Are Americans Fat And Lazy?
Sal DeTraglia from Spain goes to Disneyworld and makes some observations.
“I do need, however, to mention one observation that I found a bit shocking. The Disney parks rent motorized wheelchairs, and they rent a lot of them. However, the vast majority of those that I saw driving those wheelchairs were not “handicapped” as that word is commonly interpreted. They were obese. I mean profoundly, morbidly, shockingly obese–and some of them were clearly younger than I am. I’ve never been to EuroDisney, but I suspect that this obesity epidemic doesn’t exist there. And if that’s the case, then I think it’s clear where the finger of blame must be pointed.”
Sal, and the people in the comments, seem to assume that every fat person in a wheelchair is in the wheelchair simply because they are fat and lazy. Check out the comments:
The Big Finn: “Is laziness considered a handicap? Could one rent a wheelchair just because he/she doesn’t feel like walking?”
Headless Blogger: “The other benefit of the motorized scooters is that they let the rider and his/her group skip to the front of the line (at least that was the case a decade ago). Nothing like positive feedback to encourage a healthful lifestyle.”
Christina: “There were no obese people in Denmark, thank goodness.”
Well thank goodness, Christina! I’d hate to think of anyone unwittingly going to a country where there were obese people!
Now I have no idea why these people were in wheelchairs, or what size they were, or how “lazy” they are, or any of these other things. Or even whether they were American in the first place. But the point is, neither does Sal. Neither do his commenters. This kind of assumption just strikes me as ugly, and rather sad. What do you think? Does Sal have a point?
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Fatism, International
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I’ve never personally been to disneyland, but I know a few people who have and they all seem to say the same things “There are ALOT of larger people who frequent disneyland” It seems wrong to accuse someone who is obese and is in a wheelchair of being just to lazy to walk. My friend and her grandmother went though, and she told me the story, that the only reason her grandma would go, was for the food, she couldn’t get on any rides because of her size, and she was a huge hateful woman who rode around in her wheelchair the whole time, gorging on food and being a bitch to her granddaughter, my friend.
Did Sal get a medical certificate from any of those obese people?
So what is ‘handicapped as that word is commonly interpreted’? It is not just a physically visible problem that would necessitate the use of a wheelchair. I have known people with heart problems that were technically disabled in that they wouldn’t be able to walk all day under a hot sun. In fact, my mother is ‘handicapped’ but you wouldn’t know it by looking at her – she’s missing a foot, but her prosthetic shoe allows her to not advertise that fact. I’m sure if people are also getting perks like jumping to the front of the line for rides then they would be even more likely to rent a wheelchair, whether they need it or not. So, yes, I think Sal’s assumptions are ridiculous.
Yeah, I was coming here to say the same thing Tricia said. Not only could people have a disability that isn’t visible or obvious, but many disabilities leave people unable to exercise, which can lead to obesity through inactivity. It doesn’t mean that someone is lazy; it means their body has betrayed them.
It is a blessing to have a healthy body — even a healthy fat body as far as that goes. It’s too bad when people get all judgmental because they can’t walk (ride) a mile in someone else’s prosthetic shoes.
(Anecdotally, when I was in Denmark, I probably weighed 60 pounds less than I do now, and I was the fattest person I saw the whole time. They are a lean people. My totally unscientific theory is that they have some kind of polar metabolism to deal with the cold weather, and it just burns right through the butter and delicious cheese and afternoon teas that they have.)
I’m sure obese people in wheelchairs and scooters have legitmate knee or joint problems, or even nerve problems like fibromyalgia. But just because I don’t think they’re lazy doesn’t mean I’m not concerned that more people seem to be having mobility issues than they used to, especially in the U.S.
But I don’t think the crowds at Disneyworld are necessarily representative of the population, since it’s well-known that their parks are very wheelchair-friendly and therefore more likely to attract people who need them. (And this Sal guy seems to assume that people rent the wheelchairs on a whim, but who’s to say a lot of them don’t already use them on an everyday basis? Those Rascal scooters are hard to lug around.)
This guy’s point gives me pause, but blaming fat people is way off base. Blame our culture and our food industry and our messed-up health policies. Don’t blame the people who live here and who try to make the best choices they know –even if they’re wrong or sadly misinformed. And who just want to enjoy a nice vacation like everyone else.
