Q&A With PastaQueen
Jennette Fulda, better known as PastaQueen, may have lost a couple hundred or so pounds, but she’s been a commenter on and visitor to Big Fat Deal for a long time. On a blog tour for her memoir, Half of Me, she offered to stop by and answer the toughest questions I could come up with about weight loss and fat acceptance. Feel free to discuss the book, her responses, or my questions in the comments here—I know it will be a respectful and interesting discussion. Thanks again to Jennette for answering these questions so extensively, and giving us so much food for thought.
You say: “Whenever I tried hanging around fat-acceptance sites, I felt as if they were trying to make me feel bad for wanting to be thin, which was just as bad as anyone who tried to make me feel bad for being fat… if there were simply a self-acceptance movement, maybe I could have joined that.” What do you see as being the differences between “self acceptance” and “fat acceptance”? What would your self acceptance movement look like?
Before I make any comments about the fat acceptance movement, I’d like to acknowledge that there are many different ideas and forces at work within it, just like any philosophical or political movement. Asking someone what they think of fat acceptance is like asking them what they think about feminism or democracy or Bob Dylan. Maybe you liked his acoustic stuff, but didn’t care for the electric album. The current battle going on in the American Democratic party is proof that even when people are on the same side, they can disagree vehemently on certain issues. I was very careful in my book to only mention my personal experiences with the FA movement. I’m not trying to summarize it as a whole or write any treatises or manifestos. My book is a memoir, so it covers my memories and my personal experiences, nothing else.
That being said, I have visited fat acceptance sites where people tried to make me feel bad about my desire to lose weight. I never told anyone else to lose weight. I never tried to make anyone else feel bad for being fat. I just had to admit that I didn’t like being fat and I didn’t think there was anything wrong with that. If I didn’t like being a brunette, no one would give me shit about dying my hair blonde. At the same time however, I believe that fat people should not be discriminated against or made to feel bad because of their weight and that fat people deserve equal rights. I just think it’s okay if you prefer not to be one of those fat people. Not everyone agreed with me, which is why some of the sites I personally visited were less like fat acceptance sites and more like “accept you if you’re fat” sites, or at least “accept you if you’re fat and you like it” sites. Acceptance that comes with terms attached isn’t truly acceptance.
So, the difference I see between fat acceptance and self acceptance is that self acceptance means you are cool with whatever you are – fat, thin, a fat person who wants to be thin or even a thin person who wants to be fat. Many people in the fat acceptance movement embody this philosophy brilliantly, others not so much.
In your memoir, you also talk about fat girls who “let their thunder thighs steal their thunder.” What would you say to those girls?
First off, I promise that you are not nearly as fat as you think you are. I look back at photos from high school when I felt like a human blob and now I think “You were so thin!” Second, your size only matters as much as you let it. If you’re really self-conscious and feel bad about yourself, it will show in your body language no matter how big or small you are. If you walk into a room confidently, it will radiate out of you. There are many plus-sized role models who demonstrate these qualities, like Queen Latifah or Beth Ditto, and hopefully there will be many more in the future.
You talk about weight loss blogs and fat acceptance blogs not being mutually exclusive–and yet I’m sure many bloggers would disagree with you. Some fat acceptance blogs are not welcoming of people trying to lose weight at all, and some weight loss blogs claim that fat acceptance is the same as turning one’s back on weight loss. Do you think either of these concerns is valid? I think ultimately both of those types of blogs are about the same thing – the right to do with your body as you chose. For some people that means losing weight and for others it’s declaring that they don’t feel a need to drop any pounds. Just as fat acceptance members don’t want people to give them crap about being fat, people who are losing weight don’t want people to give them crap about eating salads.
Sometimes people take their pride so far in one direction that they create shame in the other direction. For instance, I’ve read threads on message boards where overweight women justifiably complain about how women are mocked on tabloid covers for being fat. Then those same women will make jokes about Kate Bosworth for being a “bag of sticks” and say she should “eat a cheeseburger.” How is this any different than saying a fat girl is a “tub of lard” who should “get on a treadmill?” In both cases you’re ridiculing women for their bodies. Some women are naturally fat and others are naturally thin, and neither group deserves to be humiliated or degraded because of that.
If the lines of communication were more open and welcoming between these groups, I think we could make a lot more positive progress in the world than we do by hating on each other. There aren’t that many people who’ve lived life as a morbidly obese person and as a thin person. This gives me a unique perspective on issues and it would be sad if I was shut out from sharing it with one group or the other simply because of my current size. Sometimes I’ve gotten nasty comments on my blog from people on the extreme edges of the fat acceptance movement. It’s ironic that in a movement that is about not judging people for their size, they’ve stopped by to judge me because of my size.
You talk about accepting yourself, and in that process, accepting that you weren’t happy being fat. Do you think it’s possible to accept yourself as a fat person without accepting your fatness? Do you think the fact that you thought of it this way is what enabled you to lose the weight? In other words, do you think if you’d been a more self-confident fat girl, you might never have been motivated to become thin?
No matter how self-confident I might have been, there were things about being morbidly obese that just sucked. It had nothing to do with what fashion editors in New York put on the covers of magazines. I was so fat that I injured my knee walking up the stairs. I had to have my gallbladder removed at age 23. I became exhausted just tossing a ball around with my cat. My weight was seriously inhibiting me from living the life I wanted to lead. Because of that, I believe I would have been motivated to lose weight no matter what.
So, I obviously knew I was fat and accepted that I was currently a fat person. However, I also believed that I could lose weight and live a healthier lifestyle – and I did. I didn’t accept that being fat was an inescapable part of my life, and for me that turned out to be true.
You lost a great deal of weight without surgery, and have kept it off. Do you think it’s possible or desirable for every fat person to do what you did?
I think every man and woman faces different challenges when it comes to weight loss. Some people are naturally thinner than others and don’t have to work as hard to be slender. Some battle eating disorders which can make it dangerous for them to try losing weight because they do so in ways that are harmful to their health. Some people just don’t have access to fresh fruits and vegetables and lean meats that are part of a healthy diet. These are aspects of our lives that we don’t control. However, we can all exert some control over our environment by choosing to exercise and to make the best eating choices available to us. So, I think weight loss is definitely possible, though it may be harder for some people than others, and potentially dangerous if they go about it in the wrong way.
As far as desirable goes, I think it’s desirable to eat healthy and maintain an active lifestyle. Many times that leads to weight loss, but you can still be somewhat overweight and healthy. According to my BMI, I’m still technically overweight, but all my medical tests say I’m in excellent health. Ultimately, everyone has a right to do with their body as they chose, so they get to lead whatever lifestyle they want to, be it fat or thin, fit or unfit, or any mixture of those adjectives. Leading the life you want to lead is the most desirable thing of all.
