“How Do I Not Give Up?” And Questions About Ableism
Earlier this week, a plea for advice turned up in the comments. It directed us to this Dear Sugar column, where a man with “physical deformities and joint abnormalities” wrote in asking for advice:
My problem—and my problem with most advice-outlets—is that there’s not much of a resource for people like me. In movies, ugly characters are redeemed by being made beautiful in time to catch the eye of their love interest, or else their ugliness is a joke (Ugly Betty is NOT ugly). In practical life, we’re taught that personality matters more than physicality, but there are plenty of attractive (or at least normal-looking) people who are also decent human beings.
What is there for people like me who will never be remotely attractive and who are just average on the inside?
The Dear Sugar column includes a story about a man who was severely burned, and who ultimately committed suicide, believing he’d never find romantic love–as well as a response to the man who wrote in, which is quite beautifully written.
Inhabit the beauty that lives in your beastly body and strive to see the beauty in all the other beasts. Walk without a stick into the darkest woods. Believe that the fairy tale is true.
Our own questioner, who signed herself FB (or “female beast”) goes on to ask:
I’m a woman who is just plain ugly, no genetic disorders, just ugly. The thing is I try. I clean up, I dress nicely, but I’m not pretty and I have never once been approached in a bar or at a party, or asked on a date by a colleague or friend, no matter how sparkling and charming and witty I might be. And I put myself out there, I talk, I flirt. It’s very easy to say “Oh, it’s just your manner” or “If you met the right guy…” when you fall into the “Normal to Pretty” category, but I’m not in that category. I’m just not attractive, I’m ugly. So how am I supposed to keep looking, keep trying, when for so long all I have faced is constant rejection? Because, while women may look past looks, its just not the same for men. How do I not give up?
One thing to keep in mind, FB, is how lucky* you are to be free from genetic disorders or physical deformities. Those of us who don’t fit the mold of stereotypical beauty–whether because we’re fat or for some other reason–can often forget that. The “Fatosphere” is sometimes criticized for being ableist because it is so easy to ignore the fact that not everyone faces the same challenges.
And hopefully we can have a conversation about that too, because I would like to learn more about disability politics, and make sure this blog is a positive voice as far as that goes. (For instance, is it okay to say we are “lucky” not to be physically deformed? Does that mean we are saying able-bodied people are superior to those who are not able-bodied? And if so, what do we say instead?)
[*It has been pointed out that this is, in fact, an offensive statement. I’m leaving it here so you have context for the conversation in the comments, but I do apologize for using ableist language. I also don’t want to make FB feel that her problems are not valid or less valid, and apologize also if I inadvertently did so.]
But anyway, this is not to diminish the fact that you feel that your physical appearance does affect your love life, and that you’d like advice. To that end, commenter boots asked some follow-up questions:
@ FB, I have so many follow-up questions…also, thanks for the link to that Dear Sugar column, that’s fascinating.
1. How old are you? (Just curious where you are in your life)
2. What does “giving up” mean to you in the context of finding love? What are you doing currently in your search that you would not do if you gave up looking?
3. Was anything in the comments of the Dear Sugar column helpful to you? (there were some pretty good thoughts there–even the stuff I didn’t agree with I thought might work for someone else)
Hopefully FB will come back to respond to those questions; I’ve sent her an email alerting her to the conversation. In the meantime, what advice would you give FB–can we help her? And what advice would you give me?
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Question, Sex & Romance
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“One thing to keep in mind, FB, is how lucky you are to be free from genetic disorders or physical deformities.”
This made my hackles stand up and my stomach clench. It’s ableist. It positions abled bodies above disabled bodies. If you’re “lucky” to be able-bodied, that means having a disabled body is inherently bad. Which is ableism.
I know you included the second paragraph, discussing your ignorance of and interest in learning more about disability politics, but the sentence I quoted above makes this entire post a slipshod, careless, offensive fumble. I literally felt sick to my stomach when I read it.
Finally, if you’re interested in learning more about disability politics, then go out there and learn. Read, study, absorb. Don’t expect your commenters & their “conversation” to do that work for you. Here’s a good place to start: http://disabledfeminists.com/
I’ve never been approached by someone in a bar and asked out. Probably because I’m not really the bar type. The entire concept of meeting someone while inebriated and going on from there to form a meaningful and fulfilling relationship is just flat out confounding to me. I know it happens… I just don’t understand HOW. Like pirate Twit says in the Ray Stevens “Pirate Song”, “You want to know the truth? It’s not me, I don’t want it.”
I have been asked out at gaming groups, at book readings, at w00tstock, and my current partner is someone I met a decade ago on an Internet fan board for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. These are places where I know there are people who share my interests and therefore I know we’ll have excellent conversations. If romance rolls out of that– bonus points!
I’m not quite sure what ‘pretty’ is supposed to be. I come from a family and a culture that is intensely focused on outward appearance, so I understand the drive to always present yourself as ‘cleaned up real good’. However, I’ve rejected wholesale the notion that I have to denigrate myself to ensure I am appropriately humble and ‘in my place’. You know how the conversation goes, “That’s a pretty dress.” “Oh, I hate it, it makes me look horrible.”
