It's, Like, So Meta
For a meta trainwreck, feast your eyes on the trouble brewing between Big Fat Deal and My Fat Spouse. It’s in the comments here and on their board here. Apparently Big Fat Blog is talking about it too. Here is what Crash of My Fat Spouse has to say (my comments are in brackets):
What’s worse is these people go off half cocked. Like the studies they cherry pick, they cherry pick quotes. [Here you go, Crash, I’m quoting you at length.] They don’t mention my frequent posts about avoiding negativity in broaching the topic with a loved one. Nor do they recognize the fact that continuously (not just today or in the last few days) that I’ve generally focused on positive reinforcement, praise and working towards a total healthy lifestyle approach. [Positive reinforcement and praise! Well, it totally works on our dog, so…]
No mention of my stance against outdated BMI measures, outdated scale measurements, or the fact that I’ve ALWAYS told people to eat so that they are never hungry.
No mention that I’m very outspoken against the perils of fast food, damaging/insulin wrecking high fructose corn syrup, and against taking magic cure all pills often pushed on people as quick fixes.
They don’t mention that I’ve never advocated that people’s spouses reach six pack abs or look like a fitness model. My approach has almost always been to make gradual changes… [You’re lulling me into complacency here…]
As for my anti-fat acceptence stance… yeah. I dislike and disapprove of ANY one who tells someone to not bother with personal growth and positive change. I think it’s irresponsible and reprehensible.
I’m never going to be for telling people it’s okay not to fight for a better life. I won’t tell people it’s okay to overeat, stay sendentary, and give up hope…
And right there’s where BFD becomes a strawman. Point to me where I’ve ever said don’t bother with personal growth or positive change; that’s obviously ridiculous. Even if you define “positive change,” as he does, as diet and exercise, I would never say don’t bother. I try to eat well and exercise and live healthily and even make changes to my diet, I just happen to also be fat. And because I’m fat, people on that thread assume I don’t do any of those things, that I just sit around all day collecting ad revenue from the gullible hoards who visit my blog, and spending it on pie. (Which is also a totally valid lifestyle choice. Maybe someday.)
And of course, in Crash’s view, fat people are “hopeless” and sedentary and need better lives. Oh, the irony! Because don’t forget, this all started when he attacked a fat person who wasn’t sedentary, who was hopeful, and who inspired positive change. And yet it wasn’t good enough. It wasn’t the right kind of positive change. (No biscuit! Bad fatty!)
Anyway, there’s a little entertainment for you. In other meta news, Emily (aka chubbygirl27) has come back with a thoughtful comment on the thread about her video:
You expressed concern that anyone on YT can spread an ‘unwise’ message and gain respect, that is true on any democratic platform. I simply voiced my opinion, based on my personal experince as a plus size woman. Pretty or not, it would be false to think that any plus size woman doesn’t feel some sort of stigma or struggle with today’s obsession with being slim. I feel it too, therefore I chose to talk about ideally what I’d prefer: acceptance based on more than just a ‘look’.
My blogs are simple, yes, you have noticed. I have no acting experience, production values, no real direction with them, I simply blog about what feel at the time. So if my simplicity and lack of true direction, my face and exploitation of my boyfriend are offensive to you and non-representative of your life as a plus-size woman, I am sorry that you thought I should be ‘more’ than what I am.
Thanks for coming back to share your thoughts, Emily!
Posted by mo pie
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Umm. Wow. That link to the my fat spouse blog was…hateful. I don’t like those people. And I can see why FGOAB chose to remove herself from that line of fire. As much as I miss her, I can understand her decision to privatize.
What the hell kind of twisted logic informs their thinking? That putting yourself out there on the net is to give a free abuse-spewing license to every hatemonger who comes along is a pretty f’ed up conclusion. Yet they expect one to take them seriously. Odd.
No offense, Mo, but why are you providing a platform for and seriously pondering the nonsensical and inflammatory musings of a site that frankly, isn’t worth your time or ours? The entire appeal of the site is for people (mostly men) to ogle and comment on how hot or how unattractive the spouses of others are, because according to them, it’s superficial qualities that make a marriage strong.
I’ve learned that you have to pick your battles in life. For me, I try to pick opponents that are at least worth my while.
I reread my comment and hope it doesn’t look like I’m appearing judgmental or holier-than-thou. What I should have stressed is that this site is pretty sensationalist and elementary, with subscribers who most likely watch Baywatch reruns over the evening news. Therefore engaging it in an intellectual debate seems pretty futile, and not only increases the site’s exposure and hits, it also suggests that it is one worth reckoning with. And, really, it’s not.
I see your points, but I find rantings and fights on the internet entertaining. I really doubt any of our readers are going to go become regulars at Big Fat Spouse… right?
Rachel, in theory, I agree, but in actual practice, its a popular site that somewhat legitimizes this line of thinking that somebody has permission to publicly humiliate somebody if they stop being “the bride they bought.” And unfortunately, its a common belief, supported by much of the other media discussed here at BFD. As defined in this blog’s equivalent of “about”, BFD is “a weblog out there that focuses on the portrayal of weight in pop culture.” And the Internet is indeed pop culture.