Nicki said: “I’ve never personally been to disneyland, but I know a few people who have and they all seem to say the same things ‘There are ALOT of larger people who frequent disneyland'”
Some 60 percent of Americans are now overweight. I think it would make sense that fat people also do things that skinny people do, and because more than half are overweight, accounts for the “saturation” of fat people at Disneyland.
My dad is a big guy. So big, he can barely walk without huffing and puffing like a diesel truck. When he and my sister went to the airport, she pushed him around in a wheelchair because he has such difficulty walking.
Sure, my dad is fat because he eats too much and eats unhealthily. But since when is what my dad eats, or the diets of any other paying patron at Disneyworld Sal’s business?
Sal’s and the comments of the skinny-police at her blog only serve to reinforce that fat is the last bastion for discrimination and prejudice.
I always look at it the other way. How many of those people are obese *because* they have mobility problems? I suffered a relatively mild fracture that did not allow me to bear weight on one leg for 8 weeks. I gained about 2 pounds a week during that time. No only could I not exercise, but because I lived alone I could not purchase and prepare healthy food. I lived on drive through (didn’t have to get out of my car) and delivery pizza because I couldn’t navigate a grocery store or stand in my kitchen and chop vegetables. And that was just a limited injury. I’ve known older folks that suffered an on the job injury after a lifetime of physical labor, all of a sudden they’re laid up in bed, depressed and in pain… and still eating the way they’ve always eaten all their lives, enough to fuel an 8 hour day of physical work. Of course they gain weight. The loss of mobility is a huge issue.
Maybe in Spain those folks are condemmed to a life inside their homes. I think it’s a good thing that here in the U.S. we make allowances.
I think it’s clear where the finger of blame must be pointed.
It’d be nice if we could just point a finger of blame at one thing for causing the raising obesity rates, but in reality you need all the fingers on both of your hands and maybe a couple of toes too. No single thing makes people fat just like no single thing makes them thin.
From Disneyland’s point of view, it makes sense to provide scooters to people since it gets morbidly obese people to come to the park who wouldn’t otherwise because they know they wouldn’t able to get around. It also makes the world more welcoming to people who might otherwise feel an urge to hole up in their houses and hide from all the fat-haters.
Rachel Said: Some 60 percent of Americans are now overweight. I think it would make sense that fat people also do things that skinny people do, and because more than half are overweight, accounts for the “saturation” of fat people at Disneyland.
Yea, well obviously. I wasn’t trying to insinuate that disneyland is “saturated” with fat people. Who knows why all kinds of people using wheelchairs are also heavy. My mom got cancer and put on 100 lbs because of the various medicines and surgeries. She had to use a wheelchair too, because it was hard to walk since her lungs kept filling up with fluid. I’m sure she would have loved to go to disneyland, even in a wheelchair. I’m simply stating what several people have said after going to disneyland.
thatgirljj got here first but I also thing it’s a good thing people in the US has those options.
I live in Mexico (second fattest country right after the US!!) and if you have some kind of handicapp, you’re pretty much screwed.
My sister had a knee surgery a couple of years ago and it was almost impossible to get out of the house. Apparently there are only two wheelchairs available in the whole city and one is broken.
So call yourselves lucky and get over it.
And also, there is the whole “enabling” debate. If you make it available, the fatties will get fatter and use it is a crap argument. Here, if you are larger than an XL or a D cup you’re screwed. Clothing larger than that is hard to come by and expensive as hell. Still, second fattest country in the world. Wendy makes an excellent point at the end of her comment.
I just want to mention that anecdotal evidence, such as “my friends saw really fat people at Disneyland!” and “I didn’t see fat people in Denmark/Spain/etc.” is not very helpful. If I respond by saying that I have known fat people in Denmark (which is true) then we’re right back where we started.
I think several other commenters have brought up points that suggest that “visibility” is part of the equation. If there are stores for fat people and accommodations for very fat people, narrow(-minded) people notice the fat people more and get all skeeved that they’re right there and having a good time. Or trying.