My first step out of that cultural mindset was giving myself compliments on my looks and stomping viciously that little voice in the back of my head that says, “But you’re not worth it–”
And while I stomp it in my sensible yet chic Mary Jane shoes, with the little half-moon tan on the top of each of my feet from wearing them all the time, I say, “Hell yes, I am. 24/7, 365 days a year, I am worth it. I’m worth more than that, actually. You’re getting an amazing deal considering how much I’m worth.”
I went five years between my last abusive jerkface sorry excuse for a human being partner and my current partner. Five years doesn’t always sound like a lot, so I did the math and it was 16% of my life (41% of my adult life) that I was between partners. It was a long, hard five years. I wore out a lot of pairs of chic Mary Janes stomping the ever-loving heck out of that stupid voice. It was five years of telling myself I deserved so much more than an abusive jerkface sorry excuse for a human being as a partner, and promising myself I wouldn’t settle for anything less than amazing.
Me and my new partner? We’ve been working out this relationship thing for all of three months. I didn’t settle for anything less than amazing. Got some bonus awesome in the package, too, actually. And heck, if things don’t work out with the current partner, I’m not giving up and not settling for anything less than I deserve.
And I? Like you, FB, deserve the absolute best. Always. Never settle for anything less, darling.
“One thing to keep in mind, FB, is how lucky you are to be free from genetic disorders or physical deformities.”
This makes me squinch up my face a bit. I understand the sentiment behind it, but it still rubs me the wrong way, because in my mind, a comment like that is actually saying something like, “Look, be thankful you’re ‘just ugly.’ It could be worse – you could be paralyzed (or blind, or minus a limb or two, or something).”
While it’s true that being without an arm is likely more difficult to deal with on a daily basis, it still serves to invalidate FB’s feelings while quietly suggesting that people that are disabled are somehow not good enough by default. And I don’t like either of those ideas.
So, I’m not an expert on combatting ableism, but in a situation like this, I think that if we’re going to use the “it could be worse” line for FB, we should say something like, “Look, it could be worse – after all, you could be an asshole.” That, in my mind, is a true detriment to finding a lasting, healthy romantic relationship – not what your physical appearance may or may not look like.
Sarra, yeah, I considered just deleting that whole paragraph rather than admitting my ignorance, but I thought admitting my ignorance and actually opening up a dialogue would be better than willfully ignoring the issue.
So maybe you could dial down the belligerence and appreciate that I would like to learn of the existence of blogs like Disabled Feminists, maybe without being personally attacked. Or else the default will be, well, I’m just going to stop trying to reach outside my comfort zone at all.
Plus, the commenters here are really smart people, and I’ve learned a lot from them over the years. I certainly don’t expect them to “do the work” for me, though. Ugh.
@Z, thank you for your comment. I agree about that statement being potentially invalidating to FB’s problems as well, and that’s a problem too.
@Mary Sue you are awesome. And I think that’s really good advice.
I get so, so, SO very tired of comments like this: “Don’t expect your commenters & their “conversation” to do that work for you.”
Mo pie, there is nothing wrong with not knowing the esoteric “rules” of any particular activism prior to commenting. Unless you are willfully engaging in ableism, as opposed to accidentally saying the wrong thing, and are subsequently willing to acknowledge your mistakes, then what the hell is the problem?
I saw this exact same scenario play out elsewhere when a blog that was posting a woman of the week type thing posted about Helen Keller the same week as Juneteenth, and someone proceeded to go apeshit about “erasing” black identity and hating black people, etc.
Before we get furiously angry at someone for not embracing our activism as wholly as we have, can we please take a minute to just say, “Hey, you said something wrong, here’s what it is, here’s why, if you have any questions let me know.”
Instead, we’ve created this environment where each activism is like it’s only little minefield where one wrong step and BOOM! you’re blown away by the extremists who think only members of their activism should be allowed to discuss “their” issues.
I’m sorry, but unless someone is being intentionally disrespectful, and you weren’t, then your semantic misstep should be corrected at most, followed by an invitation to learn more.
This is why activism remains a closed pursuit. Outsiders don’t have time to learn each and every aspect of your activism and if they have an opinion (right, wrong or otherwise) they risk pissing off the activists for not speaking properly.
*sigh*
I’m sorry, I completely unloaded, but this happens in Fat Acceptance and it pisses me off. What is our job as activists if not to be educators? Sometimes it seems as though people think their role as activists is to destroy any “impure” opinions and I’m tired of it.
*putting on my flame-retardant helmet*
Okay, back to work.
Peace,
Shannon
This is actually reminding me too of a friend of mine’s recent blog entry about living with HIV and cancer. The entry is here. He says:
@mo pie
Calling you out on your ableism =/= belligerence, and calling your post careless and slipshod and offensive =/= a personal attack. Your use of the tone argument is derailing.
See, I really don’t get your reply to Sarra at all. You’ve admitted you don’t know much about disability politics or whether your comments are ableist, and stated that you want to learn. Someone tells you that yes your comments are ableist, indicates they found them personally offensive, and schools you in basic accepted ettiquette regarding doing your own research rather than asking others – who may have disabilities and limited time/spoons – to do it for you. I would think that was exactly the kind of comment that your post invited. Was she not nice enough to you, in explaining that you’d offended her? That’s not really a good reason to attack back rather than listening. Saying that you want to learn but only if people cater the lessons to keep within your own comfort zone is, well, a bit snotty in my opinion.