I’m not going to assume all the subscribers over there watch “baywatch” or whatever. I would bet a lot of them are simply annoyed that their trophy spouse has aged, gained weight, or just tarnished a bit, forgetting what happens to people as they age, go through changes, etc. I made my comment earlier that I was surprised the site owner (“Chris”) wife hadn’t divorced him yet — in another part of that site, he admits his wife hates it. I don’t know, I sure couldn’t be married to somebody who was so obsessed with MY weight that he spends apparently an ungodly amount of time on a blog devoted to shaming me and my peers into losing weight (a tactic that rarely works). The site exists indeed to “provide support” — to LEGITIMIZE this sort of behavior and hate, and as we all too well know in the media, they’ve already got a jump on succeeding.
My question to them is, really, how do fat people really HURT you? By not being attractive to you? They never answer that. They simply hide behind the health card.
But that’s why it’s worth a look and a discussion. You ride your bike down the street and somebody leans out of their car and screams “FAT” at you, and you wonder why. Seems we’re trying to figure this out here.
v’ron, you say, My question to them is, really, how do fat people really HURT you? By not being attractive to you?
And I think that is really what it comes down to. As basic and simple as it is, a lot of people don’t get that a) it is okay to be different from each other and b) not everyone has the same tastes.
I can see both Rachel’s and Mo’s points. On the one hand the guy whose avatar is a picture of an ass? comes across as a total idiot with nothing better to do than blather on about things he has no personal stake in. I merely skimmed but I was done when he said, “I’m not a doctor… I sleep with one.” The fuck?
On the other hand, while it is comfortable to preach to the choir, sometimes people just need called on their bullshit EVEN IF they never admit that it was bullshit.
I think it’s an absolute shame that the person behind BMI project has allowed herself to be bullied off the net. I know it’s hard to see it this way in a sea of defensive idiots, but that horrible response on that forum? It’s a good thing. The hostility is GOOD because their narrow worldview was challenged, and yes, they will act like morons as they process the possibility that not only are they wrong, they’re pretty much jerks and far, far from the righteousness they presume.
In this day and age, if you prove someone wrong, the person proved wrong tends to feel entitled to continue to claim the fallacy for awhile. By letting people shut her up, she’s let them win, when in fact, hostility and all, she was getting somewhere.
How incredibly hateful that My Fat Spouse site is! It’s always that same assumption- that someone is fat just because they’re not being healthy. I hate it.
Also, I agree with the above comment about the whole “bride you bought” idea- I think it’s ridiculous. But I also think that if you really DO have a problem with your spouse changing over a certain amount of time, then you aren’t meant to stay with them. It’s just really unfair to blame it on THEM.
The other thing I wanted to say was- it’s one thing to be concerned with someone’s health, and another thing to just be upset that they are fat. And there are different ways of broaching the subject depending on which it is. If you’re just upset because your spouse gained 20 lbs and they don’t look as “good” as they did before? Suck it up or break it off, you don’t deserve them. If you truly are concerned about their health, you invite them to do healthy things. That’s that.
My feeling is that, sure, you may have the RIGHT to leave someone because they gained some weight, but it’s still an asshole thing to do.
I completely understand Mo – sites like this are pretty entertaining in all their vapidity, but I think you have to have a pretty thick skin to see past the offensiveness.
I guess the rest of you have better answers than “but… it’s kind of funny!” Really in thinking about it, it’s more than that. I mean, this very thread caused Sarah to quit (which I assume many of you are interested in; I sure was) and yet the people at that site think they’re doing this great public service. I think “ignore them and they’ll go away” doesn’t always work. I think sometimes we have to talk about this shit. It’s just not that easily dismissed, at least for me.
I think “ignore them and they’ll go away” doesn’t always work. I think sometimes we have to talk about this shit. It’s just not that easily dismissed, at least for me.
They won’t go away if we ignore them, sure, but they’re also not going to go away if we address them.
I’m not saying we shouldn’t call bullshit when we see it, but my point is more that by engaging people like this, all we seem to be doing is adding fuel to the fire. I doubt many of the people at the site will have an epiphany and begin to see the fat acceptance light. Rather, they’ll see a bunch of fat people who see the site as so adversarial and influential that they devote their time and attention to addressing it. And that, I fear, will only serve to further embolden the people who patronize the site.
I’m not trying to dictate what we (collectively) should or shouldn’t address – it’s your blog and your dollar – I’m just offering my own personal opinion. I also see and understand your perspective, as well as Meghan’s and V’rons. I guess it boils down to choosing the battles you feel you have the wherewithal to fight.
The My Fat Spouse website is simply further evidence in support of the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory (Normal Person+Anonymity+Audience =Total Fuckwad). (Definition taken from the Urban Dictionary.)
Because there are no real, personal consequences to their bile-spewing, it will continue, and they will continue to feel self-righteous and smug about it. And while it is useful, in the grand scheme of things, to discuss and understand the the implications of what they say, all we can really change is our response to it.
I look at that website and wonder if my husband is posting there, because he would love to let all those hate-filled, angry people feed his anger.
I don’t know, the whole thing on top of my life right now is making me start crying so I can’t make a good comment right now.
