Is The Chippendales Sketch Offensive?
In the comments to this post, a number of people brought up Chris Farley and the Chippendale’s skit he did with Patrick Swayze (we love you, Patrick) on Saturday Night Live. (Video is here.)
Bina said:
the joke in that was that the fat guy took his dancing and mad skillz seriously but was obviously never, ever going to make it in such a visually-oriented field. He was, ultimately, not to be appreciated but laughed at.
Crystal added:
I think it’s just another way that society reinforces the idea that it’s okay to laugh at fat people – men or women. The only difference is they laugh at women behind their back but it’s okay to laugh at a man to his face (whether it’s because he can “take it” or because fat men are “always” funny i.e. Jim Belushi, John Candy, Chris Farley)
It made me wonder: do you find this sketch offensive? I personally love Chris Farley; I’ve watched the “Best of Chris Farley” DVD many, many times. The Chippendale’s sketch has always been funny to me. I confess, I’ve never looked at it particularly critically.
I guess it can be seen as mean spirited, since the humor comes in part from the disparity between Patrick Swayze and Chris Farley, and the idea that they could both be serious contenders as dancers—that it is, in fact, difficult to choose between them. And there’s this underlying sadness because Chris Farley died way too young. (And now there is even more sadness with Patrick Swayze having cancer! Man.) But watching this sketch… Farley throws himself into the character with total commitment and just sells it.
Then there’s the larger issue of the “funny fat man” that Crystal brings up (for some reason, David Bowie’s song in Extras comes to mind. “Little fat man who sold his soul / Little fat man who sold his dream…”). Is she right? Is it more acceptable for us to laugh at fat men than fat women? Does this play into the fat-guy-with-thin-wife stereotype?
Let me know what you think. (However, we are not going to argue about Matt Foley, motivational speaker. That will always, always be funny.)
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I feel the Chippendale’s sketch makes fun of the absurdity that there is a career based on looks to that extent. It seemed like Chris Farley was having fun, and it was less of a joke on him than it was on Chippendales and pretty boys in general.
I always liked the joke Chris did about, “Or you could end up, living in a van, down by the river!”
I thought it was clearly a fat joke. Picture the same sketch with a conventionally pretty actor replacing Farley– not so funny any more, eh?
This is something I’ve been thinking about recently because I’m pregnant with my first child. So far it seems perfectly healthy, so I’ve been allowing myself to ‘wish’ for one sex over another sometimes, and I do worry about having an overweight daughter. Somehow I feel like an overweight son would have an easier go of it – he could be the jovial, chubby guy and would be accepted more easily. I don’t know, it’s ridiculous since there are so many other factors at play (he could be chubby and totally charmless, heh), but I do think about it. Sorry, slightly off topic but got me to thinking…
When I saw the original sketch I laughed at the dancing and not the size of Chris Farley. When you think about sitcoms and movies there has always been the obligatory fat guy that everybody makes fun of. Its one of the lamest roles in entertainment today, but not one I get bent out of shape about. I have no problem with the Chippendales skit.
@Jane:
I’m pregnant with my second child, and am having the same feelings. Our son, who is 8, is the spitting image of his father – tall and thin. I’ve always suspected that if we have a girl, she’ll be short and fat, like me. There’s no way to know, obviously, but I worry so much about having fat kids. I know that it would be just another opportunity to teach them about body image/media, etc., like we do with our son. But then I worry about doctors, officials, etc. who would assume the worst. I know how to feed my kids – my son still chooses spinach or fruit over chips and ice cream usually. Not always, but enough. I would just hate for my kids to have to go through the same painful childhood that I had. We shouldn’t have to worry about these issues. Kids deserve to grow up and be happy, not mercilessly made fun of or told that there is something wrong with them. It makes me very, very sad for kids who are “different.” I hope I live to see the day when people are accepted for who they are.
I always thought of that sketch as making fun of the Chippendale’s stereotype, not making fun of Chris Farley’s fat. Its funny because he intimidates Patrick’s character.
Everytime I see it, I think “Dude’s got it going on”
Personally, I always thought the Chippendale’s sketch was less about Farley being fat and more about him being as near-perfect an opposite to Swayze in all ways – size, natural unprimped appearance, dancing ability – and yet an almost equally impressive rival. You could put another non-conventionally-attractive but non-fat actor in the same sketch in Farley’s place and still get the joke.