To FB, I would wish to say, ugly is subjective. And although it might feel like her looks are a huge barrier: there are plenty if ‘ugly’ folk in loving relationships. Perhaps if she spent some time noticing how the people around her – the ones not conventionally attractive – enjoy complex relationships like everyone else. Perhaps she needs some new friends who will include her in activities less superficial than flirting in bars. I think FA should have much to offer FB – we know that ‘I’ll be alone til I lose weight’ is a lie. So is the same sentence with ‘get pretty’ inserted. WTF is pretty but a misogynistic social construct anyway?
@angelica, I’ll just agree to disagree with you on the tone argument. I’ve been called out before on lots of things and have been appreciative of it. I believe in checking my privilege. And I believe the tone there was overly dismissive. I also don’t believe it has in any way closed the conversation.
@Shannon I know exactly what you mean. The anger seems, to me, destructive, especially when someone is expressing a willingness to be corrected and a desire to be better informed. I mean, how else are we supposed to learn anything? Otherwise every blog is just a clique of people who believe the same things and repeat them to each other ad infinitum, and what’s the point of that?
I should have worded my post differently, btw, because ‘attack back’ isn’t quite what I meant. More ‘shift to defensive mode’.
Hi, Mo. Yeah, it’s a big, complicated kettle of fishes, no? I am curious to see what everyone else has to say.
But if I could offer one small extra bit of advice – while I am not an expert on combatting ableism, I AM something of an expert on Sayin’ It Wrong…
I know that Sarra’s comment got your own hackles up, likely because you were not intending to be offensive and you are honestly curious – but intent is not magic, and we have to be aware that whatever we say at any given point in time on subjects like these might hurt someone.
Being willing to open up a dialogue is great, but that also means you have to be willing to admit when you’re wrong and apologize when you’ve offended someone, whether you yourself think they should be offended or not.
Further, it’s not the job of the offended party to educate you on why they’re offended. They CAN do that, if they choose to do so, but they don’t HAVE to. And if they don’t, it’s not a good excuse to quit trying to come out of your comfort zone. Like, “Well, so-and-so said what I said was racist, and rather than putting together a 65 slide powerpoint presentation on the fly about WHY what I said was racist, zie just told me zie was offended and I should educate MYSELF. OMG. Now I will be racist forever because that offended person couldn’t be bothered to educate me. It’s hir fault I’m going to now be racist forever!”
So, I think a better response when we offend someone during a discussion like this is not to get offended right back because we perceive them as being mean or irrational or oversensitive, but to just say something like, “What I said was offensive and I am sorry.” Not “I’m sorry if what I said offended you, but I didn’t mean it like that” – that’s a fauxpology, but a simple, “I was wrong, I am sorry.” And you may get recognition for apologizing, and you may not – but either way, it’s the right thing to do.
Just 15 more cents for you. I dunno if that helps or not, but I felt like I should say it.
If you’re “lucky” to be able-bodied, that means having a disabled body is inherently bad. Which is ableism.
Actually, no. No it isn’t. The opposite of lucky isnt “bad” it’s “unlucky.” It is not a judgement statement. It is not a reflection on morality. If I say “I’m lucky I didn’t break my leg when I fell,” does it mean that for someone who *did* break their leg, their bodies are suddenly “inherently bad?” Of course not.
Appreciating the fact that I don’t have a particular problem doesn’t mean I have something against those that do. With our recent move, I have come to know a lot of people who have major physical disabilities. I’ve come to a great appreciation over the fact that I can communicate easily. I can control my arms and legs. I *have* arms and legs. And you know what? The fact that I do really is lucky. I realize that in the blink of an eye, I could be in their place. Or I too could have been born oxygen deprived and permanently damanged. Or I could come down with MS. Or, or, or…
The thing about “luck” or the lack of it is that it’s an equal opportunity player. Things can happen to anyone, and I greatly admire the strength of will my new neighbours have to have, just to function in daily life. My own life is enriched by getting to know them. Should I ever be so “unlucky” as to find myself in a similar situation, I can only hope to deal with it with as much grace and dignity as they have shown. I would certainly be able to use them as my inspiration.
@Spilt Milk Thanks for your explanation, it makes sense to me. I think when people are confronted with their privilege, it often makes them take things personally and get defensive, and I am trying not to fall into that trap. I didn’t understand that the “do your own research” thing was “accepted etiquette” in terms of disability politics, and I took it as an insult against the very intelligent people who comment here.
But as to that, is it really that much of a faux pas to ask for a starting point? I guess as a teacher, if my students are like “I would like to learn about blah” it makes me thrilled beyond belief to give them some ideas–try this book or read this website or whatever. Not doing the work for them, but giving them an idea of where to look.
I gave you a starting point. Apprently it still wasn’t good enough. Which is why I withdrew completely both here and on Twitter. It seems, after reading your responses (for the first time) almost two weeks later, that I made the right choice. Pity.
I appreciate everyone here who DIDN’T assume I was being belligerent and angry. I wasn’t, but sometimes it’s way too much work to fight my way through a sea of everyone else’s assumptions and jumped-to-conclusions. With any luck, ALL commenters can keep that in mind for the future – until someone clarifies intent, everyone is simply guessing. Which helps nothing.