OKAY… am I lost in space or something?? because when I went to DisneyWORLD all I noticed were folks having a great time… I saw kids enjoying themselves… I saw rather unhealthy food choices.. and healthy food choices.. and I saw a few folks on scooters that were large people.. not for a minute did I think.. oh well they are lazy blah blah blah… they looked pretty darn happy to me….it is odd what people focus on.. I really get disguisted when I hear folks talk like this or think like this.. Some people have problems that make them large.. some just OVER INDULDGE .. they don’t control what they eat.. and they are consequently obese.. that is there choice… I can say that because I am one of those consequently obese people because I did not control myself until Jan 22 07.. I am looking forward to becoming overweight and then becomeing a healthy weight.. .I don’t sit in judgement of those who make certain decisions that affect their size.. and I hate that some many people do..No one has a right to judge anyone or assume anything. after all.. When one does ASSUME it only ends up making an ASS them U and ME…
This post caught my eye and I haven’t read the rest of the comments, so forgive me if I’m repeating someone else.
Being a Disney Specialist (I’m a travel agent who specializes in Disney vacations) I’ve seen a lot of different people there on my own vacations. Those scooters are available to all people. True, some people may be using them as a “lazy way out” of walking, but a lot of medical conditions aren’t necessarily visable. Disneyworld in Florida exists on 47 (or 48?) acres of land and comprises of 4 theme parks, 2 water parks, and 1 “downtown” area. That’s a lot of walking for even the healthiest of person even when you consider just 1 park. Knees give out, people have heart or breathing problems, foot problems, any number of things that would make it either virtually impossible or absolutely miserable for a person to manage comfortably. This Sal guy needs to get over himself and quit acting like the wheelchair police because he has no clue what’s going on in these peoples lives nor does he know their medical history. Blaming a persons use of a wheelchair on being JUST an “obese American” is arrogant and snotty.
I’d also like to point out that Disney is accommodating to everyone. The blind, the deaf, the physically and mentally handicapped, as well as the “Pooh sized” guests. There is even a book published called “Passporter’s Walt Disney World for Your Special Needs” and I believe it covers weight concerns. You’d be surprised how many rides/attractions a heavier person can fit on comfortably without feeling like “the elephant in the room”.
Nicki – Sorry, no offense intended! I just wanted to point out, since people like Sal seemed surprised to see fat people out enjoying themselves, that since more than half of Americans are overweight, of course there be larger numbers of fat people at parks and public places. It’s like some people expect fat people to secret themselves away from society.
I think PastaQueen put it best – even if people use the wheelchairs not due to disability but to difficulties walking due to weight, I still think its great. It’s simply good business sense to be accommodating to paying patrons, regardless of size.
I also find it ironic that, in his post, Sal talks about eating at Waffle House and Shoneys, and chowing down on ice cream sandwiches and huge turkey legs, but feels free to comment on the diets/lifestyles of the “shockingly” obese.
I also find it ironic that, in his post, Sal talks about eating at Waffle House and Shoneys, and chowing down on ice cream sandwiches and huge turkey legs, but feels free to comment on the diets/lifestyles of the “shockingly” obese.
That was something I noticed too. Not only that, but the commenters were doing it as well. Call me crazy, but you’d think that when discussing your trip to Disneyworld, there would be roughly a million other things to talk about other than how many fat people you saw and what food you ate.
I think the irony there was intentional.
This sal fellow is a douche. He assumes overweight people who ride in the wheelchairs are just lazy. That’s like accusing every person who parks in a handicap spot ( and may not Look handicapped) of cheating the system, or being a liar. I can tell you right now, one day if I ever get to disneyland, the last thing I’m going to notice is the size of the people around me, or whether they are walking or using a wheelchair. It’s disneyland for god’s sake! It’s the happiest place on earth, and anyone who goes to disneyland should be treated with respect and not judged. Unless it’s ann coulter, I have no comment on her.
I think Sal should realize that when you come to other countries, you should at least pretend to have respect. If he hates fat people so much, then he should’ve stayed in Spain.
I really don’t understand why people like Sal feel they are in the right to be emotionally sadistic. Then they wonder why Americans have no respect for other countries. It certianly is clear where the finger of blame needs to be pointed. At the US government, for allowing trash like Sal to cross our borders.
I don’t know what to say. I mean, I’m sure Sal wouldn’t have liked it if he came here and someone called him a derogatory name based on his ethnicity. Yet he feels he is in the right to display the same sort of prejudiced hateful behaviour. Sal is just one of those people, who need to prove the extent to which he should not have been born.
As for Christina. I’m glad she’s glad there were no fat people in Denmark. In fact she should stay there. One less sizeist bigot to deal with.