You also say you don’t feel like a fat person on the inside anymore. Do you think you were disconnected from your body when you were very heavy? Or do you think the gradual process of weight loss helped you to adjust? Or is there another reason?
I feel defined by my actions. Last weekend I ran a half marathon, which is not something a morbidly obese person can do. (They might be able to walk it, but I don’t know of any 400-pound people who can run the whole thing.) I can carry my groceries up the stairs without panting. I can fit into my car without my belly brushing the wheel. All of these things make up my daily life and make me feel like a thin person.
The slow process of losing weight over 3 years certainly helped me adjust to the changes. I used to check myself out in the mirror ALL THE TIME when I was losing weight, a lot more than I do now. I think it was my mind’s way of recalibrating my self-image every day.
Also, when I was morbidly obese, I didn’t quite have a sense of how fat I was. When I watched a video of myself or saw photos, I was shocked by how large I appeared. It was like hearing my voice on an answering machine and not quite believing it was me. So yeah, I was disconnected from my body back then. I find that all the exercise that I do these days keeps me in touch with what my body is capable of and more in tune with it in general.
There’s been talk in the fatosphere recently about people’s healthy eating habits, exercise regimes, or weight loss being threatening and triggering, or reinforcing the idea of low-self esteem, of something being “wrong” with you if you aren’t thin. People reading this might see the discussion of your weight loss memoir in a size acceptance blog a hostile act. Admittedly, this is an extreme point of view, but what would you say to counteract it?
As I said earlier, my book is about my personal experiences. No one has to live the life I led or make the choices I made. The decision as to whether you should try to lose weight, or if you even need to, is up to every individual. What I’d like for people to understand after reading my book is that you can lose weight without it being an act of self-hate or self-loathing. And you can learn a lot about yourself through the process.
I think you hinted at the answer in your question when you said “size acceptance” and not “fat acceptance” or “thin acceptance.” I think we all want to be accepted no matter what our size – fat, thin or shifting in between. Just as people who are fat don’t want to be attacked for not being thin, people who used to be fat don’t want to be attacked for having become thin. If we’re going to accept people’s bodies, we’ve got to accept them no matter what size they are, have been, or will be in the future. You’re not really being accepting if you say it’s only okay if someone stays fat or stays thin and anyone who changes their dress size is evil. If size truly is irrelevant to our personal identity, it doesn’t really matter whether you’re fat, thin, shrinking or expanding.
Many times our reactions are more about our own issues than anything else. If you automatically assume that everyone who talks about exercise and eating right is judging you for not being thin, it probably speaks more to your own feelings about your weight than anything someone on the Stairmaster is really thinking about you. I don’t think I’m superior to anyone else because I run 3 times a week and I find it odd that some people assume I do feel that way.
What would you say to Big Fat Deal readers who are focused on body acceptance and not trying to lose weight. Why would they want to read your book?
While my book is a weight-loss memoir, ultimately it’s about transformation and the possibilities life holds for all of us. I’ve always liked the parts of body acceptance that emphasize possibilities and I dislike the parts that focus on limitations. On the surface, my book is about losing a lot of weight, but the deeper message is that you can shape your life into whatever you want it to be. You can lose a ton of weight, find a better job, get out of a bad relationship, start a salt-water taffy stand – whatever you want to do, you can do it!
I also hope they would read it and understand that you can love your body and be making changes to it at the same time. Self-acceptance isn’t the same thing as self-satisfaction. Self-acceptance means you’ve faced the truth of who you are, flaws and all. Self-satisfaction means you’re happy with it. I think it’s okay to admit that there are things you don’t like about yourself and to strive to make changes in a positive way. It’s okay to admit that you don’t like being fat. It doesn’t have to mean that you hate yourself. It just means there’s something you want to change in your life. As long as you go about it in a healthy, sane manner, there’s nothing wrong with that.
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Beth Ditto, Books, Exercise, Meta, Question, Weight Loss, WLS
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I’m curious, Rachel: would you also urge those who have characterized other commenters on this thread as “whiny,” “shrill,” jealous,” “akin to watching Jerry Springer whose show I find disgusting and therefore do not watch” to imagine themselves face-to-face with the person they’re responding to?
I just hope that we can all articulate that anger in ways that do not make Mo or Jennette feel as if their characters are being attacked, also.
I haven’t attacked anyone’s character, nor would I. I have instead questioned their actions and the message they’re promoting, which is what “a respectful and interesting discussion” is all about. But, as I’ve pointed out, any number of commenters have attacked my character, and that of other FA/HAES advocates commenting on this thread. Apparently that’s all right though?
In evaluating our comments, I think we have to ask: “If Mo or Jennette were standing in front of me, face-to-face, how would I phrase my rebuttal to them?” and then post accordingly.
Actually, what I’m thinking about is our 14-year-old, because we told her she was perfect just as she was. Reading the posts on this thread, I’m afraid she might realise how few people actually believe that. So I’ll be defending fat acceptance ’til I’m blue in the face, because it matters. Keep the insults coming.
I deliberately framed my comments so as not to single out any one person. My suggestion to frame comments in the same way you would speak to someone in person holds true for everyone. And I think Mo has been considerably civil and neutral in her comments to folks here. Perhaps we could all take a cue from her.
Keep the insults coming.
Does anyone else see the futility in trading insults when we could instead be exchanging constructive debate? Sorry, I just see the angry defensiveness and venomous barbs here to be counterproductive to people on both sides of the issue.
Mo, I don’t think anyone is attacking your blog. I think your blog is great. You’ve done so much to help fat women realise they deserve respect and good treatment, and I think that’s wonderful. But I think people were attacking/questioning your choice to promote a book on weight loss on a fat acceptance blog.
I know you don’t know me from Adam, but. If I may make a suggestion, Mo?
Would you consider answering any of the comments that are in dissent but make their points without resorting to name-calling? I think if people feel that their polite disagreements are listened to and respected, that they will feel less angry. Hopefully the tone of the exchange will take its cue from you.
Just my two cents in favor of unity and pacifism.
P.S. I’ve noticed that people against the entry keep repeating that they don’t care if PQ diets, they have other objections, while (almost) every comment against *them* repeats that those dissenters are angry because she’s dieting, and seems angry that they are angry. This disconnect looks like it is exacerbating the mutual anger, so if you could defuse it things might settle down.
I believe that Mo has gone out of her way to explain that this blog of hers does not take the official FA acceptance stance. This blog is not a “safe” place for people who are in the FA movement. This blog is a place for thoughtful discussion on all areas of SIZE acceptance and has many times had posts that relate to weight loss efforts as well as fat acceptance.
Rather than turn on this blog or on Mo, if you are uncomfortable with what Mo is posting, why don’t you just go somewhere else? This is not an open forum- it is a blog that has open comments- and an open door if what is being posted makes you feel “unsafe” or violated. Because really, you could have just skipped over this post- even if it was in the fatosphere feed.