@Z Thanks for your 15 cents; I appreciate them. I’ve done a fair amount of reading about race privilege and male privilege, and what you’re saying is familiar: it’s not the oppressed person’s job to teach the privileged, etc. etc. and it should be applied here.
For what it’s worth, I am sorry for using ableist language.
I too found the ‘lucky’ sentence quite ouchy. Because if we disabled folks are automatically unlucky, that paves the way for all the pity politics which doesn’t advance anybody’s cause. Plus it does create, or at least imply, some kind of hierarchy where disabled people are lower down than non-disableds.
I’m saying this because you said you wanted to open a dialogue, not to ‘have a go’ or attack. The post did feel disablist in some ways, and it felt a little hurtful. But I’m glad you were aware that it might be, rather than assuming it would all be fine.
@Z,
Why would you apologize for offending someone if you don’t really understand why it was offensive? Doesn’t that make it a hollow apology?
Also, how do you know that the person who is offended is coming from a place of genuine understanding of the issues. The Twitter rep for Lane Bryant, for example, said she was “defending” fat women when they attacked Definatalie for her shirt design. She found it offensive and she is fat, so therefore she’s a part of the oppressed group, but her opinions were unfounded.
I don’t understand why the offended person can’t take a moment to say, “Hey, I was offended, here’s a link explaining why.”
No, intent isn’t magical, but does that mean that every time you’re offended you should take the offender to task? It does not take any more words to respond civilly than it does to respond angrily.
Peace,
Shannon
@incurable hippie I totally appreciate what you’re saying. I’d be interested to know what you think about Kunoichi’s comments above on the use of the word “lucky”? Still thinking about the best way to acknowledge difference.
I personally don’t think it’s at all bad to ask for a starting point – you were given an excellent one by Sarra. I guess I just didn’t perceive the disproportionate anger and belligerence in the way Sarra responded that you and Atchka have. But this has turned into a useful discussion I think. I agree that facing one’s own privilege can be confronting and it’s easy to misstep in those circumstances, most of us have done so I’ll wager.
@Spilt Milk I agree, I’m reading the archives now. And thanks to Sarra for the link, hopefully we can get beyond the missteps. It is a tricky subject, but worth trying to negotiate, I think.
Thanks for replying, mo pie. I read Kunoichi’s comment too, and felt a little patronised tbh. I don’t want to be someone’s inspiration, I want rights and access.
@Kunoichi, thank you for what you said. My husband is an amputee, and he tells me on an almost daily basis how lucky I am to have both of my legs, and he’s right. I’m very fortunate that I don’t have to deal personally with the challenges that he struggles with on a daily basis. How that could be interpreted as either of us implying that I’m a better or more worthwhile human being because I *haven’t* survived and lost a limb to cancer (…thank God) is beyond me.
As for FB: I think I’m a reasonably attractive woman, but it took me thirty years to come around to that way of thinking. From puberty on I believed I was hideous. It wasn’t because I was told so — in face, quite the contrary; but whenever I looked in the mirror I saw the opposite of my idea of pretty. Which is all to say that self-perception can be horribly skewed, and you should not base your own beauty or self-worth on the amount of male attention you receive. And there are guys out there who look beyond physical appearance to build meaningful connections. A lot of those guys are dealing with their own self-perception as less-than-attractive and hoping to find someone who can look deeper than physical appearance, as well. And I agree with the above poster who pointed out that bars probably aren’t the best place to find the type of guys who are looking for those meaningful connections.
@Spilt Milk,
For me it was this line: “Don’t expect your commenters & their “conversation” to do that work for you.”
I’ve read it a lot (been told it a lot) and I think it automatically conjures up a lot of negativity in me because the times I’ve been told that I was honestly just trying to understand things and I that dialogue is a good way to start. I sort of feel like the opposite of Sarra… if you don’t like newbie conversations of your activism, then don’t read. Don’t tell me how I can and cannot start to learn about a subject.
I don’t see anger and belligerence, merely a response that is a pattern in activism that bothers me
Peace,
Shannon
I should clarify, re: Kunoichi’s comment, that it’s not for non-disabled people to tell disabled people when they should be offended. Like I, as a white person, can’t tell a black person that something wasn’t racist.
Kunoichi is exactly right. Unlucky doesn’t equal bad. Well, of course it doesn’t. And to suggest that you were saying otherwise is a little silly.
It’s also worth pointing out that the disability community is deeply divided over what even constitutes “ableism”. Terms and personal philosophies that might send one person clutching at their pearls may very well provide the comfort and perspective that another affected person needs in order to cope with their situation or that of a loved one. In some ways, terms like “ableism” lose their effectiveness altogether. If enough people disagree with its meaning (and trust me, within the disability community, they do), the word eventually comes to mean something along the lines of “whatever pisses me off”.
Those of us who work and write as disability advocates have a choice. We can tiptoe carefully through the minefield of philosophies like Ableism and People First Language and try to shroud our work in a kind of verbal bubblewrap, hoping that our points can still be heard through the muffle.
Or we can write according to our own beliefs and our own perspectives and hope that even those who don’t agree with our expression can appreciate our perspective.
As someone who lives with disability every day and fights for the rights of not just my own kid but others as well, I didn’t find your comment to be offensive. I knew exactly what you were saying, and I didn’t find it objectionable at all.