“Maybe in Spain those folks are condemmed to a life inside their homes. I think it’s a good thing that here in the U.S. we make allowances” – thatgirljj
Wouldn’t that be considered a human rights crime? To condemn a person to live in their house because they are too fat. Oh, excuse me. I forgot, human rights don’t apply to those who are fat.
I didn’t read anything in the blog post as a suggestion that fat people should stay out of sight. I think the poster was just pointing out his observation of traveling to a place where people look different than what he’s used to. Don’t we all have those kinds of experiences? When I went to Norway, I was struck by how tall and blond everyone was. When I go to New York City, I am struck by how well-dressed everyone is. When people come here to San Francisco, they are struck by the large number of homeless people. And because I live in a community with a relatively low prevalence of obesity, when I travel to someplace like Disneyland or Las Vegas, where tourists come from all over the U.S., I, too, am struck by the fact that 30% of Americans really are obese.
I also think his speculation about the wheelchairs was not meant to suggest that fat people don’t “deserve” them, but rather I think he was taking it as evidence that these people’s obesity was having effects their health. Of course, as many people have pointed out here, obesity is sometimes a consequence of mobility problems rather than a cause, and I think he could have presented his observations in a much more sensitive manner. But I think his basic point has a kernel of truth: a record number of Americans are obese, and many suffer health consequences as a result. And if you’re not used to seeing that, it can be eye-opening.
I tried to read the original post, but it looks like it’s been pulled from Blogger–?
However–from the quoted blurb: I think it’s not an eye-opening experience for Sal, rather it’s just more ethnocentric, fat-phobic crap. Sorry if America and Americans don’t live up to his expectations. Sorry if he was so distracted by the “profoundly, morbidly, shockingly obese” Disney patrons he encountered that he couldn’t hardly focus on his vacation and instead had to focus on where to point his finger of blame.
I wonder why he’d want to come to America in the first place if this is the attitude he travels with.
I agree with the comments that obesity is a cause of many of these knee and joint problems that make it difficult to walk. And no one wants to spend their day struggling to get around Disneyland in pain. Personally, I have Multiple Sclerosis and would need a W/C or scooter there. I am also obese. Losing weight would help my mobility, of course, but it wouldn’t change the fact that I still have MS and can’t walk long distances and have no balance and blurred vision, etc. If all the people who see me on my scooter in the mall every day think it’s because I’m fat, that is a sick assumption. I don’t get that look or vibe off people, thankfully. My disease is invisible until you see me get up and try to walk. I’ve had many people look at me and say “oh, that’s a great thing to have in the mall! I need one!” And I always answer, “it’s nice to want, but it’s not nice to NEED” and that goes for anybody!
It looks like the post is still there, it just got moved to here and the comments seem to be gone.
Speaking of calling people fat and then deleting the blog posts, have you heard about the saga of Leslie Bennetts and Penelope Trunk? Jennifer Weiner just wrote a great blog post about it yesterday.
While he assumes wrongly that all fat people are lazy, he is doing nothing more than pointing out the obvious. With excessive weight comes health issues. I get sore joints all the time, but then I work through the pain because exercise is healthy.
What I noticed, which is quite disgusting, was the sheer number of children in strollers mowing through extra large servings of food (while IN their strollers). I’m not talking about toddlers here, where short little legs would get tired in a few hours, but I’m talking about 4+ year olds. I always assume that if someone is in a motorized scooter, it’s for a reason that is none of my business.
I’ve taken my daughter (who is 4) to many theme parks, which we walk all damn day long and she’s a trooper. I’m also fat and manage to keep up just fine.
I think we are creating a culture of laziness. How many times have you gone to a shopping mall and have seen the “sharks” trolling the lot for the closest spot to the door. They would be better served to park at the back and walk, which I do a lot.
First of all, all of us who are obese have experienced fatism at some point. It’s also a pretty well known fact that Americans are looked down upon buy a lot of people from other countries (I said a lot, not ALL, so please don’t jump on me if you are the exception to the rule). They consider us lazy, self-indulgent, good-for-nothings. So I would imagine that the degree of smuggness and bigotry about an overweight person would be much higher coming from from someone overseas.
I think that Sal might actually be an American, himself. He talks about having relatives in Chicago, he writes his blog in (perfect) English, and his sidebar is filled with links to blogs about being an expat.