To quote Margaret Cho: “It’s not the hate, it’s the stupidity…”
I was able to be amused by the sheer stupidity of it until I got to the part were they started going off on “fat athletes”. Sure, they (the F.A.’s) can “participate”, but they can’t “compete”. They don’t finish high enough in the standings so why the hell would they even bother doing a triathlon? It couldn’t have anything to do with the fact that maybe, just maybe, the F.A.’s enjoy training and then participating in the events? Oh and lest we think they’re total fuck-tards (too late boys) they’re really just concerned about our poor, poor joints. It’s not about the hate, it’s strictly about the health. God, I can’t wait to go to the gym tonight!
Di, Kate Harding is still online – she’s the founder of the BMI project. Sarah of “Fat Girl on a Bike” has temporarily taken her blog private.
We’re not all hardened soldiers in the war against ignorant assholes. Shaming and blaming Sarah for not being strong enough is just as counterproductive as the horrific thread that drove her away in the first place.
What bugs most about this Crash character’s posts is that he comes *close* to sounding reasonable but ruins it…he almost seems to get it, but I guess if that were the case he wouldn’t be advocating a community that seems so dedicated to attempting to use shame as a tool for fitness, something we all know doesn’t work. What’s the saying, that if shame were a motivation for weight loss there would hardly be any fatties left?
I like that he honestly apologized to Sarah. It was warranted and didn’t seem like bullshit.
Where he loses me is when he resorts to insults. He appears to be a personal trainer, so where in the personal training handbook does it say it’s okay to try and insult and shame people into losing weight? I don’t care if people use the word “fat”, it’s just descriptive. But he claims to get birthday cards from former fatties he “cured,” did he get them into shape by calling them “heffers” on a public website? I just dont’ get where he’s coming from.
I don’t mind people who think that working out and constricting your diet is the be all end all. It works for some people, and there’s nothing wrong with being a competitive athlete. But it seems like for the people like him it’s a “damned if you do damned if you don’t” situation. He hates fat people, but if they exercise TOO much then he shames them into quitting bc of his great “concern” for their fricking joints. Wtf. These are like the people who post on road race websites complaining about the fatties who participate, whenever everyone who has ever competed in a road race knows that slow runners remain at the back and let the “serious athletes” obsessed with their times go to the front. So what offends them is not that the fatties “get in the way”, but that they’re there, being all FAT.
I like to hear both sides of any argument, but lots of times the other side is just hateful people using concern for people’s health as an excuse to humiliate and hate on others. It makes me sad for humanity, to be a little dramatic about it. ;)
I don’t like the idea that what I said on my fatspouse site is okay because what you are doing is hurting your joints in practically the same breath of she’s walking anyway, she’s not a “real” triathlete. If this is something she loves to do and gets her outside exercising why does anything else matter? Why hurt her feelings? What did she do to you? If 2/3rds of it is healthy for her (swimming and bike riding) and she supposedly “walks” the rest, why not let her do it without making her feel like she’s less deserving to reach her goals. What I think is being covered up is how dare I have to look at someone who doesn’t live up to my expectations of attractiveness and what I expect a triathlete to look like. What’s missing is this untrue rationality that EVERYONE can be thin, you only have to try (if you don’t exercise too hard, according to my standards, and I never have to see you eat anything but the perfect food, because don’t you know, that’s what ALL the skinny people do). Sites like these don’t recognize, not for everyone, but for some if not most, what exactly it takes to be thin. If 90% of us fail who try and gain it all back and more, what is missing here, what’s the big mystery, does it REALLY come down to oh I’ll just be fat for my husband and sitting down with a box of twinkies or maybe we’re not all supposed to be thin. Maybe, just maybe, after you’re married and your attentions are not always 100% focused on starving yourself and instead you engage your husband and oh I don’t know, eat dinner every night, I used to skip dinner to keep my weight down, often feeling my stomach growl so hard I’d make myself go to bed early. If the “fatties” are eating healthy foods and getting some exercise (joint approved or not), can’t people get over the fact that not everyone should be wearing size 6? Just because I’m not pretty enough for you to look at, a trophy wife, or someone you can high five your buddy’s over how hot I am, is that all women are good for? Why doesn’t it matter that your wife is smart or is a good cook or a great engaged mom, or she’s the one person you can’t wait to share your day with. It all comes down to her looks and how willing she is to starve for you. I think it’s sad.
Sorry but I’m not up for being amused today by the acme of civilisation that is MFS.
But I did wonder, why don’t the fat spouses get together and form a blog of their own, called my hateful spouse, tagline, what happened to that person that was so nice to me before the ring was on my finger?
They can chart, in clinical detail, their beloved’s decline into hate fuelled nitwittery.
I really have to think the only recourse is not to marry such a hideous asshole in the first place, and a lot of that is luck, unfortunately. I don’t know what it’s like to live in a world where men feel that way and I don’t want to know. The only redemption here is that if their happiness hinges on so little (some wrinkles, stretch marks, or 20 or 50 pounds) then they are going to spend a LOT of their lives unhappy. Which I think they deserve. I’m just sorry their spouses have to live in that world too.