I’m going to go so far as to suggest that if someone reacts so strongly to word choice that they feel somehow injured by it, it’s probably not really about the language. I’m not sure where we as a society got the idea that we had a right to not be offended by the world around us. But it does sound exhausting.
@Atchaka!
@Z,
Why would you apologize for offending someone if you don’t really understand why it was offensive? Doesn’t that make it a hollow apology?
I think it’s okay to apologize when you understand you’ve offended someone without understanding the intricacies of why. Is that ideal? No. But you can do it. For example, when Sarra was offended by Mo’s statement, Mo could’ve said, “I’m sorry I offended you. I wasn’t aware that was ableist language, I will read the link you gave me.” That’s easy. A real hollow apology, to me, is, what I said before, “I’m sorry if what I said offended you.”
Also, how do you know that the person who is offended is coming from a place of genuine understanding of the issues. The Twitter rep for Lane Bryant, for example, said she was “defending” fat women when they attacked Definatalie for her shirt design. She found it offensive and she is fat, so therefore she’s a part of the oppressed group, but her opinions were unfounded.
Hmm. I don’t like the use of the word “genuine” here. If we use that, then we get into the sticky territory of having to determine what is and isn’t “genuine” understanding. I don’t think it’s my place to go around making sure everyone I offend really understands why they’re offended before I will acknowledge that I was a jerk. Nor do I think it’s my place to tell other people when they’re allowed to be offended. I’m white, non-disabled, and an “in-betweenie” – I can’t tell a black person something wasn’t racist, a disabled person something wasn’t ableist, or a deathfat that something wasn’t fatism. Because you know what? I don’t ALWAYS know. I can sometimes see it – like with the ableist language here today – but I don’t ALWAYS see it, because I don’t know what it’s like to be faced with it all day, every day.
I’m not sure the LB rep/Definatalie situation fits here, but I can’t, in good conscience, tell that LB rep she’s not allowed to be offended, even if she didn’t quite get where Definatalie was coming from in the first place. When all is said and done, the word “fat” DOES still hurt some feelings out there.
I don’t understand why the offended person can’t take a moment to say, “Hey, I was offended, here’s a link explaining why.”
Offended people can certainly do that. No one is saying they shouldn’t. I try to do that when I am offended. But it’s not a requirement.
No, intent isn’t magical, but does that mean that every time you’re offended you should take the offender to task? It does not take any more words to respond civilly than it does to respond angrily.
Peace,
Shannon
If someone says something that really bothers you, then yes – I think you should say something. Every time. Silence is what allows the -isms to keep going. And I really don’t think anyone is taking Mo “to task” here in a non-civil way (yet – someone could be foaming at the mouth and taking potshots at her mama as I type this, of course).
Hope that clears up what I said a bit more.
Thanks,
Z.
One way to reframe the “I’m lucky that…” trope is to talk about privilege–to acknowledge it.
The thing is, it’s not the disability itself that’s the problem. You’re not lucky that you don’t have X. You’re privileged. The problem is structural. The problem is in individual prejudice.
It’d seem weird if we said, “I’m lucky that much of the world unjustly rewards me while making life unjustly difficult for others.”
Because really, are we going to feel good about that?
Think about fat. Are fat people the problem? A fat activist would say, “Of course not. The problem is thin privilege–it’s fatphobia–it’s discrimination, etc. Fat bodies are neutral.”
On a more personal note, my thin husband is not “lucky” he’s thin. If anything, he’s clearly unlucky because he dislikes the way that the deck is stacked in his favor and hurts me.
Instead of saying, “I’m lucky that…” we can say, “I have privilege because…” and the second step to that is, “And I want to change that.”
@Miriam Heddy – I see what you’re saying, but it’s not “privilege” that makes it easier for me to do something as basic as going to the kitchen to get a snack than it is for my disabled husband. No matter how much we arrange our home to accommodate his needs and balance the scales, it will always take twice as much effort for him to get around than it does for me. It’s not just that he has a difference, like skin color or size or gender, that causes him problems in society — he has a physical condition that makes it harder for him to interact with the physical world around him, and the circumstances that led to that condition were very unlucky, indeed, and could happen to anybody — which is where the concept of “luck” applies.
I wasn’t sure if I was going to comment again after seeing the first one on this post…because I think I’m still feeling rather vulnerable, so feeling rather like self-preservation is necessary, but I’ll try to answer the questions posed best I can.
1.) Age? 25.
2.) Giving up? I think as far as giving up, going about that, it’s more of a mental thing, just getting used to the idea that I’ll never have love, never be in love, never be loved. So, when my friends want to go out, I’ll let myself stay home, if I do go out, I’m not getting dressed up or making any kind of effort more than I have already made for the day, when my friends want to introduce me to some guy, I’ll just say no… those kinds of actions.
3.) Comments? I like what poster CarrieP said, especially this “Now I can’t speak to the experiences of the gentleman who wrote the letter, but there is something about being completely ignored as a romantic prospect that just sucks the hope right out of you. Have it happen your whole life and you start to wonder if the universe is trying to tell you something, that you’re just destined to never ever be loved or looked at with admiration or chosen above all others. You try to find some way to reprogram your brain to not long for romantic companionship and instead find meaning in being really good at your job or traveling and having new experiences, but no matter what you try, that longing never goes away.” It’s not so much helpful advice, just something I identify with. And I liked the comment by Lara that says “Now I can’t speak to the experiences of the gentleman who wrote the letter, but there is something about being completely ignored as a romantic prospect that just sucks the hope right out of you. Have it happen your whole life and you start to wonder if the universe is trying to tell you something, that you’re just destined to never ever be loved or looked at with admiration or chosen above all others. You try to find some way to reprogram your brain to not long for romantic companionship and instead find meaning in being really good at your job or traveling and having new experiences, but no matter what you try, that longing never goes away.” Some others along those lines were helpful/interesting/relatable as well.