I am overweight and I hate being fat. I actively am losing weight. My health is about the same whether I am thin or fat (have been both) but I FEEL better physically when I am thin. I am totally into each person being accepted in society regardless of physical appearance and I would not even begin to assume what someone elses life is like based on their physical size. I appreciate all the posts on here and I just look the other way when there are people who comment on here that make it seem there is something wrong with me being fat and not wanting to be, so I would assume you could look the other way when occasionally there is a posting of someone who relates directly to how I feel like PQ does.
Isn’t it fair that we all have a voice here?
It’s not a fat acceptance blog, becky. Or, not “strictly” fat acceptance.
Rachel, to be really really honest, I saw that you framed it thus, but the message was still that the “extreme view” of actual fat acceptance in the face of the anti-FA question(s), anti-FA and anti-fat replies, and the flat-out fat-hating comments were to be “tolerated” while the FA comments were to be moderated. And so it has been. I guess in a way I was attacking the blog, though unintentionally; it wasn’t until like my tenth time reading through to see where *I* was wrong that I finally noticed that I wasn’t. How could blatant fat-hating comments be allowed to stand, even though the question(s) were anti_FA (it’s extreme) and the answers were smugly anti-fat, and the comments were *outright fat-hating*? I think the trouble is that some people want to define the “center” of the FA debate, and label others as “radical.” Well, no. You’re not the “center” and dieting books (hahafatpants!) certainly aren’t the center. Not that anyone HAS to be the center. But neither are pro-FA people the “extreme” or the “limit.”
See, Red No 3 has created monsters. Except totally not because we were already monsters sick of society’s message. It was all bound to happen :) As Pani said, it’s all been done!
Mo, I, for one, love your blog. And the fact that people feel so strongly about it is a measure of its worth. Thank you for the work you put into it.
stungunbilly, as much as I would have loved to respond to every comment, and would love to do so now, I simply haven’t had the time over the past couple of days. I won’t go into the details of my multiple jobs, but suffice it to say it’s been a perfect storm of work this week.
As a result, I didn’t even see the thread until it was already quite long. I would have deleted the trolling comments if I’d seen them in time, but by the time they had garnered multiple responses, it seemed too late. Also, I hate restricting and editing comments in any way on this blog. I would have basically had to delete half the conversation!
Anyway, I’ve tried to explain why I posted the interview and asked the questions; I didn’t write the answers, nor do I automatically agree with every word just because it’s posted on my blog. I figure that’s pretty obvious. Did you have anything specifically you’d like me to address? I’ll do my best.
And just for the record, all comments are being moderated at the moment. So far I’ve approved them all, I think; if you don’t see your comment, feel free to drop me an e-mail.
My bad lifestyle caused me to go from being underweight (I was naturally thin and then several factors came into play which changed that.) Then I got up to 180 pounds, which is a lot of my frame. (Now, since I lost the weight I guess you could say this is my natural set point, but had I not changed my lifestyle I would still be that big. So…where is setpoint theory then? )
I cannot buy half of what I’m told by the FA movement about fat and health or “setpoints” or any of the other things bandied about. Why? Because I’ve LIVED it. And know many others who have as well. I feel like those who say being obese has no effect on health are like the 90 year old smoker who just happens to have stayed healthy after 3 packs a day for 70 years.
It’s the exception.
There are countless studies on what obesity does to ones’ health. It did things to my health that I’m just now recovering from. I gained a LOT of weight from poor lifestyle and I lost it from better lifestyle. So…hmmm. I am not alone in my experience.
Also, I find it disingenuous that so many fat bloggers who are stating “no health issues with obesity” are in their twenties and thirties.
One important thing that is just starting to be really studied and understood is the importance of vitamin D on health and a long list of health issues vitamin D deficiency is linked to. Obese people cannot properly absorb vitamin D, it gets trapped in the fat. So when I hear words like “cognitive dissonance” from people who deny that obesity affects health, I can’t believe the level of science you have to completely blatantly ignore to get that.
I think PQ makes a fabulous point about self acceptance NOT being about your weight. Your weight is not WHO you are. And when people talk about health issues and weight, they are NOT secretly “hating” you and looking for reasons to be mean to you. They are really talking about health issues.
I have very little respect for the way this movement has tried to conflate health and appearance. Someone talks about health and the discussion gets shifted to “beauty ideals” when no one was even talking about that.
It’s because beauty ideals are an easier thing to argue. There are too many studies that show the health rammifications for MOST people of obesity.
I feel like the FA movement has become rife with conspiracy theorists and it’s going to hurt the anti-discrimination cause. Because most people are going to consider the movement a joke if they dont’ get back to real science.
In addition, “genetics” accounts for only 8 pounds of weight in an individual. The “fat gene” does not cause THAT much weight gain. What is inherited far more than fat genes, is bad habits. And lets face it, the bulk majority of americans sit around and eat crap. We shouldn’t be shocked that so many people have gotten so big.
If you think this makes me hateful, I feel you don’t live in the same reality the rest of us do. And I feel like an oversensitivity to the issues causes you to be defensive and see everything as a personal attack. It’s not a personal attack. And I resent people acting like I’m a mean, nasty, hateful person for simply stating: “Hey, you guys sound insane when you go on like this.”
This level of sensitivity while perhaps warranted because of how others have treated you should not automatically be leveled at everyone who disagrees with you.
For some reason, ever since I read this article, the traditional fat acceptance folk who have either been stung by it, or accused of rudeness have been in my heart all day. As an ‘Old Timer” in the movement I have some further thoughts I would like to share. On my OWN blog. Since I personally don’t want to contribute to any more acrimony here, please let me say if you don’t agree with my perspective or are very sensitive please do not go there:
http://tinyurl.com/6ovged
And I just have to say this to yoganut! As a sociologist who has researched this issue for over 2 decades, most studies that find fat is unhealthy are deliberately inflated by their sponsors – PHARMA. I have been trained on how to do studies properly(and most of them are surveys, not clinical studies) and what is hitting the news and scaring the impressionable public are laughable! It is marketing, NOT science!!!
Health – ill or not, is not reason for discrimination to take place against anyone – fat or thin. In additino, people used to openly mock fat people for being fat, and they have been given an excuse to do so openly in recent years by throwing in “health” (thanks to a lot of false reporting and junk science – I’d suggest a long long session at junkfoodscience) when their reason is quite obviously not concern for someone’s health. But even if it were, fat people aren’t going anywhere and until fat people are afforded the same rights and respect due to them as human beings, fat acceptance advocates aren’t going anywhere either. So get used to it.
Also, you act like no one in FA has “lived it.” Of course they have. All of them. Some have never been thin, others have been rail-skinny then got fat, others have always been in between, others have starved themselves or binge eaten, many if not most have attempted to lose weight and met varying degrees of success – some lose nothing despite their best efforts; most lose less each time they try and gain more back; some – about 2% – might lose a significant amount and keep it off – there are a plethora of experiences and each person is an ocean of them. Rather than calling them all insane you might try listening more.