Oh, and runners’ complaints about fat runners directly prove “I just don’t get it!”‘s point that the fat runners are not in their way or in fact affecting them at all other than being there and doing stuff while fat. I am a fat runner and in the 5K I ran recently, I was nowhere near last. Bitch about slow runners and be a misinformed asshole if you want (because as was said, slower runners are not stupid and they start in the back, then stay to the right, so they don’t actually affect the faster runners at all) but the moment you invoke “fat” in your complaint, it is pure prejudice all the way because you have no way of knowing whether a given fat runner is actually slow or fast.
Anonymous people bashing others who are different (or are they?) on the Internet? WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO? Oh, yeah, it’s been like this…always. Online or offline, there are always people judging you. They are smirking to their friends as you waddle by, getting a good chuckle out of the clothes you think you actually look good in even though they aren’t a tent and don’t hide your body. They’re watching you eat and regardless of whether you eat cheese-covered french fries or a salad, they are assuming you’re a glutton and/or fast-food-aholic. They think if they were you, they could fix you. They think they have you figured out. But mostly, they just want to look at you and think, “my life could be worse”.
What are you going to do about it? Lock yourself inside your house to avoid them? Take down your blog that may be helping others so you can pretend they don’t exist? Sorry, but they are still there. And they’ve proven their point. Fat people are apparently damaged goods. They are so self-conscious and self-hating that they can’t stand the truth. They hide behind their biased studies and convince their selves they’re OK because there is a skinny girl with a BMI in the Obese range.
God. I’m ashamed to have ever thought blogs like this were progressive. Apparently they are all just shields blocking them from reality. Fat people know why they’re fat unless there is something medically wrong with them that has yet to be discovered. We haven’t evolved for thousands of years to be fat; it’s simply not natural. So it goes without saying that people who are fat are either not eating properly, not exercising enough, or their body is not functioning correctly. Why is that such a terrible truth? It’s still OK to be different, and if you WANT to be fat, then by all means, be fat and happy–keyword: happy. Obsessing over some jerkoff’s opinion of you is not happy in any way.
Lemme guess, Mandi, you started South Beach and it’s really working this time!
So ignoring them is running from the truth, but acknowledging them is obsessing over it? And fat people are “trying to convince ourselves we’re OK” and yet it’s “OK to be different”? No wonder I had to read this like three times. It makes no sense!
But I think I get it now. Maybe I’ll move this blog to jollyfatgirl.com and just post about happy things so I’m not accused of being self-loathing.
So what if people are judging, that’s up to them, I may stride siddle waltz even, but never waddle because I am not a duck. I am not trying to convince myself of anything, I take control of how I choose to use my mind and I choose to use it in my favour like any other intelligent person. Other people can decide to have the thoughts they want to have also, if that speculations about me, that give them a false sense of superiority, I’d ask why don’t they have any self respect of their own? I don’t find the need to degrade others to make myself feel better because I hold myself to a higher standard, I suggest they do the same, if they can.
My question to them is, really, how do fat people really HURT you
Why, by being FAT at you, of course!
Hee. Someone at Kate’s place said that and it kills me every time I think of it.
Obsessing over some jerkoff’s opinion of you is not happy in any way
Soooo, what is obsessing over people “obsessing” over some jerkoff’s opinion? You’re not sounding exactly ecstatic yourself.
I just went over and checked out that site, what a bunch of f$%#ing douchebags.
Gee Mandy, could you be any more helpful?
“Anonymous people bashing others who are different (or are they?) on the Internet? WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO? Oh, yeah, it’s been like this…always.”
Uh, no it hasn’t. There is such a thing called respect. And yes, some people do practice it!
“They are smirking to their friends as you waddle by, getting a good chuckle out of the clothes you think you actually look good in even though they aren’t a tent and don’t hide your body.”
It’s funny that you know exactly how ALL fat people walk and dress! AMAZING! Hate to burst your bubble, but I could out-walk your ass any day of the week. And I would look good doing it, because I know how to dress my figure.
“They are so self-conscious and self-hating that they can’t stand the truth. They hide behind their biased studies and convince their selves they’re OK because there is a skinny girl with a BMI in the Obese range.”
Nope, I like myself. And isn’t it funny that only “our” studies are biased? There are special studies for thin people? I’m not a scientist, and I haven’t done any studies on my fat lately. Personally, I don’t care. It’s OK that I’m fat because I SAY SO. I don’t give a fuck what you think about it.
“God. I’m ashamed to have ever thought blogs like this were progressive.”
I’m ashamed that people like you exist, but luckily my parents taught me tolerance of the differences among people.
“Fat people know why they’re fat unless there is something medically wrong with them that has yet to be discovered. We haven’t evolved for thousands of years to be fat; it’s simply not natural.”
Who told you I ate five cheeseburgers for breakfast, lunch, and dinner? Some people are naturally bigger than others. Health and weight have no connection, sweetie. But since you are a genius, please tell me why we have evolve in the first place? So we can all look alike? It’s not natural to be a dick either, but you don’t seem to have a problem with it.
“So it goes without saying that people who are fat are either not eating properly, not exercising enough, or their body is not functioning correctly.”
I ate “properly” and exercised for years. All the yo-yo dieting I forced on my body has wrecked it. How exactly is that healthy? I guess all thin people have “correct” bodies, right? Even if they eat crap and sit on the couch all day? Gee, doesn’t seem NATURAL TO ME!