That’s just as funny as I remembered, but there’s no doubt that it’s a fat joke. It’s not mean spirited, though. Farley’s clearly the better dancer. He just doesn’t have the kind of body that Chippendales would want.
It didn’t offend me the first time I saw it, I also think it makes fun of the Chippendales themselves, not fat. I think the sketch would still work if you had a very thin guy next to Patrick Swayze too.
Ehh. I always laughed at the fat jokes in Tommy Boy, because I always felt like Tommy was laughing right along with me. (Fat guy in a little coat! heh). But this made me uncomfortable because it feels like a big part of the joke is: “The fat guy thinks he’s sexy! The fat guy thinks people would actually want to look at him naked! How hilariously ridiculous of him!”
For me, the key to that sketch was always in the reactions of the judges and Patrick Swayze’s character “Adrian.” No one’s laughing at Barney (the Farley character). The judges are taking his audition very seriously and Adrian is obviously worried about his mad skillz (he even steps it up when he sees what Barney’s giving them). When it comes down to it, the judges find Barney’s dancing “sexy” but he just doesn’t fit the mold and I think the judges are a bit disappointed.
If anything, it could be considered a commentary on society’s pre-set standards of what is “sexy” — right down to the names.
In any case, I always found it funny & never offensive. Except for maybe Swayze’s hair…
I resonate with the mothers’ worries in this thread, and all I have to offer is that whatever they look like, someone will tease kids. I was skinny as a kid (got fat at puberty) and I was teased for either needing glasses (four eyes!)or having red hair. My eldest is teased for being stupid, despite being a grade ahead in math and being the second best speller in his grade: so it’s not even rational. The best thing is just to make sure they know they’re loved and that teasing is a flaw in the teaser, and doesn’t mean anything is wrong with them.
I always thought it was making fun of Chippendales, not Farley. Besides, as many have pointed out, he’s the better dancer. And, I’d like to add, Swayze, Farley and the rest all seem particularly emotionally vulnerable regardless of size – I liked that bit, too.
wow- I have always thought this skit was not only hilarious but a pointed “remark” that the best isn’t always the stereotype! Why do people find it offensive> the idea is that he doesn’t fit the mold but Patrick does and is totally intimidated by the better dancer. If instead of fat, would people be offended if the better dancer was 95? Gah! Not everything is done to make fat people feel bad.
Ahhhh Mr. Farley. Can’t say ever a big fan of his but not because he wasn’t good at what he did. Some of his work was exceptionally funny. The Chicago Bulls Fan, the Overwrought Father sketch, most of the work he did with David Spade, and his physical comedy was up there with likes of Chevy Chase. Nobody could do a pratfall like Farley. Especially anyone his size. Unfortunately, for me that was also part of my problem with him. Most of his comedy seemed to involve some sort of self inflicted pain. ‘Look! The Fat Slob hurt himself again! Ha-Ha!’. No matter what he did I always seemed to get the impression that, for him, it was more about winning approval than becoming a big, Hollywood, Star. He reminded me of the fat kid on the playground who would do ANYTHING to be accepted. The kind of kid that an adult with even a modicum of empathy might want to reach out to in an effort to get him to stop and help him realize that he has SOME self worth. That acceptance is not the end-all or be-all of life and that those who pursue it too vigorously or in exclusion of everything else usually end up paying for it. And for me that’s also what made his life so tragic. Oh, I’m SURE most people FELT badly about what ultimately happened to him but did anyone really think about HOW? Did anyone really think about the possibility that either no one did or no one could convince a young Chris Farley that he was worth more than a few fleeting moments of amusement. Probably very few. So the ‘Fat Slob’ ends up killing himself. But what’s ‘Comedy’ without a little ‘Tragedy’, right? ‘Ha-ha’.
As to your question, is it more acceptable to laugh at fat men than fat women–I think it is more common for fat men to laugh at themselves, and to appear not to be embarrassed by their weight – and Farley is a great example. So it would seem to be less socially rude to crack a fat joke to a fat man – let’s say a friend. It “seems” more common for fat women to be ashamed and embarrassed by their size, so again, it would be more mean spirited to crack a joke about it.
Why is this? Maybe because men aren’t supposed to show their emotions. Maybe because in women, smallness is idealized. We all know the crap we have to contend with.
I remember that skit vividly. I remember thinking how well Farley moved, and with such energy. I remember thinking a fat guy wasn’t supposed to be able to do that.
