A True Fact: All the -isms Suck
The Gruen Transfer is an Australian show about advertising which dissects and analyzes the affects of advertising on the average human brain. As part of their show, they frequently issue challenges to agencies–create This Kind of advertisement. Sell this seemingly impossible-to-sell idea. This time around, it was make an ad about fat discrimination.
One entrant came up with an astonishing ad, and it is brutal to watch. (Click below for the link.)
You’ll find it here, and you’ll want to watch it with headphones, if you’re at work.
Basically: a series of nasty-looking people tell a series of racist jokes that will shock the breath out of you. The last joke is a fat joke. The ad asks the question: why isn’t sizeism and fat discrimination treated with the same level of outrage? You were horrified as you watched the litany of discriminatory racial jokes; why isn’t it considered just as fucked up to be prejudiced about someone’s size or weight, why isn’t it considered as wrong and morally reprehensible to make fat jokes as it is to make racist jokes?
That is a goddamn fine question. And I am embarrassed to say that it was a question that even I needed to be asked. I am a person who hates fat prejudice, who despises and loathes and rails against fat discrimination, who is sent into rages around fat hatred. And yet, I sat through the racist jokes and cringed and was horrified, but when the fat joke came, I am embarrassed to say that found myself resigned. Oh. A fat joke. Asshole.
I’m used to them. I’m inured to them. I’m angry when people make them, but not shocked, not surprised, not outraged the way I ought to be. And why aren’t I? Why aren’t all of us? Are we so resigned to the idea of fat prejudice? And how do we cut that shit out? Those are some more damn fine questions.
The ad is hard to watch, and makes its point with a slap in the face and a punch to the gut. At that link, after the ad you get the Gruen Transfer panelists discussing the ad, and the argument is that it goes too far to make its point. You get the feeling that the guy who argues most strenuously against the ad wants to say–though he never quite does–that fat discrimination does not ever quite reach the level of racism, and that the two cannot be compared in seriousness or moral reprehensibility. What do you guys think? Does the ad go too far? Does it not go far enough? Is it shock treatment, or just shocking? Tell me what you think.
Posted by jenfu
Filed under: Advertising, Advocacy, Fatism, International, Media, NSFW, Politics, Question, Race & Ethnicity, TV, Video, Weight Loss
Thanks for posting this! This is damned eye-opening and I’d like to give this guy a big fat chick hug.
The difference is that no one chooses their race, but quite often (not always, but often) people have _chosen_ to become and/or remain fat.
I think the ad has a good point, but would have worked better if they had chosen a different fat joke.
One of the reasons the last joke kind of peters out, even for people who fight against fat prejudice and know the joke is wrong, is that it isn’t offensive on the same level as the other ones. Not the subject matter, but the actual actions of the joke, I guess. I mean you have one about abortion, one about murder, one about genocide, and one about…sex? drinking? Do you see what I’m saying? If they had picked a joke that was equally as violent about fat people I think it would have worked better. If that makes sense.
Also, Bob: You sir, are wrong. Perhaps you should actually read some of the material on a site before commenting for the first time, yes?
I agree that the fat joke should have been much, much uglier. That’s my only criticism of the ad, really. The other jokes were vile and all carried a certain amount of threat. A harsher fat joke would have made the point more effectively.
Having said that, I nevertheless think it was a very strong ad. The two panelists arguing that it somehow went “too far” were frustrating to me, to the point of infuriating. The viewer is shocked to the point where they can’t handle it? It places too many demands on the viewer? Well, yeah. That’s the point. If you are one of the groups being subjected to horrible jokes like this, then you haven’t been given a choice as to whether or not you’re going to sit through them, or whether or not you’re going to endure the sentiments behind them.
I am so tired of the “delicate ears” school of thought, where the general public must be protected from language which might harm them somehow. It makes victims out of people who aren’t victims, and it allows that kind of verbal expression to remain in the dark, where it can grow, mushroomlike, without fear of exposure or outrage.
I thought it was very fitting, in the way it was presented; the lack of background, and it being shown in B&W really brings the viewer’s attention to the joke and how hurtful it is, which might seem “okay” when in a real life social setting.
Reggie: I think the point of using a fat chick joke is to show that even if it’s used in a social setting and apparently “acceptable”, it’s just as hurtful as the racist jokes. I think it’s also meant to shock: You won’t tell racist jokes, so why tell fat jokes?
Bob: NO ONE chooses to be discriminated, hated, stereotyped, and prejudiced, whether it’s race, gender, sexual orientaion, religion or body size.
As for the but-people-choooooose-to-be-fat! argument, well, people choose their religion all the time. So by Bob’s reasoning shouldn’t it also follow that people who choose to become Muslims or Wiccans or Jews or whatever faith they follow should just put up with discrimination and harassment and stereotypes because hey, they could get rid of that headscarf or pentacle jewellery, etc, and pass as Good Christians. Are you saying that’s OK because they have a “choice”?