Why is that such a terrible truth?
Because it’s a fucking lie which has been disproved over and over again. But yet, some asses refuse to drink the water.
“Obsessing over some jerkoff’s opinion of you is not happy in any way.”
At least you admitted to being on at the end of your self-righteous rant. Good for you – maybe there is still hope.
Isn’t it a shame that the people who get teased and mock just have to accept it. Why don’t YOU change instead? Why do all the assholes keep getting patted on the back and defended for their nasty ways?
Mandi
Actually, for the most part, we did evolve to be fat.
The mass starvation in Europe during the 1300’s that preceded the Black Death reduced the population (gene pool) to such an extent that all of us with northern European ancestry are descended from survivors of both famine and plague who had slower metabolisms and higher immune systems.
For much of history, people have lived on the brink of starvation and so our bodies are built in such a way to store fat…for some of us (like me Irish/German/Swedish) that is ridiculously easy…I know for a fact that only 6 to 5 generations ago, everyone in my family moved to the US to escape massive starvation…and then even in the US until very recently, they lived just a season away from starving.
One bad winter is all that it takes.
Everything in my body is geared to make fat and since I don’t live on a farm where I’m working CONSTANTLY with my body…It’s difficult to maintain it.
It is only in the last hundred years that people have access to the type of food and health care that we have today. Things that we take for granted used to be only available on a monthly…sometimes yearly basis.
The reason for pancakes on the day before Lent begins? Because people had to use up the last of the sugar, milk and eggs on hand…there wasn’t going to be anything left until spring. There isn’t a mistake that Lent falls during a season that in a farming based society is deficient of most types of food.
We are, when you get down to it, animals…and in some ways, we are driven by our physical bodies. Our bodies tell us that we must eat to survive…we are geared to, if we taste something very good, to eat as much of it as possible.
Yes…we can transcend these instincts, but we have to be aware of them…acknowledge them.
We (in the post industrial societies) live in a world that is overflowing with food at a constant rate. Most of us no longer have to do hard physical labor from sunrise to sunset. We live for a longer period of time thanks to medicine…
The down side to this is that our bodies haven’t adapted yet to these changes. That doesn’t mean that I’m resigned to being fat or just getting fatter…
It does mean that I have to work harder then most and try to eat better (cutting out refined sugar for one thing…and unnatural foods…so that my natural fat producing body that isn’t used to this new food technology can be healthier)
Anyway…yes…fat is actually a survival trait in a society that lives from season to season with the constant threat of starvation.
We don’t live in that sort of society anymore…
The world we live in is unnatural…not our bodies.
By the way Mandi, I sure hope to all hell you weren’t knocking the wonderful “BMI Project” with your snide comment about the “one” person who looks normal but is actually “obese.” I take it you really didn’t look through it – and it’s because of hateful types like yourself that Fat Girl on a Bike stopped blogging and took her picture out of the project. No matter how hard we fight to break stereotypes, people like you won’t quit in the quest to be ignorant assholes. You REFUSE to learn and FIGHT to keep the right to be an ignorant asshole instead. Pathetic.
In the great cross-over debacle… here’s an opinion from The Other Site.
Let’s get a few facts out of the way. I’m not a man. I’m not anorexic. I’m not even rail-thin, I wear a healthy size 8. I eat well, I exercise and I do my best to promote better health habits. I’m worried about my partner who’s gaining weight at an alarming rate and who seems to be in absolute denial about it.
His blood pressure is high, his energy and stamina are steadily decreasing, his last jeans were a size 42. He’s 26 years-old. I’m 24.
Now that this is out of the way, I joined That Site so I could find support in my quest for the right tools and attitude in this ordeal. Save for a few extremists (who don’t stick around) – the community is made of people much like myself. People who despair in trying to make their partners see the light of day. Honey, you’re killing yourself slowly – how can I help you improve.
Your fight for fat acceptance is appreciated. No one should have to grow up in a world where plastic chests and anorexia are models to look up to. Fat, like most things in life, is good in moderation. Too little, or too much of it, make for unhealthy individuals.
What constitutes too little or too much often depends on who you ask. You guys congregate because your idea of too much is different from society’s standpoint. We congregate because society sends us the message that we’re bigots because we want our formerly healthy partners back. Not our rail-thin wives, not our muscle men husbands… just the proud, confident, active, involved people we fell in love with.
I’ll whole-heartedly admit that the “rate my fat spouse” picture section is tasteless, juvenile and absolutely ridiculous. Every community has its assholes… ours are concentrated in that section under anonymity and (thank heavens) don’t spill out.
All this aggressiveness from both sides is absolutely ridiculous. Weight, food, sedentary lifestyles… these are challenges that all developed nations will have to face in the decades to come. Growing obesity rates are a serious matter that goes beyond the illusion of beauty. Diabetes, high blood pressure, metabolic syndrome, heart disease, infertility, cancer… they’re not little flags that society waves to make you feel bad, or to ostracize you from the fit, healthy and beautiful. They’re very real illnesses. And the causal effect between obesity and them has been proven time and time again.