When I subscribed to Interview magazine years ago, I remember a serious interview with Farley. The interviewer asked what he looked for in a woman. I recall the answer was written (Q&A style) like this:
Farley: (without cracking a smile) Willingness.
It broke my heart a little, that.
Er, and if Farley was the better dancer, it was because Swayze was holding back for the sake of the skit. Patrick Swayze is a great dancer. At one point, he had offers from several major metropolitan ballets.
I don’t really know what to make of that skit, but I don’t see it as written for the wrong reasons.
I do, however, absolutely think it’s more acceptable to laugh at a fat guy than it is to laugh at a fat woman. The reasoning here being that, well, men tend to give the impression that they are less concerned about being fat. There’s that whole idea that if you laugh at a fat woman she’s going to think you’re laughing at her for being fat- not for being funny. Whereas if you laugh at a guy, there’s definitely a mentality that they’re not so concerned with their weight that they’re going to take it personally.
I have to agree with Elizabeth and Eden on this one. I have always loved this sketch. my loves go out to the swayze. I have always thought the humor comes from the fact that swayze (a trained dancer) is so intimidated by Farley. I think it says something about society, because in that little nugget of comedy, the tables were turned and the fat man was much sexier and intimidating than the typical “sexy” guy.
It’s been remarked on for years – although it seems not loudly or publicly enough – the public just LOVES a fat man but cannot seem to regard a fat woman as someone to be taken seriously.
Think of all the photos of portly CEOs or statesmen (Henry Kissinger was no sylph, even in his salad says) and even more of the performers: the lethal Sydney Greenstreet, or the comic Eugene Pallette; television’s Raymond Burr or Alfred Hitchcock and now “L&O” star Vincent D’Onofrio who seems to have morphed into a Burr-lookalike (not a bad thing).
Think Pavarotti or any number of other actors, singers, musicians, comics: can anyone ever forget Jackie Gleason, the self-proclaimed Great One? People may have mentioned that these gents had some excess girth, but it was never the career-threatening thing it’s made out to be for women. If you go far enough back in h istory, the larger the man (Henry VIII), the greater the power he possessed in the world.
So, yes, it surely must be easier to be a big guy in our world, and Farley was one of the funnier examples of the breed. The Chippendale’s sketch? A funny piece of material to be sure.
I am so hungry for media images of fat people being active that I enjoy watching the skit. However, I do think that part of the point of the skit is to make fun of the fat guy who dares to think that people want to see his chest. (Yeah, part of it is about the overseriousness, too.) So it hurts me a bit to watch it.
I really wish there were more images of fat people being active. I end up watching a lot of champion dog shows just because some of the handlers are fat.
I agree that part of the joke is that Farley is fat, but I don’t think that every joke that relies on the concept of “fat” is necessarily at the expense of the fat guy. What’s funny about it is that it actually makes people think about something they unconsciously take for granted (the muscular guy will be a better dancer than the fat guy). It confronts an assumption that would otherwise go unchallenged, which creates a reaction in the form of a laugh. I don’t think we have to assume that the laugh is AT the fat guy or that the joke is ON him. It does rely on the presence all those negative stereotypes in our society, but instead of backing them up, it tears them down a little bit.
As for the whole funny fat guy vs. not-funny fat girl thing, I think that says a lot about the ongoing sexism in the entertainment industry and elsewhere. There aren’t just more fat male comedians than fat women, there are more male comedians, period.
Whoops. Should be,
“There aren’t just more fat male comedians than fat women COMEDIANS, there are more male comedians, period.”
Is it more acceptable for us to laugh at fat men than fat women?
I find it’s always been more socially acceptable to openly laugh at men than women because we’re socialized to believe that women are delicate, fragile dainty things that will snap under anything that could… well, snap a woman’s fragile little brain.
With men, making fun of them is the method of masculine socialization – shaming men into becoming men and growing up.
But really, the initial quotes from Bina and Crystal nailed it.
First of all, to Ten: Men and women respond to things differently because they are DIFFERENT. Sorry to start off politically incorrect, but not making fun of women is more of a matter of respect and decency, not about protecting a woman’s “fragile little brain.” Secondly, I always loved the Chippendale’s sketch because it showed that big men can be sexy and move as well as “thin” men. So, I approve.