Well, I am effectively an American – not by birth but I have lived here for over 20 years. However, I also travel a fair bit internationally. And for those of you who haven’t, I’d suggest trying it and then coming back and looking at this discussion.
Its easy to define “normal,” as “normal in my neighborhood,” and then – sometimes – to define “healthy,” as “normal.” However, before leaping to judgement, go and wander around, say, Europe for a while.
Then come back, and look around here. You will, I predict, be amazed as to the difference. And its not a genetic thing – our genes are the same as they were in the ’50s, and damn close to the way that they were back in 1776. Its a lifestyle thing.
Don’t assume its all bigotry because you don’t want to admit that there’s a real pattern. Attack the wording if you will, but that shouldn’t eliminate the message.
The message was:
A] There are a lot of fat people at Disneyworld.
B] Fat people on scooters aren’t handicapped.
C] Without ever having attended EuroDisney, I have a conclusion about EuroDisney.
A is true. B and C are bogus conclusions. Sal’s message is B.S. regardless of the wording.
You rock, byrneout!
Hello? I’ve lived overseas, most recently in Japan, home of the original size 0 female. Was I normal there as a 5’10 inch, size 8 woman? Most decidedly not. I was larger (taller by far and certainly heavier) than all of the women and most of the men I worked with.
Did I walk around mocking the women for their, by my standards, calorically-restricted diets that keep them the size of eleven year old boys? No. Did I write in my blog about how, if the men bothered to up their calcium intake, they might grow to be the size of “normal” men? No.
Yes, I think Sal might be one of those clueless American expats who begins after a time to think himself better than most Americans–probably all the while yearning for America and thinking himself superior to Europeans because he is American. I’ve seen it time and time again, this normal reaction to living overseas.
“And its not a genetic thing – our genes are the same as they were in the ’50s, and damn close to the way that they were back in 1776. Its a lifestyle thing.”
Of my mother’s 12 male cousins, none are taller than 5’8″, and most are around 5’6″. Yet many of their sons are over 6ft tall.
No one is amazed at that. No one says, “This can’t be natural — our genes haven’t changed for centuries. Something is wrong.” They see that these boys were raised in an environment in which food was more available and more nutritious than that experienced by my mother’s cousins growing up poor in Ireland in the 40s and 50s. No one is saying “tallness is a national epidemic!” No one is saying “we must do everything we can to get these boys back down to a normal (5’8″) height, or their children will be tall too!”
The environment we live in today is so different to any that has gone before that to say obesity can’t be genetic because our genes were the same in the 50s or in 1776 is wrong. Completely wrong. Who knows what potential for obesity lay dormant in our genes at that time because the general population didn’t live in an environment with enough food to reach their “genetic” natural weight?
Studies have shown that twins split up and adopted end up weighing within 20lb of one another regardless of the weight and lifestyle of their adopted families.
It IS genetics. There are many others factors at play. But genetics IS one of them, and to pretend it isn’t doesn’t help anyone.
As to Walt Disney World — I come from a country with far less obesity than America and I’ve been to WDW 5 times. I’ve never noticed an abundance of fat people because I’ve been too busy having the time of my life. You walk up to 12 miles a day in those parks. It’s hard. Let folks have a wheelchair. Even if they are creating their own obesity through laziness as Sal’s post and other comments imply, god knows they’re probably having enough problems in the rest of their lives without Disneyland being closed to them too.
Catriona, you’re right that body weight is the result of an interaction of body weight and genetics, but I think you’re framing the issue incorrectly when you say that in the past we didn’t have enough food to reach our genetically predetermined natural weight. To the contrary, we had the right amount of food (and probably more importantly, the right amount of activity) in the past, and now we have too much! This is evidenced by the record number of weight-related health problems people face nowadays.
Again, I think this is what Sal was reacting to in his post. As someone coming from a country where obesity is far less prevalent, he was surprised to see how many obese people there are here, and how in many cases, that obesity has affected their ability to get around. And he points the finger of blame not at the people, but at mass American food culture, a point which might be missed if you don’t read the original post, because Mo’s quote cuts off the “punch line” of his argument.
Oops, I meant to say “behavior and genetics” up there in that first sentence.
Sorry, La Wade, Sal is still full of crap. Just because he blames American culture for whatever *he* thinks is a problem, doesn’t mean that he isn’t just spewing yet more fat-phobic, size-ist B.S.