Also, the twin study showed that weight is at least 77% genetic.
Yoganut, you describe your own experience with your weight and health. But that is YOUR experience. It does not match my experience, or that of many of the other people here.
But, even if everything you say about health and weight is true, what would you have us do about it? Because there is no sure-fire way for most of us to lose significant amounts of weight and keep if off. There just isn’t. And medical research DOES back up this point.
I ran a MARATHON while “morbidly obese.” AND I copied all the comments because I think this is a great discussion. And I’m sad that the blog seems to be down now. AND I wonder how much obsessing about food/exercise PQ will be doing over the next 10, 20, 30 years…
Mo, that makes a lot of sense; it’s hard to keep up with a comment thread and maintain one’s life!
It does clear things up for you to make a statement like that, because it’s always the OP who is looked to be the arbiter, and things were getting quite tangled. I really feel that there is a lot of misunderstanding going on, and it made me really sad to see people denigrating each other. So thank you.
Yoganut–I just wanted to point out that in one sentence you declare our sensitivity is warranted by “how others have treated you” when in the previous sentence you have declared that we sound “insane.” (Two groups insulted for the price of one.)
And you have done the classic thing of telling us a story about your OWN body and then extrapolating it to everyone. You know because you have lived it. We all know our own bodily experiences, that doesn’t mean they apply to anyone else. And I think this is a general underlying problem that people are responding to in the interview–both that when people hear diet stories they often extrapolate it to others (anyone can/should do it!) and that declarations like “400 lb people can’t be healthy/run a half marathon”) are statements about one body that get applied to others. Anecdata.
(Now, since I lost the weight I guess you could say this is my natural set point, but had I not changed my lifestyle I would still be that big. So…where is setpoint theory then? )
Setpoints vary within a range — I believe 20-30lb is the current theory. If you’re moving less and eating more, you’ll probably be nearer the top of that range. If you’re moving more and eating less, you’ll be around the bottom. I have no idea what you weigh now so I can’t say if your weight now is likely to just be the lower end of your natural range, but perhaps that is the explanation.
I cannot buy half of what I’m told by the FA movement about fat and health or “setpoints” or any of the other things bandied about. Why? Because I’ve LIVED it.
And you think no one else on here has life experiences? In the past several years I’ve been 115lb, I’ve been 164lb, and I’ve been everywhere in between. You’re acting as if everyone here has been hugely fat since birth and is just trying to find some way of rationalising that to themselves. That simply is not the case.
I feel like those who say being obese has no effect on health are like the 90 year old smoker who just happens to have stayed healthy after 3 packs a day for 70 years.
It’s the exception.
No, it isn’t. If you read some of the links on that page, you might learn a bit about where we’re coming from. There is very little evidence regarding increased health risk and increased weight that doesn’t confuse correlation with causation — a major no-no in any scientific study that isn’t looking for a pre-determined conclusion. The evidence against increased weight as a risk factor for health problems, however, is mounting.
There are countless studies on what obesity does to ones’ health.
Countless studies? Link me some. And then check whether Sandy‘s covered them. I bet they don’t show what you think they show.
Also, I find it disingenuous that so many fat bloggers who are stating “no health issues with obesity” are in their twenties and thirties.
Well, a) most bloggers are in their twenties and thirties, full stop (or period for the Americans) — it’s not often an older person’s game. And b) many people in their twenties and thirties don’t have major health issues. So I don’t really know what your point is here. You think thin people don’t become more at risk for health issues as they get older? You think no one should comment on health and weight until they’ve passed a certain age checkpoint?
Also, most people in the fatosphere don’t use the term “obesity” as it medicalises the human body. Being above a certain weight is not a medical condition. So if you’d like to do us the courtesy of referring to us by our chosen terminology, the appropriate word is “fat”.
I think PQ makes a fabulous point about self acceptance NOT being about your weight. Your weight is not WHO you are.
Your body is who you are, though. Completely indivisible from you. It’s what you move around in, what you face the world in, it’s what allows you to feel and do and be. When it dies, you die. And since we don’t know how to make fat people permanently thin, for most fat people, their weight and their body are indivisible too. So you can either accept yourself as you physically are in this world, or you can spend your whole life miserable and trying to be something else. Guess which one has more money in it for the diet industry?
And when people talk about health issues and weight, they are NOT secretly “hating” you and looking for reasons to be mean to you. They are really talking about health issues.
Nah, they aren’t. This is about aesthetics, ’cause fat people just aren’t trying hard enough to look good. If people were actually concerned about the health of fat people, they wouldn’t be continually be trying to shame them into behaviour that a) doesn’t work and b) causes them physical harm. Besides which, what is it to you if an adult human being exercises personal autonomy to eat and exercise (or not) as they see fit? Being healthy is not a moral imperative. My health is my business, and every other fat person’s health is theirs. No one has an obligation to be healthy just because you want them to.
In addition, “genetics” accounts for only 8 pounds of weight in an individual. The “fat gene” does not cause THAT much weight gain.
Oh, the stunning misunderstanding of science. As a geneticist (yes, really), let me tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about. Start with this study, which shows that weight is roughly as heritable as height. A clue: there is no such thing as “a fat gene”. And I think you might want to lay off with the “ignoring real science” accusations here.
And I resent people acting like I’m a mean, nasty, hateful person for simply stating: “Hey, you guys sound insane when you go on like this.”
How about when you imply that anyone who gains back weight after being on a diet is lazy and undisciplined and “can’t give up the junk food crack pipe”? (Oh wait, you didn’t imply the last bit, you actually said it.) How about when you accuse us of “lying to ourselves and others”? How about when you tell us to “get over it” when we question the promotion of weight-loss dieting in a pro-FA space? How about when you tell us we’re just too angry about social injustice? How about when you toss aside someone’s phenomenal athletic achievements because she’s fat and not posting a blow-by-blow of every bite she puts in her mouth? Any of those coming off as mean, nasty and hateful to you?
This level of sensitivity while perhaps warranted because of how others have treated you should not automatically be leveled at everyone who disagrees with you.
Can I level it at people who call me a delusional, angry, oversensitive, insecure liar, though? Is that all right? I want to make sure I have your permission.
Pennylane, the majority of FA people who preach the “health at every size” rhetoric are speaking from THEIR experience.
Anyway I’m done with this. Believe what you want. Seriously, I think it’s insane. period. Saying an idea is crazy is not the same as saying a person is crazy. Saying someone is enabling an “angry fat person” stereotype is NOT the same as saying “you’re all just a bunch of angry fat people.”
Nuance is completely lost on anyone with such a high emotional stake in an argument. So hey…you win. Rah rah. But remember, debate “winning” isn’t the same thing as being factually correct.