FB, I’ve been there. I went all through my teens and twenties without having a single boyfriend, without any of the guys I was interested in ever showing a single shred of interest in me beyond friendship. And that can indeed do a lot of damage to your self-esteem and wreck your self-image if you allow it to.
By the time I made it past 30, I figured out that my happiness didn’t depend on male attention, and that I was actually pretty happy and satisfied with my single life, and I knew it wouldn’t be the end of the world if nobody ever fell in love with me. Once I stopped looking for love and started just enjoying my life, my self-esteem improved, I grew happier with the image in the mirror… and that’s when I met the wonderful man who became, at age 32, my first boyfriend (and eventually my husband).
I know it sounds cliche, but attitude really does count for a lot. If you perceive yourself as attractive and project that attitude, others will pick up on that perception and share it. It’s not easy to get there, but it can be done. My advice to you is not to “give up” on love, per se, but to put the search for it on the back burner for as long as it takes for you to figure out how to love yourself as much as you deserve to be loved. Because if you don’t, nobody else will, either.
Ahhh FB, I know how you feel, really I do.
Here’s my advice, and I can tell you from experience that this was the biggest lightbulb to go on in my life, and that it really changed how I feel and my happiness levels.
Stop looking. It’s not the same as giving up. Just, stop looking for what you don’t have. Live. Do stuff that you want to do. Focus your life on making yourself happy. Have a relationship with yourself. I know that sounds wanky, but if you treat yourself as though you’re the person you are in a relationship with, then you will find that you don’t look outward for fulfillment. Find what you are looking for within yourself. It’s there, I promise you it is, you just have to realise that it’s there.
Once that “clicks” into place, once you find that flow of making yourself happy in everything you do, then guess what? Awesome people come into your life! Friends AND potential relationships. And they dig you for exactly who you are. It’s bizarre how it works that way, but it really does.
And let go of the “ugly” label. You’re more than just a label, and beauty is so subjective anyway. Love is available to everyone, and beauty is within everyone, if they care to live it.
^^ What Miriam Heddy said.
At one point in my life I could really relate to FB’s post. I am trying to think of a way to reply that would not sound Pollyannaish, because there’s no magic solution that I know of. I do agree with J. that attitude makes a difference. It so happens that I met my husband at a point where I had kind of come to terms with the fact that I might never date or get married. I think that the confidence (or maybe just the giving up) did help me, but I realize as far as advice goes “have a good attitude” comes off as disingenuous, at least to me it always did.
I have been with my husband for 9 years now. I can think of a laundry list of reasons that, objectively, we should have never ended up together. But what it boiled down to was we clicked, and a lot of the stuff that seemed like it would matter, both physical and beyond, didn’t matter in the end. After many years of invisibility and rejection (and in my case, virginity) it became very easy to believe that the entire world is driven by looks, or if we’re really lucky there are a few kind souls out there who will “look beyond.” Well, fuck looking beyond. My wish for FB and anyone else out there who is looking for a relationship is that she finds someone who looks at her and sees her as a whole person who deserves to be loved. Because she does. We all do.
I will add–I always had this fantasy that I would lose a bunch of weight and THEN Prince Charming would come along. There are a lot of probs with this fantasy, but anyway, in my dreams he would be the type of dude who would initially be attracted to my (hypothetical) banging post-weight loss body, but would actually like me for who I am on the inside. Since I never got that banging body, my husband fell in love with the regular old girl with the extra 70 lbs, bad teeth, etc etc. Now I’m 9 years older and have had 2 kids. I am experiencing some of the effects of gravity, aging, and just what pregnancy can do to a woman’s body. That stomach I had before now hangs down my body in a way that I am only describe as the opposite of ideal. I have to enlist my husband’s help in keeping that area dry and free of infection. However, because he fell in love with me “imperfect” I have no doubt that he loves me; that he appreciates my body. He still approaches me with the love and wonder he always has. A lot of my friends who have had babies are really struggling with their body’s changes and feel a burden to keep their body in the perfect condition that initially attracted their husbands. It’s very normal for postpartum changes to be hard for women to deal with. I’m glad I can deal with my postpartum body on my own terms and not coupled with the fear that my partner will look elsewhere or reject me simply because I had his damn baby.
FB, I woke up thinking about your letter, and I just want to say that being single is not some kind of indication that there’s anything “wrong” with you. I have more than one friend who has been single for a long time and would prefer not to be, and they are intelligent, funny, fun to be around, sexy, kind, well-read, and objectively attractive. It just hasn’t happened yet.
All you can do is to try and embrace your independence, get involved in things you’re passionate about, cultivate a supportive social circle, and don’t let singleness begin to feel like it’s somehow your “fault.” Because I bet you’re awesome.
