Hyacinth Hippo
Those of you out there who have seen Fantasia and who fondly remember the hippo ballet sequence might appreciate this rare glimpse into the history of Disney animation: photos of actress Hattie Noel, who was the live action reference for Hyacinth Hippo in the film. I don’t know much of the history, but I’m gathering that Hattie Noel’s contributions haven’t always been publicly acknowledged. The photos can be seen here and here, where many of the ancillary issues surrounding Disney politics and race are being discussed in the comments.
BFDude Matt, who sent along the links, says:
I know comparing a fat woman to a hippo can be misconstrued but I think it’s a positive piece. It’s great to see more old Disney reference made public (Disney has always been secretive about their process, to not ruin the “magic” of animation) and for Hattie to finally get credit… Always so wonderful to see a fat woman take center stage!
Cartoon Brew also linked to a video of Hattie jitterbugging (her entrance is at 3:47). So what is your response to all of this? Is it a part of Disney history that we should be proud of, or is it uncomfortably tinged with racism? Or both?
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Art, Fat Positive, Fatism, Movies, Question, Race & Ethnicity, Theater, Video
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Unfortunately, ALL of American history to date is tainted with racism, although it has gotten a little less insidious over the years. If we are to appreciate anything in history at all, we’re going to have to accept the fact that there’s that terribly ugly element lurking beneath the surface, or sometimes right out in the open for everyone to see.
I would like to clarify that remark– I don’t think we should accept racism. I definitely think we should call it what it is, and bring it to light.
It is a shame that Hattie’s contributions were not acknowledged, but as one commenter on one of those posts mentioned the 1940’s were still Jim Crow and many of the targeted audience for a Disney film would have been disenchanted by such knowledge. I am glad that we have made progress since those days, and a beautiful and talented woman can have recognition for her work, even if only in a small way. But we still have a long way to go.
To paraphrase: Those who do not know history are condemned to repeat it.
That it is tinged with racism is simply a fact of the era. That racism is bad is something we have come to accept and, I hope, embrace, as a society. Ignoring a piece of history, any piece of history, is saying that what happened there was neither good enough to be proud of, nor bad enough to make sure it never happens again. Trying to make a bad thing just go away denies that it could happen and denies that it did happen.
We should hold it up, be proud that there were black people and fat people involved in creating and shaping an iconic piece of our culture, and also use it as a reminder to make absolutely sure she gets credited next time.
“Unfortunately, ALL of American history to date is tainted with racism, although it has gotten a little less insidious over the years.”
IMO not less insidious.
Just less obvious.
Therefore harder to prove (especially in court, where it matters if one were to receive any financial redress for discriminatory denial of opportunities. One doesn’t receive redress for social exclusion, although everyone knows, to quote Melanie Griffith’s Tess in “Working Girl”, that “fringe times are crucial”).
What I’d really like to know is whether
1) Ms. Noel received any residuals under SAG or AFTRA when she was alive
2) her heirs receive anything pursuant to whatever the unions’ collective bargaining agreements provide for members’ estates.
That ought to provide additional probative evidence one way or the other.
Just curious, Mo —
what made you start there today anyway?
I think insidious was the wrong word, not the word I was looking for at all.
Then again, I’m going to decline to comment further on the state of racism in the United States, because I’ll be honest, I don’t really know. I would like to think it has gotten much much much better, but I suppose in many ways it isn’t better, just manifesting itself in different ways.
What a marvelous piece of movie history! Not just the “Fantasia”-prep stills, but that fabulous video from “Irene” – they just don’t make ’em like that anymore, and more’s the pity I say.
Take a look at the video: there’s a really big sister dancing her ass off center stage, taking a back seat to no one, just tearing up the joint. Then look at the stills; she’s obviously being directed by the artists to give them the sense of movement they want for the character. Dozens of actors have, over the decades, served as models for animated characters, both bi-and multi-peds, and it’s rare to know their names or what they really looked like.
So – lay off the pc bs & take this at face value as a great footnote moment in Hollywood’s hysterical history. If you can’t do that, well, maybe you just need to go to the movies more often.
I personally don’t see anything racist about this piece. The animators obviously wanted a live dancer to reference while drawing Hyacinth – probably to get the ballet moves right – and Hattie Noel fit the bill. So what if she’s a black woman? What does that have to do with anything? Am I missing something?