The FA movement IMO is run on “who has the most snarky rhetoric” and out in the real world that means very little. (feel free to misinterpret this entire post as well.)
I really don’t think PQ’s story is a “diet story” persay. She was unhappy with her life and body at 370lbs and wanted to change her life, losing weight in the process. After seeing the comments, I can see why she may have experienced what she did in relation to the FA “movement” in wanting to change her life perspective – both physically and mentally.
I have read her book and I don’t think that she was trying to “push on to others” weight loss or “cheerlead” weight loss. She never said that you should do it. It is a personal decision to want to physically change your body. That was a decision she made for herself.
There were things in her book that I related with and other things I didn’t. However, it doesn’t negate her experience, because it was something I never experienced. It was her story to tell. If you don’t want to hear it, don’t read the book.
Anyway, Mo, I really like your blog and I went back and read your “manifesto.” I can totally relate to what you said. Right now, I am trying to lead a healtier life, eating better and getting more exercise. If it leads to weight loss, that would be great. If it doesn’t, that is fine too. My highest weight was 370lbs (lost 40) and for me personally, I couldn’t run a marathon at that weight. However, that is one of my goals that I am working towards.
There was a discussion a while back about whether or not an individual’s ability to lose weight or interest in losing weight is a threat to size acceptance, and this discussion here really seems to be just a more specific way of looking at the same question, and at a whole new level.
I was trying to explain why I had an issue with some of PastaQueen’s comments from an FA standpoint, but it got really long so I decided to spare the pain for those of you who wish to avoid it, and put it on my own blog here.
My main point, which has been made and ignored by others but I’ll give it another try anyway, is that I don’t think anyone’s mad at anyone else for losing weight. What is troubling to me is the intended or unintended implication that weight loss or gain is a matter of choice. For most people, fighting your natural body shape is a losing battle requiring such rigorous dieting and exercise that it is for all practical purposes impossible. What’s more, dieting is thought to be bad for your physical and mental health, and likely to leave you fatter than when you started. Is it a good idea to engage in healthy eating and exercise behaviors? Sure, but they might not make you thin or even un-fat. The idea that you simply choose to be thin or fat is what I most objected to in PQ’s responses.
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This conversation really opened my eyes to the fat acceptance movement. If a fat person wants to go to a club where everyone is thin, and they get ridiculed for it, the thin people are in the wrong. If a thin person wants to go to a club where everyone is fat, and they get ridiculed for it, the thin people are still in the wrong.
Seriously. I used to be obese. Now I’m not. I hated being obese. I enjoy being thin.
I would never say crap to a person who is fat about them being fat. I don’t care if someone else is fat or thin. Society SHOULD accept people of all sizes. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t like the push for weight loss as it’s being shown in pupular media either. It’s stifling. I was tormented in high school by teachers for being fat. In elementary school, I had no friends who wouldn’t call me fat. NONE. That totally SUCKS. That should not happen. Nobody should be ridiculed for how they look.
So the idea that I would be considered an enemy of the fat acceptance movement because I preffer my size 8 body to my old size 16 body really pisses me off. I’m not “thin” by any means. I’m not a super model, but I’m too “skinny” to understand the plight of the fat community.
Where do people like me fit in?
This conversation really opened my eyes to the fat acceptance movement. If a fat person wants to go to a club where everyone is thin, and they get ridiculed for it, the thin people are in the wrong. If a thin person wants to go to a club where everyone is fat, and they get ridiculed for it, the thin people are still in the wrong.
I don’t think this is a fair analogy. The first part, sure. But the second part: it’s more like if someone opened a club for fat people, where they were for once allowed to love their bodies just as they are, and revel in them, and be around other people who felt the same. Think what a positive, happy environment that would be in a world where they were continually told them they HAD to be smaller, at any cost, and continually beat them about the head for being lazy and stupid and disgusting. (I’m sure you can identify with that feeling — you said yourself that you know what this society does to fat people.)
Then a person comes in and talks about dieting and weight loss and how she wants to be thinner, and brings all that body hatred back into the one space that was meant to be free of it — when there are a million other places she could have that conversation with people who would be happy to have it with her. Do you see how that is harmful to the fat people there? (NB: I am NOT saying BFD is that club, at all, I’m just responding to your analogy.)
So the idea that I would be considered an enemy of the fat acceptance movement because I preffer my size 8 body to my old size 16 body really pisses me off.
Not an “enemy” of. But not “part of”, either. IMO, it’s perfectly possible to be in favour of rights for fat people while simultaneously trying not to be one yourself (though there are people who would disagree with me about that). But to my mind you cannot be part of the fat acceptance movement while trying not to be fat yourself, because dieting to eradicate fat is the direct opposite of accepting it.
Where do people like me fit in?
That’s a question you need to answer for yourself, as do we all.
Who is getting “ridiculed” here?
So why is it we can’t accept the choices of others without making them ourselves? Should straight people not walk in pride parades with their friends?
As for who’s being ridiculed here, I’ve seen some really nasty comments towards PQ here. That really blows. How can people who strive towards social acceptance fly off the handle towards someone else because of their own personal choices? It’s not like she was telling everyone else to go on a diet. She said she was uncomfortable with her weight. Big freaking deal. Reading the comments here made me feel like no matter what choice I make, I’m going to be judged, when the fat acceptance movement is supposed to be promoting healthy body image and self love.
If I got that wrong, then I’m sorry. But I thought that people involved in fat acceptance were supposed to be more open towards personal choices and the idea that we should do what makes us comfortable, healthy and happy, regardless of weight.
It’s not like PQ is anorexic. She just works out regularly, and even eats junk food. Her “diet” wouldn’t work for me. Everyone is different. So while I’m definitely not gonna say “oh, all you have to do is diet and exercize and you’ll be thin!” I’m not going to say that losing weight is the most horrible thing in the world. Some people DON’T become horrible anorexic messes, or gain their weight back, or become miserable. Some people actually ARE happier when they lose weight.
So why is it we can’t accept the choices of others without making them ourselves? Should straight people not walk in pride parades with their friends?
This analogy doesn’t work either (and I’m not trying to pick on you, just challenging some misconceptions that are popping up here).
We aren’t talking about thin (=straight) people here. We are talking about weight loss dieting, i.e. people who have consciously rejected the idea that them being fat is okay, and are deliberately trying to diet and exercise their fat away. (And clearly we disagree on the likelihood of their success in doing that, but that’s a whole other conversation.) A closer analogy would be someone who has gone to one of those gay conversion camps walking in the parade with their friends — when they’ve made a decision that being gay might be all right for some people, but not for them, and done what they can to “fix” their sexuality. Can you see how the friends they’re walking with might question how real their support is in that case?
As for who’s being ridiculed here, I’ve seen some really nasty comments towards PQ here.