As someone who is functionally, though not “officially” disabled, I would like to say that I kinda of agree with both sides here:
J., I know what you mean – I definitely consider myself unlucky because being in pain all the time freaking sucks and that has nothing whatsoever to do with structural problems. Nobody’s making life hard for me in that regard, it just is.
And yet I know exactly where Miriam is coming from, too. It’s disrespectful to assume that each and every one of us would agree with the “unlucky” label. That’s where Mo, kunoichi and J. went wrong, I think. Don’t call us unlucky unless we’ve personally told you that we think of ourselves that way. Not all disabilities are inherently painful and some are really just hard to live with due to discrimination and nothing else. Furthermore, some people don’t find their disabilities hard to live with at all – I know that some willingly choose to remain deaf, for example.
In conclusion, please don’t assume that I’m unlucky – but don’t tell me I’m not, either. Almost everyone who commented here seems to have overlooked at least one group of people.
(I also tentatively agree with Atchka. As long as you don’t demand help and refuse to educate yourself, there’s nothing wrong with quickly checking if someone will answer your questions. Because, I mean, THEY MIGHT. How is trying offensive??)
I’m sorry, I thought that html would work here – some parts of my comment should be in italics for emphasis. Especially “as long as you don’t /demand/ help and /refuse/ to educate yourself.”
I know that the responses to FB’s situation are well intentioned, but I’m seeing an issue here that I’ve seen again and again when we’ve talked about relationships on fatosphere sites. There’s a real conversational barrier between those who’ve been in romantic relationships and those of us who haven’t.
Watch for reiterations of “It’s all in your attittude!” or “You’ll find love when you’re not looking!” or “Focus on yourself and you’ll find love!” I’m sure that this is the experience many of you have had. But many of us HAVEN’T, and I’ve found it very alienating to see our very deep concerns and personal experiences diminished like this.
I’m 42. I have had many many first dates, primarily from online dating, but much fewer second dates, and have never been in a real dating relationship. I’ve never been in love or had another person love me. My friends say I’m cute, I know I have a great personality, but I also know, from personal experience, that sizeism is probably the primary reason that I am still alone at this age.
I think it’s one thing for someone to imagine themselves unlovable because they’ve never tried to reach out to other people. I think we’re right to encourage them to break out of their shell and try. But some of us have tried. Some of us have tried long and hard, and kept up the positive attitude and the don’t-try-so-hard-and-love-will-find-you and all of it, and still haven’t found love, or anything close.
So when I see a discussion where people talk about their dating life and how it turned out ok in the end, I think, HAH! You HAVE a dating life!
I don’t know where to draw the line, in my own life or in a discussion like this one, between trying to stay optimistic, and allowing a person to mourn the experience they’ve been denied. Frankly, as a person who feels much closer to the point of mourning than that of optimism, it feels insulting to be told to buck up, and be offered the same tired positive thinking, try try again advice, no matter how well intentioned.
A follow up to my own comment…
But I will say this: It helps me, when I look at some of the truly distressing relationships some of my friends are in, to realize that even if I’m alone the rest of my life, I am much happier in my own good company than in an unhappy relationship.
To FB: It’s really important that you don’t let everything depend on how someone else perceives you. Because when your feelings of worthiness hinge on having another person be attracted to you, you start to disregard your own feelings of attraction.
Or at least that happened to me in my 20s, as I went through a series of non-starter encounters with guys I did not especially like but who had expressed some kind of interest in me. Whenever they fizzled out I’d end up feeling guilty for squandering this tiny little bit of attention that had come my way.
It took a while to get past all that, but one of the things that helped me, oddly enough, was developing an intense crush on some guy I knew at the time. It was never requited but something about it really woke me up and let me think about myself in terms of what I wanted rather than who wanted me.
I agree with the advice about cultivating your independence–to embrace singlehood and stop thinking you NEED a relationship to be a complete person. But I think it’s also okay to still want one, because those feelings of attraction can teach you a lot about who you are.
O.C.–I don’t know how to quote. But in my response I specifically tried not to be too Mary Sunshine about the whole thing. I understand how patronizing that can be. But at the same time, those of us who have experienced rejection/indifference/whatever in the relationship department and gone on to have relationships, our experiences are just as valid as those who hadn’t. I don’t think anybody guaranteed that EVERYBODY will find Mr./Ms. Right in the end. That’s ridiculous. But the truth is, there are people out there who don’t care about looks. Some of us know this through life experience. And even though “a good attitude” is not exactly the kind of thing you can order off the internet, I happened to fall into my relationship when I was in a very self-positive place in my life.
A timely article from CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/08/13/still.single.lucky/index.html?hpt=Mid
Love….it’s so over-rated!
We live in a cultural that tells us we’re not complete or our lives are not complete, unless we’ve found our other half – our love. What a crock of sh*t!
So to take PollyAnna in the other direction, perhaps drown her, don’t buy the lies that society is desperately trying to sell you. Yes they are trying to make money off of love, sex, etc… They’re marketing it all around you, for a reason. Drown the d*mn B!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is priviledge and luck.
Who cares if he/she won’t talk to you or acknowledge your existance. Come on who has the real problem here, you or them? Let’s be real, they do. So don’t take it personal and move on. No, don’t go home and mentally obsess over it. Really move on! Why waste your time on them? You shouldn’t! Your time is valuable and they’re not worth it.
Love yourself and be content that it’s enough.