Some of the people in the comments suggested that equating a black woman with an animal was inherently racist—I would guess, however, that the animators used live-action models of all races for their animal characters. So I didn’t really see any racism there—but there could be issues I’m not seeing.
The video of the audience laughing at Hattie’s performance looked like it could be taken two ways, though.
Her size is clearly being played for laughs in the Alice Blue Gown clip. Race, I don’t see issues– you’ve got the Dandridge sisters as the chorus on the balcony and a pretty multiracial group of dancers overall.
disney did use all models u have to fit the body tip that they wanted
i bet she got payed and they did not kid nap her dress her up have make her dance
if they did not use her because shes black that would be racist
I’m not sure it’s her size that’s being played for laughs, there – I think it’s actually the dress with the insane bustle. That sounds far-fetched, but the whole plot of “Irene,” the musical from which the clip rises, hinges on dressmaking.
She sure doesn’t look happy in the posed reference photos, though, which makes me wonder how much she was the butt of the Fantasia joke. (Fantasia is still hands-down my favorite Disney musical.) Of course, the ballet in Fantasia isn’t just hippos – ostriches, alligators and elephants are all played for laughs.
The issue I felt we were referring to is the fact that this particular piece of disney history- that a black model was used for the hippos, has been kept under wraps for a long time, whereas when a white model was used, they generally revealed who the model was. I for instance have known for years that live (white) models were used for Peter Pan, especially for tinkerbell.
I don’t know what to make of it but I do wanna say that I think she’s gorgeous :D
Yellowhammer, if I’m not mistaken, the effect to which you’re referring in your last comment is something the legal term for which (in circumstances, of course, where actual injury, and a link between the alleged perp’s behavior and the alleged injury, can be proven to a court’s satisfaction) is disparate impact.
*sigh*
I’m multiracial, and one of the races compounding my “multi” is white — there are others, but I try to assume nothing goes without saying — so I feel OK saying this to y’all well-meaning people.
Please start here:
http://books.google.com/books?id=l4gCH1bF5awC&pg=PA103&lpg=PA103&dq=%22a+black+person%22+%22a+white+person%22+constitutional+impact&source=web&ots=yLtQB4aclF&sig=hdnzafDgU28kgyxyzdFsUUjGZ3A&hl=en#PPA103,M1
at page 103.
(You may have to pump the magnifying glass twice, depending on screen size and/or visual acuity.)
If that doesn’t give you a little more context for why some folks might feel a touch squeegy about the program’s *ahem* presentation, Google “white privilege” and see what you come back with.
If you’re still having trouble after that, then the best I can do is suggest you be MUCH less exasperated the next time some gym rat lunkhead or size 00 person who never struggled with her weight squeaks/bellows at you:
“Weight loss and maintenance is all the same for all people! Just eat less and move more!”
*smh*
As many women have had to say to many men:
Just because YOU don’t see/feel/hear/otherwise witness something happening DOES NOT mean it isn’t happening.
And, Yellowhammer? If you think the situation is so much much much better now, please feel free to read the first five sentences of the comment I made prior to your making such a cheery statement.
‘Cause right now I’m feeling like that whistled right on by you and you didn’t even feel the breeze.
Revisiting your questions from the earlier comment, littlem, movies produced before 1960 aren’t required to pay residuals under the SAG agreement. According to their website, after the strike of March 1960, SAG accepted a lump payment with which it set up the health and pension plan as recompense for the residuals owed between 1948 and 1960.
Not that it applies for Ms. Noel’s posing for reference art for “Fantasia” anyway, because there was no direct performance, but for her performance in “Irene”, she wouldn’t have been eligible for residuals, since it came out in 1940. So neither she nor her heirs would be collecting residuals.
I would be saddened but completely unsurprised if she was paid less for her performance and rehearsal time in “Irene” than the white dancers of lesser caliber and lower screen time – black performers of that era, and women, were discriminated against quite blatantly in matters of pay. Even in the unlikely event that she and the other performers in the “Harlem” scene were fairly recompensed, there’s a lot of discomfiting subtext and stereotype in that scene. Do you feel “squeegy” about the Fantasia scenes, too? (They’re not hard to find at Youtube – search fantasia elephant ballet and you’ll get them.) It’s actually a surprisingly dignified piece, considering that it’s a bunch of dancing animals.