I do think the less spiteful fat joke does kind of kill the point, after a series of jokes about abortion, murder and genocide, who’s going to give a crap about a joke about someone not being able to get laid? It would have worked better if all of the jokes were more similar in style, be it all death wish jokes, or the less spiteful sort.
Also, contrary to the current popular beliefs, weight is determined 75%-95% by genetics, depending on what study you look at. I have no idea how society can accept naturally thin people without an issue while claiming naturally fat people don’t exist, it’s logically flawed, that’s like saying there is no such thing as a naturally short person, they did it to themselves. If people choose to get off of the diet roller coaster after years of failure, it’s marked as a personal shortcoming, a lack of willpower, they should have tried harder, when in fact a lot of these people are finally learning how to eat healthy food, because they want to, learning that exercise can be fun, instead of frustrating, because for once, they’re looking for attainable results, of health, defined by low cholesterol, low blood pressure, not getting sick as often, strength, stamina, and energy, instead of judging their success by numbers on a scale.
Okay, I’m done ranting now.
They should have either made a much harsher fat joke (and trust me, even I can come up with a more emotionally crippling line!) or they should have found a way to relate the types of bigoted thoughts people have about fat people with bigoted thoughts of a similar nature aimed at other oppressed groups. To say something like, “oh, people wouldn’t be so suspicious of blacks if they’d stop committing crimes and such” or “I wouldn’t hate gays so much if they’d just knock it off and be straight” stems from the same strand of absent-minded bigotry that “I’d stop being cruel to fat people if they’d just lose weight and become healthier (thinner)” originates from, in my opinion.
Comparing fat jokes to the holocaust or actual hate crimes is pushing the message way too far to a point that even I wouldn’t sympathize with it if I wasn’t already a size acceptance advocate.
I can see how this ad could be shocking if shown in the middle of a television broadcast. Since I was warned before seeing it, and had heard all these “jokes” before anyway, it hardly affected me. I was more annoyed than shocked.
An ad like this will only be effective for a short time. After it’s been seen a gazillion times on YouTube, get ready for the sad copies and parodies. Oh, and more fat jokes, unfortunately.
I don’t think the ad went too far. I do think it fell short by the time it got to the fat joke. If the intent was to equate shape discrimination with other forms of discrimination, then the representation of shape discrimination should have been equal as well. In the end, the message is correct. NO form of discrimination should be tolerated.
I’m saddened that for many it takes something this extreme to even begin to affect them about this subject. Society as a whole has been accepting of shape discrimination for far too long. From those that perpetuate it (thinking they’re doing some sort of favor by pointing out the ‘problem’) to those on the receiving end (who many times feel that they are deserving of that kind of behavior).
I applaud the ad creator for having the “balls” to bring this out in the open, including his realization of his own lapse in judgement. Bravo dude.
While I like that they’ve had a go at challenging size discrimination, and that Adam from The Foundry did have an epiphany about his own attitude while working on this project, I do think that the actual advertisement itself is a little ineffective. Yes, it’s shocking and it does draw the link between racism, homophobia and size discrimination, I think in that format it goes right past the kind of people it should be targeting.
Instead of challenging them, it actually gives them ammunition in more “jokes” they can use.
However, kudos to not only The Foundry but also The Gruen Transfer for having a damn good go at addressing the issue in the advertising firmament.
The ad that did actually screen was, in my opinion, the far more offensive one. Their response to “The Pitch” was to ‘promote’ fat people by proclaiming their excessive consumption was helping the national economy – by eating more, needing two plane seats etc etc. The first ad, which was deemed to be less offensive than that made by the Foundry, was itself a discriminatory fat joke.
Hello there!
I have Two things to say and i will say them:
1) I think this ad is creative and really does do a damn good job showing that fatism is discrimination or at least wrong (something that obviously isn’t an axiom like racism etc.), regardless of whether they chose the right jokes or not.
2) The whole “My righteous self is so shocked right now because of these hateful words that make me feel like the world is not full of pink butterflies” CRAP is ridiculous… banned? It’s AGAINST racism people. I mean… seriously (by the way, the Jewish one wasn’t racist – it was just insensitive and maybe a bit hateful.. and the second one was just idiotic). OK i’m done.
I like the idea; and I think a slap in the face is sometimes necessary. Perhaps if they took the route of showing fat people of various ethnicities and used slurs that are stereotypically applied to fat people (lazy, dirty, stupid, etc.), and then made the point that these slurs had nothing to do with their respective races but everything to do with their size, and isn’t that just as wrong.
OK. Let me start by saying that I found the video fascinating. I’m also saddened that conversations like this just wouldn’t happen on American TV.
Yes – I think the fat chick joke wasn’t harsh enough and it took me a second to align it with the other jokes. Like the team judging I was horrified (even tho I was prepared for it) immediately.