I’m not picking up yesterday’s garbage and you shouldn’t be either.
“So, when my friends want to go out, I’ll let myself stay home, if I do go out, I’m not getting dressed up or making any kind of effort more than I have already made for the day, when my friends want to introduce me to some guy, I’ll just say no…those kinds of actions.”
That sounds fine, honestly! If you’re *forcing* yourself to go out and dress up and do the whole flirting bit because you feel you must, that would wear anyone out. Now, being 25, maybe your friends only want to go out clubbing/hooking up every weekend? In that case, you might try opening up your social circle to meet more friends–Meetup.com is great for finding people to hang out with who have similar interests. That way you can stop doing the whole hookup scene but not have to stay at home and be a hermit either. I think it’s fine to give up looking for love–you can re-evaluate at any point. Or not! It’s up to you. As a happily married person, I would still agree with Twix above that romantic love is overrated, especially in our society.
That said, if you do still want to find love, I’m in my mid-30s and have noticed that everyone I know who wanted to be in a romantic relationship, even the people I feared in my heart of hearts were too “ugly” or too old or too damaged to find someone who would appreciate them, has fallen in love at least once. I don’t mean to say they all lived happily ever after, but they found love once and I think they could again. Sometimes it just takes a while. But in any case, be nice to yourself and keep pursuing your non-romantic passions.
Late to the party, but I wanted to say thanks, O.C., for bringing up the point that not every story has the “and then I met The One” segment. Relationship/ romantic stuff is somewhat uniquely shitty in that getting started requires luck in finding a compatible person – I can’t think of another broad pursuit where there’s the same ‘multiply by zero’ effect that’s so out of your control.
I heartily second Meetup as a way to be social without things being focused on clubbing/ going to bars. It’s been great in my life, and hopefully there are parts that might fit in the same ‘shift the focus of life to other areas’ vein you mentioned above.
And touching briefly on the ablism language topic, I really agree with Tiana’s point WRT ‘lucky’ – ‘I’m so lucky I’m not like you’ is just too loaded to be a good starting point. It’s true that it’s only chance that makes some of us disabled and some of us able-bodied, but that’s why I like the term TAB (temporarily able-bodied).
I am late coming to the whole FA issue. I was an average sized child who became a chunky pre-teen who became and stayed a slender young woman, wife and mother for 30+ years. Then I gained 60 lbs. It has taken me many years to accept that I am fine the way I am. For my personal reasons I would not like to continue to gain, but I find that I am pretty satisfied with the way I look overall. I do find I don’t have as much stamina as I used to, but that’s my own fault for being pretty lazy and leading a sedentary lifestyle
But I do want to address FB’s concerns about not finding anyone and feeling ugly and in particular, responding to others who found someone when they werent’ looking.
This is a personal anecdote but it is true and real and it is about a person I greatly admire. My aunt and godmother, who died at the age of 81 2 yrs. ago was overweight much of her adult life. As a young woman in the 40’s and 50’s she was so absolutely gorgeous she was often confused for a movie star. I say this because despite her great beauty and many, many suitors, she never married. She had many good friends, had a wonderful career, traveled the world and had many hobbies. She started to become very overweight in her late 20’s and early 30’s. I used to wonder why she never married or had a partner and she told me “I never found anyone I wanted to settle down with”. So I guess in a round about way what I am saying is be happy with yourself, despite what you consider to be an ugly appearance. If you can, travel, see the world, make friends and do what makes you happy. If love comes along in the form of a life partner, wonderful for you. If not, you can still have a wonderful life with many friends, an interesting career. I am not trying to belittle your concerns. I have many women friends and acquaintances that others would consider physically unattractive who have very fulfilling lives. Some have partners, others do not. My dear aunt had a beautiful face, was extremely overweight and never found a life partner. But it never stopped her from enjoying her life to the fullest. She was loved by her family and many many friends. I admired her very much, in part because it is difficult for me to make and sustain long term friendships and she did it with such ease.
Teri, thank you so much for sharing this–your aunt sounds like a remarkable person.
Mmmmm. FB- you’re still 25- there’s still so much of life to see, experiences to have. Don’t give up on anything- leave alone love!
It kind of sucks, but some percentage of people are not destined for sexual relationships. Same thing I tell angry men’s rights advocates who feel they have a god-given right to a woman of their specifications, who seems not to be forthcoming.
They blame feminism, of course, but it has ever been thus that a minority of people, both male and female, just never partner off in life.
Sometimes there is something that the “sufferer” can do to improve his/her odds, sometimes there really isn’t, and sometimes it’s just a matter of bad luck or unfortunate timing.
(We all have that relative or friend or acquaintance who has been single for decades for no obvious reason. My grandparents always thought it would by my extroverted and cute maiden auntie who’d produce grandchildren, while my bookish and socially awkward mom would surely die childless in the corner of the family library; fate’s weird sometimes.)
I agree that bars aren’t the best place to get asked out.
Also, there are “beautiful” people who are single and alone. Actually, a lot of hot people have a hard time with relationships b/c they can so easily get dates/sex.
On the flip side, a lot of “ugly” people are in very good relationships. Without all the vanity, you can concentrate on what’s important.
But the biggest killer of your chance to have a relationship is insecurity. You obviously have a lot of good qualities, so be confident in them and know that someone else will too.