That’s weird, because I haven’t. I’ve seen what ilookgoodblog insightfully called “[not] tearing down the memoirist personally but tackling the societal baggage that is, by default, attached to a successful weight loss story”. I’ve seen a lot of questioning of the message she’s promoting, the effect it has on others and the motives behind it. But no attacks on her as a person. And I think characterising critical thinking as “flying off the handle” is unhelpful to productive discussion.
Reading the comments here made me feel like no matter what choice I make, I’m going to be judged
That’s a fair comment, and I’m not sure what the solution is. But this:
the fat acceptance movement is supposed to be promoting healthy body image and self love.
No. The fat acceptance moving is about accepting fat. You cannot, again, be accepting fat and simultaneously dieting to eradicate it (as I believe The Rotund put it). Healthy body image and self love all the way, but let’s not redefine the fat acceptance movement til it’s diluted beyond all usefulness.
And to the last bit: I don’t know what is with the continual assumption that we care about or are judging what PQ eats or how she exercises or anything like that. What I care about is that a) she dismissed a movement I am a part of based on what I feel is an inaccurate and misleading characterisation of what we’re about and b) she did so, and promoted a hahafatpants book, in a post where people in that movement were bound to see it. I also care a lot about the misconceptions regarding dieting and (what I see as) its relation to fat acceptance, and the simple fat hatred being displayed by some commenters here, and that is why I’m still here addressing them. What PQ did/does/doesn’t eat on a day-to-day basis is her business, and really, nothing to me.
I disagree that anyone was nasty to or ridiculed PastaQueen. But I did try to address some of your other questions (in my case I explained why I think it is OK for individuals to diet but why I still have a problem with some of what PQ said) in a previous comment upthread if you are interested. (I mean, I was not responding to you specifically but others also had some of the same concerns.)
Sorry, that was to Nina… I missed Caitlin’s comment in between ours. She said it better than me anyway. :)
Hm – my comments are getting lost or something. Well, Caitlin covered it well anyway. Caitlin I think it’s really really cool that you’re a geneticist.
Caitlin, you rock.
She totally does, O.C. Without a single angry or insulting word, she just…laid flat all the objections. With cold hard fact, too :)
Nina you could start by using “fat” instead of “obese.” And I’m pretty sure this has been stressed, but no one objects to someone being thin. Pimping diets and using anti-FA language to do it is another matter. But this has all been gone over.
Rachel, FWIW,I just realized it wasn’t just implied, but pretty specific in your post that it wasn’t “fairness” being asked for. It was in particular not to offend PQ or MoPie. (not easy to insult someone with a cool name like MoPie though.) Since the FA advocates were the only ones who c9ould be imagined to be insulting either (though they weren’t) and all the pro-diet stance folks were praising both of them and the interview to high heaven, the clear result was, “Shut up and learn your place, and don’t be so *radical* FA people. Just learn to go to the back of the bus and be quiet if it bugs you; trust us, there’s reason for it and it’s not your place to question why. I’ve earned the respect and you needn’t wonder how.)
Strange message.
Read the interview – then read the comment thread. And I see what’s missing:
Respect. We’re all individuals. What works for one person doesn’t necessarily work for the other person.
I’m fat. So what? You’re thin. So what? We’re all different, and I see no problem with that.
We need to get over the prejudices that develop when we analyze WHY people are fat or thin. We need to judge people as individuals, not groups.
Not all fat people are pigs who don’t exercise. Not all thin people are gym nuts who don’t eat. We need to break down these stereotypes and work on loving ourselves – then maybe we can begin to like and accept others.
Pasta Queen did what she felt was right for her situation. I respect that. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s a personal attack against me or the fat acceptance movement in general. Using her interview to attack fat people (as one person has done here) is also a bad move. I doubt she meant for her interview to do such a thing. Those attacks are uncalled for and accomplish nothing positive.
Some people have disagreed with the article, but I don’t see why it had to be done with such negativity.
Now, a little bit about me. By BMI standards, I’m morbidly obese. I’ve struggled with my weight since at least second grade. I have tried to lose weight many times, without success. Simply cutting back on food did not solve my addiction to food, which was emotional.
I will continue to try and lose weight. I don’t like the way I am treated by others. Society is never going to change for me. It’s a sad fact. I’m a nice and quiet person who wants to live a normal life without interference. I can’t do this at my size, because too many people think they have the right to butt in and tell me how to run things.
I personally don’t understand why there is such a hatred against fat people. I have never expressed hatred for a person based on their physical appearance, and I’m still quite shocked when others do.
I even hate my fat. But I was trained to do so. Others enforce this hatred on a daily basis. I can’t get over it.
But you know what? When I’m out in public, minding my own business and following the laws, I don’t expect to get harassed because of my size. I hope to be treated with the basic dignity and respect I treat others with. I’m not asking society to change for me or bend over backwards to accommodate my wide behind, OK? Because that is what it comes down to – treating fat people like normal human beings. Many simply don’t want to, even though I would fight for your right to be respected and represented by the law.
And for those who are questioning the “fat girl on a bike” and her health habits – she did a whole post on that:
http://kateharding.net/2007/10/22/guest-blogger-sarah-why-the-fat-girl-on-a-bike-blog-is-going-on-hiatus/
No. The fat acceptance moving is about accepting fat. You cannot, again, be accepting fat and simultaneously dieting to eradicate it (as I believe The Rotund put it). Healthy body image and self love all the way, but let’s not redefine the fat acceptance movement til it’s diluted beyond all usefulness.
So.. what you’re saying is that, one has to accept their own fat as well as other people being fat to be in on fat acceptance. I don’t think that works. Some people aren’t comfortable being fat. I wasn’t. I thought it sucked. I didn’t like the feeling of having fat on me. I’m perfectly fine with other people choosing otherwise though, and I don’t think they should be ridiculed for it.. but it’s not for me.
This kinda reminds me of religious debates.
As for dieting not working, I’d have to disagree. It -can- work, if the person really wants it to, has the means, and works hard to do it. I was overweight my entire life until the age of 20, and then lost 60lbs. None if it has come back. So.. not everyone fails at dieting. It’s a lifestyle choice, and if people in the fat acceptance movement want their choices to be respected, then shouldn’t everyone else’s (so long as they’re healthy) choices be respected?
“So.. what you’re saying is that, one has to accept their own fat as well as other people being fat to be in on fat acceptance.”
Actually, I think this is the very real issue that the community is grappling with and that is raised by active dieters who wish to take part in the movement.
I think many would say yes, you have to accept your own fat in order to be part of the fat acceptance community. And at least in part, I think that might come from a feeling of – if you don’t accept your own fat, I can’t really believe that you accept mine. Assuming that your body’s natural setpoint was heavier – I don’t know that for sure, but if in order to keep those 60 lbs off, your “lifestyle change” involves continuing to restrict calories and exercise for the purpose of weight loss for the rest of your life, it likely was higher and you must now combat that for your whole life — you must have believed your body was not OK if it was fat, even if it was supposed to be fat. How, then, can I ever feel comfortable that you truly believe mine is OK?