It is those illnesses we should work together to fight – not our ideals of the Perfect Mate, or society’s twisted ideas of Beauty, or your perception of aggression when if fact… we’re just at our wit’s end on how to effin’ help our loved ones gain back their health, their life and their energy.
I feel sorry for anyone who is in a marriage where she turns to a site called “My Fat Spouse” for support and ideas on how to approach her husband about his health issues. Seriously.
That site is begging for a parody – My Old Spouse.
Because, you know, allowing yourself to age is a sign of disrespect, but creating a website specifically to torment your mate is just dandy.
Chymere, I sincerely hope your partner finds someone who appreciates him for who he is.
Cheymere, except that site started with the premise: “It is disrespectful to be unattractive to your spouse”. And while you admit the “I’ll whole-heartedly admit that the “rate my fat spouse” picture section is tasteless, juvenile and absolutely ridiculous. Every community has its assholes… ours are concentrated in that section under anonymity and (thank heavens) don’t spill out.”
No, that is a feature of that site, started by the site’s owner.
I was thinking about this this morning, how misguided that concept is. When our children are doing behavior we believe is harmful to them, we don’t publicly call them out. We privately work with them, not humiliating them in public or amongst their friends. When our performance at work is slipping, our bosses don’t publicly humiliate us. They call us in privately and discuss the matter. We don’t post pictures of our children or our employees when they are doing self-destructive things. Yet, this site, which purports to be supporting of people who want to save people they presumably “love”, employs these methods of public humiliation and threatening of loss of love (or employment, to stick with my simile) methods (like many “diets”) that do not produce long-term results.
I wonder if — knowing as I do that stress is a major trigger/cause of weight gain — if any of these dickslaps have considered that the stress of being married to somebody like them might account for the weight gain?
OK, so you’re at your wit’s end? So participating in a community that validates fat hatred is the way to go? “I’m at my wit’s end” is often the reason abusive parents give for smacking around their children (you’ll hear it a lot in cases of shaken baby syndrome).
Nobody here is slamming anybody for trying to improve their lives. And your post acknowledges this. Unfortunately, your approach isn’t consistent with the tone of the rest of the site, including the FAQ, the “home” and yes, that vile section where people — supposedly those that are referred to as “loved ones” — are publicly humiliated. Much of the introductory verbage is a tome of “simply put, we’re just not attracted to fat people” so it’s perfectly OK to slam them, even if they’re sombody they supposedly were in “love” with. I’m with Meghan: I feel sorry for anyone in a “marraige” like this. I’ll tell ya, if my husband posted my picture on there, I’d divorce his ass in a New York minute and take up one of the several men who have propositioned me, despite my fat. (I know that would be hard to believe, and I’m sure the folks at MFS would just assume my husband and many of these men are freaky fetishists. Fine. ) But that’s not going to happen because my husband isn’t a dickslap, and we actually love each other. Thank God. You never know what you’re getting until you’re into it, as this site so pointedly shows.
Chymere, I’m gonna predict that you can’t force your husband to change his behavior, and the harder you try the harder he will continue to not change. Sad (from your standpoint) but true. You married him for better or worse, so you will probably just need to decide whether this is “worse” enough to warrant divorcing him. If it is I would do so. Again, he will never change on your say-so, if he does temporarily change on your say-so he will resent the hell out of you for thinking so little of him, furthermore it is a crapshoot whether he will ever decide to change on his own, and that’s life.
I’m pretty sure most men would say in a blanket sense that they “wouldn’t be attracted to” women with no breasts. But the decent ones find that they certainly are still attracted to and in love with their wives after they undergo mastectomies, probably because they love them and love their kids and view themselves and their wives as a non-negotiable team. Plenty more people have found that they are still very attracted to their spouses when those spouses change their appearance substantially by losing or gaining a significant amount of weight. If you want my honest opinion, this is largely a matter of attitude.
I would say, be thankful that your husband is simply fat and not suffering from debilitating cancer or something. If you feel that he has gained weight because of depression or something, encourage him to seek therapy for the underlying problem. But if this is truly unmanageable for you, get out. You aren’t doing him or yourself any favors by joining poisonous web sites that purport to tell you how you can force another autonomous human being to change. Not gonna happen.
I also agree with v’ron that if you are the kind of person who overeats in response to stress, knowing that your own spouse doesn’t consider you good enough anymore is EXACTLY the kind of stress that could trigger that kind of behavior. You are shooting yourself in the foot. I know this is hard, but marriage is hard sometimes.
[i]the community is made of people much like myself. People who despair in trying to make their partners see the light of day. Honey, you’re killing yourself slowly – how can I help you [b]improve[/b].[/i]
That right there is, for me, the core of the problem. It is not respectful to identify your partner’s areas for improvement, much less to take on yourself a regime to bring him or her up to par. It implies not only that your partner is unaware of his or her shortcomings, but that you are tasked with correcting them. You aren’t. Your spouse is a separate individual, with free will, and although he or she may make decisions that displease you and affect your life negatively, you can control only your reaction to them.
You are not your partner’s Quality Assurance Department.
Oh, darn. Could someone in charge replace my failed italics with quotation marks and my failed bold with asterisks? Thank you.
