MamaV Responds
I wanted to make sure we all had a chance to read MamaV/Heather’s response to the concerns about We Are The Real Deal. It’s in the comments here:
I’ve read, and listened, and reread and listened some more…and here’s my take;
1) Privilege: Of course thin privilege exists and is wrong and unfair. Fat discrimination exists and is simply inexcusable. BUT–so is reverse discrimination and “ranking†the right to express body image issues.
I will have a lot more fuel to add to the fire, along with my contributors. Watch for QA to be posted Thurs., get your daggers sharpened!
2) No moderation: I have no interest in a nicey-nice-don’t-worry-be-happy blog. SP is meant to be a safe place, that allows individuals to express themselves in a non-threatening environment. WATRD is meant to be an open place, that allows us to see the brutal reality, no matter how offending, hurtful, and irrelevant. There is space for both and you are free to choose which you are in the mood to read.
For the record, comments were not closed to shut off the conversation (they are back open BTW), I meant to direct the comments to the apology post because it made logical sense to me. I am really hard core on complete and total freedom of speech, regardless of how brutal it may get (and as you can see I am taking the brunt of it) so I am sorry this was perceived as an attempt to cut off your voice…feel free to continue posting your comments, the conversation is still in full roar.
3) Intellectual snobbery: Ripping on grammatical errors and type’os is so tired. My style ain’t changin’ (yes, I said ain’t). Plus doesn’t this send the message that one must articulate themselves at a set standard and/or level of education or risk being criticized?
4) Kate is a gem. She is a bright, courageous woman. Did I miss the chapter on thin privilege? Did you skip the part about not judging other women? Glazed right past the advice to “get over yourself and stop thinking everyone is focused on you and your flaws?â€
5) Barbie comments -sarcasm that bombed…since this was taken literally by most, I sincerely apologized for the Barbie related statements (only). I mistakenly thought my sarcasm would be quite obvious since I am a 40 year mom, with lumps, bumps, zits, and wrinkles just like 99% of the female population—except I love who I am and I am not afraid to say I am beautiful. Why are you?
Bottomline, we can all continue to out-snark each other….or we can attempt to listen and learn. I have already learned a great deal from reading all of the comments, knowing Kate, reading her book, and now reading the other blogs that have been recommended to me (such as this one).
Are you willing to explore the other side? I hope so, because it is quite obvious the ladies here and at SP are leading the FA effort, and WATRD is on your side whether you believe it or not—and whether you want us to or not.
I am glad my Barbie post let us all cut to the chase….aren’t you?
Heather
aka mamaV
3) All I can say about the issue of “typeo’s” is that I’m an editor and an English teacher, and I read more than my fair share of poor grammar in my freshman comp papers, where it is in fact my job to help my students learn how to communicate better, which includes grammatical correctness. The point is that bad grammar gets in the way of what you’re trying to communicate.
I respect my students for having intellectual abilities that differ from mine, and don’t consider myself a snob in that regard, and certainly can forgive a mistake or two, and certainly am not perfect myself, and certainly don’t care if you use “ain’t” or other slang in your blog; however, I’m not going to bother to read a blog where the editor is proud of not understanding apostrophes. It is certainly a skill that, IF YOU WANT TO BE A WRITER, isn’t that difficult to learn. And I think you owe it to your readers to learn it. So maybe I’m a snob after all?
Anyway, I just had to address that part; I know you guys will want to address the rest.
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“Heather can’t manage to see past her blinders
People, she doesn’t even know she’s wearing blinders!
Am I the only who feels like mamaV is one of the popular girls who clearly just doesn’t give a shit no matter what she actually says?
And I’m curious – they say they want no moderation, they don’t want a ‘safe space’, but has it occurred to any of them that that’s precisely what the women they want to ‘help’ need? What part of living the meat world isn’t “real”?
Personally, I don’t think they know how to achieve what they want to do, and the best thing would be to shut down the blog and start again.
In regard to the grammar thing: I am less likely to take your argument seriously if you can’t spell or use proper grammar. I understand that in the heat of the moment, you might make a typo or two. I can forgive a few honest mistakes you didn’t catch because you were in a hurry/angry/upset/whatever. But I am elitist enough to completely dismiss you if you brutalize the English language. It’s a sore spot for me.
Interestingly enough, this morning on BBC World ReportNewshour, they previewed a short segment on how the laziness with punctuation, grammar and spelling is destroying the language and creating people who can’t write well. I don’t think it has aired yet, but I’m already cringing.
In regard to the OTHER stuff, I haven’t really kept up because I wanted to avoid the rage I knew I’d feel. But this Heather person’s commentary was off-putting and ridiculous. Especially the part about free speech and closing comments. I am so tired of people getting upset for being expected to treat other human beings decently. The anti-intellectual, anti-PC crowd frustrates me to no end.
I have no interest in a nicey-nice-don’t-worry-be-happy blog. SP is meant to be a safe place, that allows individuals to express themselves in a non-threatening environment.
No. SP is meant to be a place for, well, shapely prose. We moderate people who piss us off, yes. How do most people piss us off? By saying dumb shit that is fatphobic, antifeminist, or deliberate trolling. Seriously, anyone who has read the blog — whether they’re fans or hate our guts — can tell you we’re not nice.