However, what bothered me entirely was that their comments seemed to align that making fun of someone’s size wasn’t as bad as their orientation/religion/race. I agree with the creator of the ad 100% – that was his WHOLE point. And this isn’t about “choice” – I haven’t met one person (large or small) who wouldn’t be hurt if the joke was told about them.
Great stuff and fodder for thought.
Am I the only one that didn’t really get *any* of the “jokes?” I kept trying to figure out the connection between the question and the punchline. I still don’t get the Santa/chimney one.
Oh, crap. I think I just got it.
I didn’t get some of the jokes, I was just like wha? I rewound the clip a few times trying to get both the one about black women and the one about fat ppl – I had to google them finally, then I got it (dense, I know). But, I thought they were sort of all the same level of appalling… maybe I’m desensitized?
Oh, the santa/chimney one I had to replay, once, but then I got it. (I know, I know, maybe I’m just slow).
I am not saying that fatism is okay, or that fat jokes are not offensive. But: I may go outside and some asshole may make a fat joke. Not that words don’t hurt me, but my gay neighbours might get stabbed with a knife just for being in the wrong part of the city. The fat girl in the joke at the end is seen as unf*ckable without alcohol, but blacks, gays, jews in the first three jokes are seen as people that are not worthy to live. How can you call the third joke “a bit” hateful? If that one is a bit hateful, than the fat joke in the end is a friendly compliment.
Please keep also in mind that the offended people are maybe the usual victims of the first three jokes, not people who want to hang on to their habit of telling fat jokes. It’s not as if the world is a place where those jokes are never heard and everybody behaved like an angel to everyone else exept fat people.
I just sat down and watched this with my fiance, and he noted that a similar point could have been made without having to include all the other jokes – and perhaps it might be more effective.
Perhaps there could have been a scene shown where such jokes would be common: a couple of ‘normal’ (privileged) guys sitting in a pub drinking. One cracks a fat joke (perhaps the one in the ad) and all his mates react as if he’d calmly stated one of the more violent racist ones – they recoil, go silent, stare at him. Perhaps the whole pub goes quiet and the barman asks him to leave.
This would equate shape discrimination to other kinds of discrimination, the kinds that are forbidden by law and that a reasonable person would find horrifying. It also sidesteps possible arguments such as that Holocaust jokes are worse than fat jokes – it just presents a fat joke as being terrible and unacceptable, and leaves it at that.
I think what shocked me most was the sexism of the ‘fat’ joke plus the discussion panel’s casual use of the word “chick” instead of the word woman. It seems that sadly sexism is still an acceptable “ism” …
Personally, I thought it was a really good ad. Unfortunately I don’t think many people will think fat jokes fall into the the same category as the others regardless of the ad. I would still like to see it out there. I think it would be a good paper ad as well.
I thought the panel discussion afterwards was quite interesting as they bantered back and forth. All sides had some interesting points.
Tristian, I love your fiancee’s idea! I have thought of (a version of) that before, and would fall out of my chair if i saw that air on tv.
While I agree that fat jokes should be considered along the same vein (and reacted to with the same disdain) as those about race/sexual identity and so forth, I think the tendency to feel that the ad went “too far” comes not from the idea that weight is a choice, but rather by the historical weight of the other type of jokes- while it is bigoted and unjust to make fun of body type, fat people don’t have a history of being discriminated against in the same violent, societally prevalent, and vile ways as most of the other targeted groups. Yes, prejudice against larger people certainly exists and is despicable, but it does not carry with it the weight of slavery, institutional discrimination, and hate crimes.
People who tell fat jokes but not racist or anti-semitic jokes aren’t going to believe that the fat joke is just as bad as the others. The ad doesn’t tell you why these jokes are all equally bad; it just tells you that they are. If you don’t already think that way you can just say ‘no they aren’t’ and dismiss it.
I don’t believe that one group should co-opt another’s pain and suffering and say that theirs is comparable. All forms of discrimination are bad but they are not the same. If you have never experienced that other groups pain and suffering yourself then you have no right to make a comparison. It should be possible to say that sizeism is bad without saying that it is just as bad as [insert ism].
I’m also not entirely comfortable with the way the ad works. It says ‘you (those decent and sane) already know these forms of discrimination are bad, but did you know that this was just as bad!!’. It relies on the idea that the fights against racism and anti-semitism already have public-support and awareness and that the work there is largely done. That would come as a surprise to a lot of bloggers against racism and anti-semitism, perhaps someone ought to tell them that they’re wasting their time.
Being both Jewish and overweight, I can not begin to say how hurtful I found the “jokes” in the comercial.
I do appreciate the fact the author is trying to bring fat-ism to the public eye, but think it could have been done without hurtful racist and anti-semitic jokes.
As I was reading the comments above, I noticed someone mentioned gay-bashing and race-crimes. People who are overweight may not be beat down in an alley somewhere, but they are discriminated against when applying for jobs and healthcare similiar to the other groups mentioned. And anyone who was overweight as a child was probably bullied and physically abused by other children and possibly adults.