Others might feel that fat acceptance is more closely mapped onto the idea of body autonomy; you can accept your fat, you can work to change it -but it is your own choice, and no one else’s. In the way that many women are comfortable upholding reproductive rights, this feeling might ask why we can’t fight for a right to value our bodies and do with them as we please. (Interestingly, I think the bloggers who more specifically focus on fat and feminism are more likely to make comments in keeping with the above.) In this view, how is a diet different than a piercing or tattoo? Or, at least, other perceived harmful behavior that we might not pass such strict judgment on: smoking, drinking alcohol in large quantities, certain drug use and abuse. As the BFD quote sometimes says – enjoy being fat or unfat, everyone – and the key is enjoy.
You’ll find folks with thoughts all over the spectrum. But I don’t think the first stance – that you have to accept your body’s own tendencies, no matter what those are, in order to be trusted that you can accept the tendencies of the bodies of others, and to really perceive what the fat acceptance fight is about – is unreasonable.
I just wanted to drop a note of thanks to Mopie for publishing this link and letting the discussion roll, and to everyone who has left though-provoking and insightful comments. I’ve been somewhat overweight for as long as I can remember, and it’s only recently that I’ve had the self-possession to get off the diet/weightloss treadmill and learn to eat, exercise, and LIVE for the purpose of enjoying my life rather than to make myself thinner so that I can enjoy my life when I meet society’s standard of worthiness.
I’ve been reading a few FA-related blogs in that time, but it’s been this discussion that’s really hit home with me, exposing some underlying prejudices and societal trends that I didn’t necessarily realize before and helping me examine my own thoughts and feelings on the subject more closely. I feel like it’s helped me understand the FA movement and the nuances and debates therein better and more objectively than I did before.
So again, Thank You! to Mo, Annie, Caitlin, and many others.
I agree with some of what Pasta Queen has to say. I used to read her blog and link to her back in my days of dieting blogging.
When I changed my goals from dieting to eating intuitively and body acceptance, I found many of my readers couldn’t relate – and some were extremely negative. Most said they couldn’t ever try Intuitive Eating because they “couldn’t trust” themselves…
It got to a point where I abandoned my diet blog. I couldn’t be part of an atmosphere that was TOXIC to me anymore. So many diet bloggers do nothing but beat themselves up over the pounds they don’t lose or the pounds they regain.
I’m always happy for that rare individual who loses weight, feels good and keeps it off… but I think one of the major reasons this is SO rare is that without body acceptance, any weight lost is lost in a vacuum. If you can’t love yourself fat, the odds are incredibly high that you won’t love yourself thin.
I have a serious, nearly life long eating disorder. Dieting made this so much worse, and only resulting in my gaining more weight – which made me feel like an utter failure at everything.
I get what she means with this statement about her book, “but the deeper message is that you can shape your life into whatever you want it to be. You can lose a ton of weight, find a better job, get out of a bad relationship, start a salt-water taffy stand – whatever you want to do, you can do it!”
BUT – I think that’s incredibly oversimplified. Some people simply cannot lose a ton of weight. She talks about accepting your body while trying to change it, but for many of us struggling with an eating disorder, that’s incredibly difficult, if not impossible – and I am not limiting myself to binge eating/bulimia here. For anorexics, too, this is a challenge.
I think the focus on feeling healthy is a good one, but for many focusing on weight is just too dangerous a game to play… which is why for me, I don’t blog about size acceptance or fat acceptance. I blog with an aim towards body acceptance for EVERY ONE.
I don’t think anyone should feel like crap about their bodies. It sucks that we live in a world where the “ideal” is so completely unrealistic that very, very few can ever achieve it – and even fewer without “help” of some sort.
I do have to say, though, that fat people are not treated the way thin people are. This is simply a fact. I lived in NYC for years and was treated like a freak. I now live in Colorado and as long as I stay out of Denver, most people treat me like a human being instead of some sort of contaminated fat spreading machine. Why? Because in general, Coloradans focus on health and not on appearance, whereas in NYC, it’s all about how small can you get and how beautiful can you make yourself. So I think that while many in CO would still tell a reporter if asked that I look “unhealthy,” they aren’t threatened by my fat.
A lot of former fat people I’ve known have adopted this “holier-than-thou” attitude towards people who are still fat. And that, Jennette, is probably why people in the FA movement are sometimes hostile towards you. I’m not saying it’s fair or right… just something that’s true.
I approve of much of what people in the FA or size acceptance movement are trying to do. Hatred based simply on what someone looks like is unfair… but I do think it’s a two way street, and we can’t judge thin people just because they are thin. However, I do think that when dealing with unhealthy lifestyles to force oneself to be a certain size, this is valid conversation because it ties back into loving yourself no matter what you look like.
But I don’t think the first stance – that you have to accept your body’s own tendencies, no matter what those are, in order to be trusted that you can accept the tendencies of the bodies of others, and to really perceive what the fat acceptance fight is about – is unreasonable.
But what if our bodies have been trained differently due to socity and upbringing? I’m a Native American, and lots of Native Americans are suffering from diabetes due to a diet change that has basically been forced on to most of the US due to the cost of fresh food. The idea that I’m “restricting” myself by not eating cookies or ice cream or anything with sugar in it isn’t so much a restriction as a dietary difference between my body and other people’s. I know that sugar makes me sick. It also makes me gain weight. I have a very tiny bone structure, and being overweight puts stress on my joints. So why -wouldn’t- I preffer to be thin?
At the same time, I believe that all people should be treated equally. But from what I’m hearing, since I don’t accept the fat that comes to me from eating processed food and refined sugar, I’m not accepting my body’s “own tendancies” to be naturally overweight? I don’t think so. Most of the food that causes people to be severely overweight is processed junk food that has snuck into our lifestyles because it’s cheap. This is by no means “normal” or “healthy”.
At the same time, eating healthy doesn’t automatically mean you’re thin. I’m just saying, a lot of people who are severely overweight could benefit from some restriction. I know I did. I was drinking soda every day, and there’s absolutely nothing healthy about that.
I second what Annie said about her objections to Rachel’s post upthread. It was very clearly aimed at the FA folk, who were if anything the ones being attacked. That made it somewhat less than useful as an even-handed moderation of discussion.
Hey Nina, I just wanted to say thanks for taking in what I’ve offered in response to your comments, even though we don’t agree. I can assure you I’ve done the same, and it makes a change from a few of the conversations I’ve had here.
As for dieting not working, I’d have to disagree. It -can- work, if the person really wants it to, has the means, and works hard to do it.