Well, I think it is a problem, too, if someone’s obesity requires them to use a wheelchair to get around Disneyworld. But that does NOT mean that I am fat-phobic, sizeist, or that I in any way think that fat people deserve less respect or fewer rights than anyone else. It just means that I worry about the effects our unhealthy society is having on people.
I thought we were talking about Sal–but whatever. Perhaps it bears repeating, what the other posters said: There are a lot of reasons besides obesity that those people were in wheelchairs. And that superior attitude you see coming from Sal? Well, that’s not your imagination. That’s the size-ist, fat phobic crap about which we have been speaking.
Catriona replied, “You walk up to 12 miles a day in those parks. It’s hard. Let folks have a wheelchair. Even if they are creating their own obesity through laziness as Sal’s post and other comments imply, god knows they’re probably having enough problems in the rest of their lives without Disneyland being closed to them too.”
I think that Sal’s point – and I have to say I kinda agree with this – is that for most people in most countries on the planet, walking 12 miles over the course of an entire day is *not* considered hard. Which was pretty much his point, in comparing the Americans’ weight and activity levels to those people from other countries.
And its not all about size, either – there are plenty of larger folk who are very fit, although there’s a definate relationship. Its about health.
Brenda said, “There are a lot of reasons besides obesity that those people were in wheelchairs.”
That’s true. But there are also a lot of people for whom that’s not true. I have a friend who’s unhealthily overweight, and she’s considering a scooter because its hard for her to walk when they go shopping… anecdotal, sure, but it happens to be true. Again, just because some people have medical conditions that makes wheeled transport a requirement doesn’t mean that everyone who uses them has such a condition.
Finally, going back to something that thatgirljj said that’s related here too. She gained 2 pounds a week while laid up (heck, I’ve gained weight when I can’t exercise too – she’s not the only one), living on pizza and take-out. But its not just the food – we, and I include myself here, have a very hard time adjusting our eating habits when our caloric needs change.
If you were burning 2,500 calories a day, and now you can’t do much so you’re only burning 1,500 calories a day, you’ll gain weight if and only if you continue to eat as you were before you were injured. If you’re willing to cut back, you’ll be a little hungry until your body realizes that it doesn’t need the extra food any more, but you won’t gain weight. The immobility is an explanation, but not an excuse.
And please don’t take that as a slam – I’m still 10 pounds over where I was before I got sick last fall (and working on it). But my illness didn’t cause my weight gain, my eating habits did.
No one was really discussing how to lose weight, or if anyone *should* lose weight. The point is that no one is helped (and maybe a lot of people are harmed) by the elitist, size-ist, fat-phobic attitude that Sal so easily engages in.
You know, I’m not so sure. Sometimes people actually do need that wake-up call. Now, whether or not it can come from someone else is another question, but I know that I managed to get up to about 80 pounds overweight without ever going, “Hey, I’m getting fat.” Everyone around me was pretty chubby too, and the amount of fat-is-normal, normal-is-healthy information is pretty strong. I really had no idea that I was that overweight – even while losing I always figured I had “10-15 pounds” to lose. That’s a lot of denial, made possible by a lot of enablement.
Its okay to be overweight. But you’re still overweight, and if you’re unwilling to admit it to yourself, including the true extent of how overweight you are (and yes, I used to be one of the “BMI is full of crap” folk too when I was fat), that’s when it gets unhealthy.
You know, I’m sorry you feel so badly about yourself–but none of that rubs off on me, or on anyone who accepts who they are. If you can accept yourself, then you can accept others regardless of their weight. Sal’s crap attitude is just that: Crappy. It doesn’t matter either if one wraps up that same crap attitude up in the ol’ touchy-feely “I really care about you/I’m concerned about you/You’re my friend–so I’m telling you you should lose some weight.” Still unacceptable.
Keep your “wake-up call” about my fat ass and your opinions about MY weight to yourself.
“You know, I’m sorry you feel so badly about yourself.”
As someone who can see both sides of this discussion, I have to say: that line is a little crappy, too.
Maybe not (in the grand scheme of things) as crappy as the attitude that gets laid on fat people, but it’s the same kind of remark. I don’t see how making presumptions about a person’s self-esteem is any more acceptable than making presumptions about a person’s health.