“fat is actually a survival trait in a society that lives from season to season with the constant threat of starvation.”
According to a respected hematologic oncologist I know, fatter patients have an edge over leaner ones — they’re better eq the wasting caused by agressive chemo
“fat is actually a survival trait in a society that lives from season to season with the constant threat of starvation.”
According to a respected hematologic oncologist I know, fatter patients have an edge over leaner ones — they’re better equipped to survive the wasting caused by agressive chemo.
(sorry about the above post — my fingers are not so nimble today.)
*sigh* Why am I suddenly moved to start a site to kvetch about when one’s partner has erectile disfunction … is that grounds for divorce?
spiderbite, and I would add that the statement that “humans did not evolve to be fat” is sort of meaningless. Unless fat people start dying out, the statement is untrue. If it is correct that we are getting fatter, then apparently humans did evolve to be fat. Whatever.
The problem with Chymere and people like her is that she expects her nagging to be the ‘answer’ and then when that is not effective, more nagging moaning and fake concern is the answer. For people that like to preach about being active and positive, they are remarkably short on strategy or ideas. As someone said they’ve tried nothing and are all out of ideas. Whenever it comes to more than boasting about how wonderful they are, they seem to be impotent. Which is funny, I could boast about how great I am, but if I couldn’t actually back it up in a real situation I’d be embarassed, Chymere the challenge you mention is just an opportunity to show the superiority of the fit lifestyle, you ought to be able to totally out fox your fat spouse, or are you just bullshitting? No wonder you people are often so irritable!!
Why am I suddenly moved to start a site to kvetch about when one’s partner has erectile disfunction … is that grounds for divorce?
Hey, what isn’t? I’m tempted to start “My Bald Spouse”.
Except that my bald spouse is a total sweetheart who would absolutely never consult a stupid blog for marriage advice.
“It is disrespectful to be unattractive to your spouse”. – from the top of the MFS page
You know, part of me is actually somewhat amused at the irony.
Because by virtue of the hideously unattractive personalities that the posters on that site exhibit, I would say — emphatically and unequivocally — that their spouses would be
IMMEDIATELY ENTITLED TO A DIVORCE.
And, spacedcowgirl, I don’t think it’s all luck in terms of ferreting those types of attitudes out pre-marriage (assuming that one is so inclined, which is another bottle of eau-de-vie altogether).
People that think the way a lot of those people think tend to be obsessed with conformity and control-freaky, and far less inclined to empathy and critical thought.
(You notice from the site dialogue that there’s a lot of emphasis on “being embarrassed” and MUCH less recounting of previous inquiry to the spouse’s doctor about what their hormonal profiles or hb1Ac levels might have been.)
You can get a sense of how people deal with those types of things with several well-placed questions and observations on dates. And stuff.
Plus, the same people that bashed Sara(h) for being a triathlete? Comment enthusiastically in the “Wimpy Exercise” portion of the site about how water aerobics don’t work for the overweight.
Whatever. Who the hell are they? The Heartrate and Cartilage Police?
If you’re not my personal trainer and have no idea what my specific body is capable of and you’re basing your blatting more on prejudice than actual facts (and that REALLY includes “exercise professionals” who believe that progressive weight training programs should be exactly the same for men and women of equal body weight with no additional strength & endurance analysis)?
That’s when I tune your petty yammering entirely out.
“I also agree with v’ron that if you are the kind of person who overeats in response to stress, knowing that your own spouse doesn’t consider you good enough anymore is EXACTLY the kind of stress that could trigger that kind of behavior.”
*DINGDINGDING*
Johnny, what does spacedcowgirl win?
The two biggest indications there to me that people were talking COMPLETLY out of their butts were
1) a comment on how “stress doesn’t cause overweight” — yoo-hoo, ever hear of CORTISOL?
*dumbass*
and
2) the fact that it didn’t seem to occur to ANYONE on there that THEY MIGHT BE CONTRIBUTING TO CAUSING the very problem they were complaining about.
The overlap between the “I didn’t CAUSE him/her to overeat” group (not MY fault)
and the
“his/her overweight is CAUSING me to leave him/her” groups (all HIS/HER fault)?
Staggering.
Anyone want to take a good look at that?
Anyone? Bueller?
Hmmm. The comment that got me thinking: “[H]umans did evolve to be fat. Whatever.” YES! In fact, we have. Perhaps the big mystery of why we’ve become so fat so fast will be answered by some cataclysmic event after which our collective fatness will save us.
Is this not an awesome premise for the first fat action hero movie???? Somebody get right on that! Pamie? Anyone?
Because by virtue of the hideously unattractive personalities that the posters on that site exhibit, I would say — emphatically and unequivocally — that their spouses would be IMMEDIATELY ENTITLED TO A DIVORCE.
littlem, but… but…. that’s not FAIR!
Anyway, I just can’t imagine someone not being attracted to a hot, thin spouse when all that’s wrong with the HTS is that they harp on and belittle you all the time, and let you know in a million little ways that you are unlovable and unacceptable! Not to mention treat you like a child! I’m sure it’s the fat spouse’s fault when they don’t feel like sharing their feelings or having sex with a person like that. After all, they’re hot and thin! That’s all there is to attractiveness, right?