Yeah, SP isn’t strictly a “safe space” — it’s a space reserved for high-level discourse, which means we don’t feel the need to get sucked into the same trifling, dumb, fallacious arguments over and over again. It does function as a safe space for some people, I think, because they are intelligent and socially aware people who really just want to be in intelligent and socially aware company without being bullied. But our comments policy is not designed to keep anyone’s feelings from being hurt; it’s designed to keep the level of discourse high.
I’m not particularly surprised, however, that MamaV thinks that only hostility can be challenging, given the ways she’s reacted in this particular drama.
It’s the oddest thing–I feel pity for her. She seems like she’s gotten into something that was over her head and she doesn’t understand.
Me, too. I don’t want to excuse her behaviour or anything, but I’m getting this “Why is everyone angry with me I just wanted to HELP” vibe from her that is only made worse by the grammar issue. I feel like she jumped head-first into something she had no idea she didn’t understand. That is why most people stay readers for a long time until they start writing themselves …
Look, who knows. I believe in the right to full expression. I also believe that people get offended over the slightest issue. If someone has a problem with what I say – then that their personal emotional dysfunction. So long as what I say it true. If, however I am making stuff up, or mis-judging etc then really that would make be a total loser. It really is as simple as that.
“I feel like she jumped head-first into something she had no idea she didn’t understand. “
Generally if I feel that way, that’s a good reason for me to KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT AND MY OPINIONS TO MYSELF until I’m comparatively sure — making sure I’ve queried some people who do get it — I understand what’s going on.
I made comments on a couple of the posts at WATRD, and the writerly point could possibly be directed at me. Maybe. But if so it demonstrates massive comprehension fail.
Being a good writer is not about putting your apostrophe’s in the right places and avioding teh speling erors. It’s about having something interesting to say and MAKING YOURSELF UNDERSTOOD. I think at this point, even mamaV accepts that she has done an exceptionally poor job at making her point. She has to keep coming back on thread after thread at WATRD and other peoples’ blogs, spouting the same garbage and is authentically perplexed when people either A.) think she’s a cluless, elitist fucktard or B.) scratch their heads in generous incomprehension. I say it is generous because these kind people assume that somewhere in there is a valid concept, and are twisting their viewpoints into knots trying to see it.
Save yourself the contortions, she’s just a shitty writer.
Did any of you see her post on her own blog, mamaVision, where she posted the original “Barbie” post to see if her loyal readers “got” her sense of humor? I won’t ruin the surprise, but I highly recommend having a look.
Hey mamaV, if you’re still listening, did you ever email that poor girl (I assume she’s a girl, her tone was youthful) who had been a loyal reader of yours for 3 years, who felt shocked and betrayed by your post? As I recall she said she felt like she doesn’t even know you. The other commenters did their best to soothe her, but she was obviously quite shaken, poor thing. If you value your fans, now would probably be a good time to reach out.
To her, not to me. I haven’t seen anything of yours that would make me a fan, devoted or otherwise.
..some people are literally being held over a barrel, forced to lose weight to get the medical care or job they need.
Speaking of poor writing, the misuse of the word ‘literally’ is one of my pet peeves. Just sayin’ …
I say this as someone who did not care to follow the drama surrounding this “event,” but… You guys are SURE she’s not just a masterful troll?
Caution: impending rant that doesn’t relate to the main point of my comment. Proceed with caution.
It seems sort of obvious to me that style and grammar have a large impact on how you are perceived as a writer – actively choosing to publish yourself using careless (or dare I say it, ignorant) methods seems a lot like deciding to wear a sweatsuit to a job interview. I understand that ESL and learning disabled people have a disadvantage in this; I have a learning disability myself. But because writing is important to me, I take English Writing classes; I read articles about different ways of presenting your thoughts. Learning the about the craft has a nice way of challenging your thinking process. This can only be helpful to someone who is fairly new to writing for the public or someone who doesn’t get a whole lot of feedback from people with alternate viewpoints. Anyhow, I apologize for that. It was the indignation of a person who is trying very hard to learn the multifaceted art of writing. It’s purely personal opinion, and I am not ashamed to admit that my own writing is flawed and most likely apprentice-level work. But practice makes perfect, so thank you ladies and gentlemen for giving me another opportunity to improve myself.
(Here is where I get back to the point.) I maintain my theory that this women knows exactly what she is doing and is in all likelihood rofl-ing her ass off right now.
Interesting theory, Molly, but I really don’t think MamaV is that smart.
Yeah, I like the part where she is all antagonistic at people who don’t scream from the rooftops about how beautiful they are. Because it’s our obligation to challenge people’s perceptions all the time, because we have infinite energy, and inviting a constant stream of both sadistic and well-meaning people to attempt to relieve us of our misguided notions that we are not hideous will totally not be a burden at all.
That whole blog is just making me more and more upset. I firmly believe they have no interest in actually understanding privilege. Their actions do not suggest they would like an inclusive space. If they do, then they need help because they are certainly failing miserably.
I don’t know which is worse: that wretched blog or all the dancing ass clowns at the grammar rodeo!
I have never understood the grammar snobs (and I have an advanced degree in English/Creative Writing). Personally, I find grammar ass clowns need to seriously unpack that invisible knapsack and really examine their assumptions.
Carry on…