No, not really, Wendy. Sorry I don’t agree with you on this subject, and if you want to bicker about my post, well, whatever. But it seems like a hollow battle to me.
As far as I’m concerned, anyone who writes into a public blog that has to do with learning to accept oneself, fat or skinny or whatever, with the attitude that fat people need a wake-up call (“Hey, wake up! You’re fat!”) has a few issues to deal with on their own. I didn’t “presume” he was giving fat chicks a wake-up call–Look, you can actually read it in his post!
That poster needs to examine who’s really in denial before trying to give me any lip about my fat ass.
Nope, I still believe that accusing someone of being “self-hating” or “in denial” is a cheap, lousy way to trump an argument, and I don’t think it helps promote fat acceptance one bit.
And I read the above posts, and you know what? He wasn’t even talking about YOUR fat ass. You just chose to take it that way.
However you interpret it is fine with me, Wendy. But you don’t speak for all of us fat chicks–nor do I, which is why I chose to use MY fat ass as an example.
The way I see it, he’s talking about giving a “wake up call” to fat folks, among whom I count myself, so, yeah, I do find it insulting.
You choose to take your version of the high road, and I’ll make my own path–if it’s all the same to you.
And, wow. Where did “self-hating” come from? My use of “in denial” comes from his post.
You said to him, “I’m sorry you feel so badly about yourself,” which sounds an awful lot like an accusation of self-hate to me.
But you know, I’m starting to come around. “I’m sorry you feel so badly about yourself” is a totally awesome line, and I think I’m going to say it any time someone disagrees with me and/or I decide to be slighted on behalf of all fat people everywhere! I sure like your high road, Brenda!
I just think it would be a great world if every fat person wasn’t presumed to be unhealthy. And also, if every person who felt losing weight has its benefits (because sometimes it does) wasn’t presumed to be self-hating or making a personal attack.
Saying that someone is fat – when they are – should be no better or worse than saying that someone is tall. After all, while there are questionable calls, sometimes it is pretty obvious. We’ve made it a taboo word and, as long as it is, that makes being overweight taboo as well.
Not that pointing it out is particularly polite… but neither is walking up to someone and saying, “Hey, you’re really tall!”
All I was trying to point out is that pretending that, to tie this back to the original point, more Americans are overweight than members of most other countries, is silly. We are. That doesn’t mean that we’re bad people, but trying to pretend that we’re not or that anyone who says it must have an ulterior motive is pretty weird as well.
My point about denial was that making it wrong to even bring the subject up is a major sign of denial. After all, if people really are okay with their weight, it shouldn’t matter what anyone says (as long as its true). Like the fantastic, afirmative video that MoPie posted a while back (I forget the lady’s name) – you can be fat and a great person, and healthy to boot. That’s wonderful. Saying that you’re not fat? That would be like me saying that my hair isn’t going gray – both inaccurate, and (probably) a sign that I had a problem with my hair. Many people do – that doesn’t mean that their hair’s not greying, though.
I’m rambling, but I think I’ve said enough.
Sigh. When I said “pretending that … more Americans are overweight … is silly,” I meant to say “are NOT overweight.” Hopefully it makes more sense now.
Wendy, please don’t assume that if I’m sorry for someone who I feel has a problem that I find them filled with “self-hate.” That’s clearly what you’re bringing to the table. Not me.
As far as I’m concerned, anyone who feels the need to point out to fat people that, hey, they’re fat (in a similar way that I would point out that, hey, you’re tall, or, hey, you’re blonde) is just somehow missing the point that, hmmmm, you don’t actually need to say that stuff at all. Because? Well, because it is obvious. And it doesn’t matter. But if it doesn’t matter, then it doesn’t matter and so one doesn’t have to go around saying that it doesn’t matter–especially when it’s got a “But some of my best friends are fat” spin on it.
And, Richard, I’m sorry. I know that sometimes one feels the need to proselytize one’s beliefs about weight and weight loss, especially if one feels that there is a problem with other people’s weight or eating habits. But I’m still of the “keep it to yourself” opinion. Just to put your mind at ease, even us fat chicks have some idea about the link between eating and being fat. Thanks, Richard.
And, Wendy, one more obvious thing is that you seem to feel some need to have the last word over my posts (and, look, I’m not even going to try to pop-psych 101 your reasons), so, have at it. The last word is all yours!
Okay!
I’m sorry you feel so badly about yourself.