I know you don’t mean anything negative by this, but I’d invite you to think about what this says to people who have been dieting their entire lives and have only ended up fatter (and there are more than a few of them reading this thread). You think they didn’t really want it? Or that they didn’t work hard? Most fat people have incredible willpower (see: the often batshit crazy diets they maintain for weeks or months at a time), and they want to be thin so much they’d do anything to achieve it.
Diets just don’t work. Fat Fu looked at the .Weight Watchers official success numbers — the ones they quietly release themselves when no one’s looking — and found that only 2 in 1000 people using their programme sustain their weight loss — and that’s the one considered effective enough that in some places you can get it on prescription!
If you’ve kept the weight off for five years, congratulations on being one of that 2-5%. But offering yourself as an exception doesn’t change the overwhelming failure rate. No car or drug, for example, would ever be allowed to stay in production with such a low rate of success, and such extensive side effects. People wouldn’t be going around saying “Oh, you mustn’t have changed the oil” or “You must have forgotten to take it at the exact right time” (or “It must have been the cough drops”); we’d accept something was wrong with the product itself, and we would stop using it.
So.. what you’re saying is that, one has to accept their own fat as well as other people being fat to be in on fat acceptance.
That is, as mccn said, pretty much what we’re debating the hell out of just now.
I’m perfectly fine with other people choosing otherwise though, and I don’t think they should be ridiculed for it.. but it’s not for me.
And that’s entirely your choice. But it might well mean the fat acceptance movement isn’t for you either.
This kinda reminds me of religious debates.
Wow, I hear that. No one’s told me I’m going to hell so far this time though, which is a delightful change. ;)
mccn, I think the issues you raised about body autonomy in relation to dieting in relation to fat acceptance are well worth considering. For the record, I am very strongly in favour of both reproductive choice and body autonomy. Whatever you (generic you) do with your own body is very much your own business. However, the political stance of FA (as The Rotund put it) is anti-dieting, because a) sing it with me if you know the words: it’s the opposite of accepting fat and b) it’s harmful and it doesn’t work. That doesn’t mean we don’t have compassion for individual people who can’t take the way this society treats fat people anymore and keep dieting in an attempt not be one of them. It does mean that they can’t expect that choice to be supported and encouraged by the one movement (I’m aware of) that is opposed to dieting for weight loss.
Caitlin I think it’s really really cool that you’re a geneticist.
Heh. Thanks. I do too, when I’m not in exam/dissertation hell for it. Then it’s kind of shit.
Pasta Queen-
You = AWESOME!
That’s pretty much the best thing I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading regarding body acceptance. I used to go to LOTS of ‘fat acceptance’ blogs, but I don’t so much anymore, because so many seem militantly against losing weight and thin people in general. If more people had great attitudes like yours, the world would be a much happier place.
Thanks again for a great read!
I’m not much a fan of the Weight Watchers thing, myself. Or most diets out there. Hardly any of them make sense, but I guess what I do isn’t so much a “diet” anymore. It’s just how I eat.
I know you don’t mean anything negative by this, but I’d invite you to think about what this says to people who have been dieting their entire lives and have only ended up fatter (and there are more than a few of them reading this thread). You think they didn’t really want it? Or that they didn’t work hard?
Noooo no way am I saying that. I also included “has the means”. Personally, I tried dieting with no success earlier, but when I found out what worked for me, I kept up with it. I know there’s a lot of people who either have not found what works for them, or just don’t have anything that will work for them as far as eating/exercizing does. I went through the same debate on a bodybuilder forum, a while back. Imagine arguing to a bunch of body builders that not EVERYONE can simply “eat right and work out” and end up skinny.
I suppose the fat acceptance thing is something that strikes a nerve with me because most of my childhood was defined by my weight, and I’d like to be able to help make it so that doesn’t happen to other kids and adults, but damned if I’m going to risk diabetes by doing that.
Teh diebeetus? Oh my. Nina, most fat people didn’t get fat by shoveling down sweets. If you did, and cutting them out caused you to lose weight, good. As Caitlin points out, for the vast majority of fat people dieting. doesn’t. work. That doesn’t mean WW or Jenny Craig but anything that includes restricting caloric intake in order to lose weight. There is no known reliable, safe way to make fat people permanently thin – whether they’re rich or determined or make lifestyle changes or anything else in their favor. There isn’t. You are an exception, and that’s very nice for you. For most people who are fat, it doesn’t matter how bad they want it or how hard they work – they might lose 20 or 30 lbs and keep it off (setpoints) but significant, permanent, safe weight loss? Almost zero. Statistically insignificant. Rare. To state that because you and a couple others did so (with PQ it of course remains to be seen since she’s still in the losing curve and not on maintenance for over 5 years) that others can, that if they don’t they’re “choosing” to live with their fat – well, that’s offensive. And it’s not true. Many have done it all, been down that road as far as it would take them and then some, to finally figure out “Well, I don’t love being fat, but this is my body; now how can I learn to live with it and accept it, since I’m not going to be issued another one?”
Some of you are missing the point. Especially you Nikki and Nina.
FA advocates do not hate thin people. They hate:
-That being thin is touted as the only way to be considered healthy.
-That being thin is the only way to be considered attractive.
-That being thin is the only way to be an acceptable part of society.
-That eating balanced meals and exercising should be done not for just weight loss, but because that’s what people just want to do.
-That all fat people are lumped into one homogenous group and automatically dismissed as constantly eating lazy blobs of lard. Not all fat people get fat because they can’t put down the fork.
-That fat is associated with bad morals.
-Fat people are now being blamed for most of society’s ills and are compared to terrorists.
-Fat causes every health problem under the sun: diabetes, stroke, heart disease, bad skin, body odor, arthritis, joint problems, headaches, backaches, gall bladder pain, etc.
-That society portrays weight loss as akin to sainthood, and most dieters expect to be treated like saints for losing weight. Sorry, but you don’t become a saint by dropping some pounds, and I sure ain’t treating you like some god/goddess because you diet.
Nina, you want to help kids? Then don’t become another fat hater. Don’t promote health by focusing on weight loss. DON’T SHAME PEOPLE INTO LOSING WEIGHT. It won’t happen.
To quote Nikki, if more people had attitudes like this, the world would be a better place.
Nikki, on what do you base that accusation that people in FA are “militantly against thin people in general”? I’ve never seen such a thing, and I’d like you to cite your source for such a comment.
Jennette Fulda, better known as PastaQueen, may have lost a couple hundred or so pounds, but she’s been a commenter on and visitor to Big Fat Deal for a long time.
Gotta love how an interview that’s supposed to mold size acceptance and weight loss, that’s the opening line. Sounds like you’re playing into the idea that people losing weight can’t be interested in size acceptance. Which is something I find incredibly offensive as someone who is doing just that.
Though I should add that as someone who is losing weight and participating in size acceptance, I truly enjoyed the interview. :)