life.
Even though I have been picked on most of my life, I was treated MUCH better in my teenage years. I was the “acceptable” type of heavy (think size 12-14). Now, I feel people downright ignore me. It’s fine with me, because I’m anti-social anyway. I specifically avoid ANY group of males (especially teenagers), because I KNOW they will say something horrible to me.
I already assume people are not going to like me because I’m large.
My boss told me the other day that I was too young and pretty to be fat.
My own family has treated me differently now that I am thinner (though I’m 20 pounds heavier than my lightest weight in the past ten years).
I’m 5′10″ and currently 246 pounds. At my heaviest weight of 274.5 pounds, my mom teased me constantly. Told me that no boy would ever want to date me at that weight. Told me I smelled bad. When we’d go to Lane Bryant, she’d feign an upset stomach and tell me that she had to go to the bathroom. Then she’d tell me to just try on clothes, pick out what I wanted, and she’d pay for them when she got back.
My dad never wanted me to go anywhere with him. He was rarely ever affectionate with me. He constantly insulted me. When I went to buy my Corolla back in 2005, he told my youngest brother Caleb that they “don’t sell cars to fat, ugly chicks,” then couldn’t understand why I got upset when he told me.
My brothers all called me names like Shamu and Free Willy. For a while there, I think my brother Adam forgot my name because he just called me “fat” instead. My two youngest brothers told me I’d be pretty if I weren’t so fat.
One of my coworkers would ask me if my “fat legs” were cold if I ever wore a skirt in the winter time. Then she watched everything I ate and commented on it.
Now, down from a size 26/28 to a size 16/18, things are different.
My mom not only stays with me when we go shopping at NY & Co. or Old Navy or JCPenneys, but she ASKS me if I want to go shopping. She helps me pick out clothes. She compliments me. I’ve really learned how to dress my body and wear my hair and makeup in very flattering ways, and she’s even go so far as to tell me that I am pretty or cute or whatever.
My dad tells me that he brags to his coworkers about how gorgeous he thinks I am. When I tried out for the Torrid Model Search, he told me that he had no doubts that a beautiful girl like me could win it. (I didn’t though.) He’s affectionate and treats me so much better than he did before.
My brothers are always telling me now how pretty they think I am. Whenever I try something on or decide on an outfit and run it by them, I cringe because I think that they’re going to tell me I look fat in it, and it surprises the hell out of me when they tell me that I look very pretty.
My coworkers have all gushed over my weight loss and commented on how “good” I am and how much they need to be like me and etc. I get stopped by women in other offices, who tell me how wonderful I look now. The men in the office eye me and some even flirt with me.
As for the whol