I always thought that skit had an inherent sweetness to it–that they really were giving each of them a fair shot, and not just seeing the outside. Of course, that may be my idealism showing through–it was a sad day when I realized that when my mom said: “all that matters is what is on the inside.” She was not really telling me the truth. So, I like the skit because I am rooting for Farley’s character and the fact that he completely goes for it with zero inhibition.
I think you could put any Average Joe next to Patrick Swayze, ask them both to dance, and watch the hilarity ensue. Swayze is a trained professional when it comes to dancing and being “sexy.”
“First of all, to Ten: Men and women respond to things differently because they are DIFFERENT.”
That’s right! Men have a penis!
“not making fun of women is more of a matter of respect and decency”
How about some respect and decency for men too? I apologize for being politically correct, but I believe we’re all human and deserving of proper treatment.
I didn’t see the ending of it, but I personally liked it, and didn’t find it offensive to me, in the privacy of my own living room, watching it with my own fattie-fat sensibilities. It actually shows a really cool kind of world, and a lot of the humor is because people understand how far away the whole set-up is from the world we actually live in. (We can safely bet that most people are glad that the world of flesh jiggles is that far away, but not everyone.) I thought the earnest looks of the auditioners, combined with the seriously stressed-out sideways looks of Swayze watching Farley bust a move, set it off in a different universe almost. Actually, it’s the Big Moves universe.
In Big Moves, it’s assumed that people of all sizes–fatties and fatlets alike–can and should be performing together, and can work the fabulous regardless, it’s difficult for me to remember sometimes that the outside world doesn’t look at us the same way. So, us going to a mainstream showcase without any audience development or preparation around size diversity, etc., has occasionally been jarring. In the same way, watching this clip and realizing that the millions of SNL viewers would think this was funny, that feels shocking, like I’m dancing along in this rose-colored mist of fattie love, tra la la, and then the mist blows away and the enormous chasm between us and the rest of the world is gaping open at my feet.
In a meta-sense, not offensive. It just needs to be viewed outside of its cultural context. In a practical sense, in a _cynical_ sense, offensive a little. The writers knew at least some of the buttons they would be pushing for their viewers, and they were working it. But then, that’s a lot of mainstream comedy for you.
If there was a poll, I’d vote for funny and not offensive. But I’m a fan of silent comedy and vaudeville and this fits right into that tall/short, fat/thin world of immediate visual juxtaposition to grab your attention.
There’s a million ways a sketch like this could have gone and been extremely offensive, but the reason it’s a classic is because they didn’t go down those obvious “lets just mock fat” paths.
I’d say before fat even enters the equation a male comedian has it easier than a female comedian. And don’t forget that the fat tv husbands aren’t just actors, a lot of the time they produce their shows, so I would assume they have some say in the matter of casting their tv wife.
I think in general it’s more common to see a bigger man with a smaller woman (height, weight, muscle, fat, whatever) so it’s not so surprising to see that reflected on TV.
It occurred to me that all comedy has a seed of cruelty in it, because laughing at people and situations typically involves re-assessing The Powerful. Isn’t a lot of comedy bringing someone or something down a notch?
I saw this skit again recently and had a lot of the same thoughts. It made me a little uncomfortable, but I loved seeing Farley dancing like that. He was very much an embodied comedian who used everything he had in a skit.
To answer your question, I believe society does put fat men in a position where they have to take on the fat jokes…they have to be okay with their bodies being an object of other people’s laughter. We are socialized differently, even about how to deal with our bodies/fat. I think this is problematic in many ways for men because they are taught it’s not supposed to bother them.
The skit…I think it can be taken as a simple fat joke or it can be taken as pushing the boundaries. When I see people posting dancing Chris Farley icons (from that scene) on their Myspace, I assume they are posting it as a fat joke, as I see people do with other photos of fat people. It’s supposed to be shocking. However, in that skit Farley does what fatties aren’t allowed to do on television…women or men, generally. I tend to agree with BigMovesBabe.
And I felt the same way recently when I saw a fat drag queen gyrating on stage. It was fat protest (and she certainly framed it that way). It’s sad that a fat woman wouldn’t be accepted if she gyrated that way on stage–accept, of course, in certain contexts. But in that context, a whole lot of people who probably have nothing to do with fat acceptance and who might otherwise gasp at a fat person daring to gyrate, cheered for her, loved her, and gave her money. And I think that makes a difference…in some way.
truebeauty,
Your post pretty much proves Ten’s point.