I think the point of useful debate has ended (if it ever existed at all), as the consensus over there seems to be that 1) we seek converts to a sedentary, junk-eating, fatty fat lifestyle; 2) we don’t recognize any benefits to losing weight; 3) “fat” is some universal, quantifiable, medically significant condition; 4) “attractive” equals “not fat”, or “fat” = “unattrative,” across the board, all the time, no exceptions; 5) taking offense to unsolicited and non-stop commentary from a partner who is dissatisfied with some aspect of our physical appearance is “rejecting [the complaining partner’s] offer to help.”
It’s hard to argue for a position I’m not taking, but for the record: 1) I don’t want to fatten any of you up. Neither do I want to put any of you on a diet. Not my business. 2) As for losing weight having health benefits, I don’t think anyone here will argue that weight loss *can* have positive effects. It also may have negative effects or none at all. 3) “Fat” is neither a moral failure nor a medical condition. Very thin people can have a high body fat percentage. People who weigh more than the “small/medium/large” insurance company charts suggest, or have a BMI higher than 25% may eat better, smoke and drink less, have lower resting pulse rates, lower blood pressure, lower serum cholesterol, greater endurance, better muscle tone, etc., etc. than any given person with a BMI of 24% or lower. Weight and BMI are 2 measurements in a wide universe of measurements that can describe the condition of our bodies. 4) Taste is subjective. What I find attractive might leave you cold, and vice versa. 5) “Help” necessarily implies that I have some need or some want that you can assist me in fulfilling. I don’t need to be criticized or ridiculed on the basis of my looks. I don’t need to have my partner complaining about some superficial defect — i.e., how “attractive” I am or not. (Because, remember, despite all the moaning about “helping my partner get healthy!”, the tagline is that it’s disrespectful to become “unattractive”). I certainly don’t *want* any of that. I do need and want to be loved, respected and supported in the same way I love, respect and support my partner. If my “fatness” ever manifests as a true health condition (e.g., sleep apnea or something like that), by all means, please, help me. Help in a way that is helpful. Nagging is not helpful. Making derogatory comments about women who are out there exercising (helping themselves, if you will), is not helpful. It’s just mean. And it exposes the insult-flingers’ insecurities, exposing a really sad world view — that is, that you better ridicule the fat girl nice and loud, so that you reinforce in your and your buddies’ minds that fat is BAD. Otherwise, you might forget, and allow yourself to get fat. And then other people will post mean comments on the Internet about YOU.
Oops. That should be ” I don’t think anyone here will argue against the notion that weight loss *can* have positive effects. ”
(I need a preview pane. Sorry.)
Spiderbite — maybe not useful to them, but this thread was extremely useful to me to help me sort out my feelings about these guys, and your last post (not the one where you edit yourself! ;) ) really nails it. I’m one of the people trying to lose weight, but I’ll never be “thin” by their standards. What you nail so perfectly is that weight loss is successful (and I’m seeing it in many other weightloss blogs) when, and I’ll blanket that with ONLY when, the loser does it FOR THEMSELF, not to be attractive to somebody else, etc. The grand epiphany has to come from within, becasue when it comes from elsewhere, you can always write it off or find fault with the messenger or wonder what the agenda is.
I really thought through my reasons for wanting to lose weight, and I’m finding that it’s not for my husband, who really deosn’t care. It’s not for other people, who constantly tell me that its not necessary to lose weight, and I tell them, “I’m glad you feel that way, and it’s comforting to know that you are my friends no matter what I look like, but I need to do this for me, to prove I can do it, that I can do anything I set my mind to.” And it’s true.
When it comes from within, when you have identified real reasons that satisfy yourself, when goals that have meaning for you (be they fitness, or weightloss, or whatever)that’s when it becomes successful.
This whole thing started because an online athlete who is a large woman caught hell from a group of people who fail to understand that anything one does about their body must come from within. FatGirlOnABike Sarah had the attitude of a true athlete — especially the attitude reinforced amongst trackandfield athletes — that ultimately, the competition is against yourself, and that the true champions are themselves. It doesn’t matter if you placed first. Did you beat yourself? Did you make progress on your own goals? Then you have participated in an athletic endeavour. If you goal is to become skinny or ripped or whatever, good for you. Perhaps if you CHOOSE, Brother Crash might be a trainer that could do you some good. Crash claims he’s helped many people with their goals. I don’t doubt it. If they SEEKED HIM OUT and hired him or whatever, good. They checked him out and determined that his style would be a match for what they need to accomplish. People volunteer for the military — “I need to get my ass kicked” — ultimately are the ones who benefit from it rather than ones who are simply shipped off to military school to get shaped up.
That’s where I think the difference between here and there is. Over “there” — other people are settting goals for people, deciding what the standards are, and ultimately, not laying the groundwork for something that must come from within. To that end, FatGirlOnABike was successful and inspiring, with her goals and progress. The people at MFS seem to be really, really threatened that her goals don’t match theirs, and that further, she is accomplishing them without their methodologies, and that, most threateningly, she was satisfied with her goals. So they have spent a good amount of bandwidth trying to belittle those goals to justify their meanness, and as you so pointedly conclude, expose their own insecutiries in the process.