Flirting For Fat Girls
In the comments, Stacey Stardust asks: how do you know a guy is flirting with you?
This may sound like an incredibly dim-witted question, but I never got hit on a lot when I was a size 12-14 (my ’skinny time’ ;)) and I certainly don’t think I get hit on at all now. When a guy does pay attention to me, I tend to think he’s mocking me… It’s not that I haven’t been with men, because I have, but I’ve always made the first move (something I wouldn’t dare do anymore).
I’ve definitely had those moments where I felt as if I were being mocked, mostly in high school (and I think I was wrong a lot of the time when I assumed that a guy couldn’t possibly be interested in me) but I feel like past a certain age and outside a certain type of overtly assholish guy, it doesn’t really happen very much. Maybe I’m just naive, but I am a flirt, and I just tend to assume that everyone who expresses interest in me, means it. This may be self confidence, it may be ego, whatever.
My flirting tip is—well, for this to work, you need to be involved in conversation. So I guess the preface to this is to be unafraid to strike up conversations with absolutely anybody at any time. If you find yourself kind of feeling a vibe, casually touch the guy (or girl) you’re talking to and see if he (or she) returns the touch. If so, he/she is interested and you can slowly escalate the touching until your hand is in their pants.
But what do you guys think—what are the signs? What are the signals? How do you know when a flirty guy really means it? Let’s help Stacey get her groove back.
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Fat Positive, Fatism, Feminism, Personal, Question
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If you have to leave the conversation for any reason (ladies’ room, get a drink, etc.,) and the person asks you if you’re coming back, that’s a good sign.
And if a guy mentions he has a wife or girlfriend within the first couple minutes of conversation, it may be discouraging, but sometimes it means that he DOES feel a vibe but can’t act on it. For what it’s worth.
Oh! Flirting! I am so bad at this. Well, I’m not necessarily bad at flirting myself — most of my friendships with guys involve a lot of that harmless flirting that is apparently pretty natural to me. But I am teh suck at a) flirting when I intend to and b) knowing when someone is flirting with ME. I’m currently ensnared in a situation with someone I can’t pursue a relationship with due to some logistics but I go back and forth between “he means it!” and “he’s just being nice because he’s my friend!” We have a connection though, so I tend to lean more toward him meaning it when he sits across the table from me and just looks at me without saying a word.
I’m a big believer in connections: mental, physical, emotional, spiritual, and so on. I tend to trust my gut with people and tend to believe that a guy is flirting with me if I feel a connection between us. With my above example, I think we’re both pretty aware that we can’t have anything more than furtive glances and inside jokes but we definitely have a strong connection that is lacking in my other friendships with guys.
So, my advice to Stacey? Conversations are good, yes. Just remember to be as true to yourself as possible (I know it’s hard when a hot guy is sitting there giving you the eyes!). Smile, laugh…just be your awesome self! :)
In my experience there are different kinds of flirting. There is the fun, casual, friendly flirting that goes nowhere (but it still fun!) and there is flirting that is for the sake of getting somewhere with someone (which can be the frustrating kind). In my past it seemed I have had lots of situations that really looked (and not just from my p.o.v. but from outside parties) that it was going somewhere and turned out they just wanted “to be friends” and were flirting for fun. I finally had to accept the old adage “if he really is interested, he will pursue you”. I never used to believe it until I met my current boyfriend who told me up front “I like you, and I’d like to take you out sometime” and it was amazingly different and refreshing. Unfortunately it doesn’t work like that very often, but I also wonder what age of man Stacey is looking at. Because I had to find a man a few years into his 30’s for him to be anywhere near being upfront and honest about how he felt.
My overall feeling? Even if someone is mocking you (which if you’re dealing with adults is rare, they just don’t waste the time if they aren’t interested) then who the FUCK CARES?! they can mock you all they want over in their little corner of immaturity. Screw them, it’s unfortunate that they are so unhappy that mocking others is how they feel good.
Flirt like crazy because it’s FUN. and if you’re into a guy, offer him your number and if he calls, he’s interested, if he didn’t ..well it was sure fun practice!
“If so, he/she is interested and you can slowly escalate the touching until your hand is in their pants.”
Best advice ever!
I met my now boyfriend when I was in college and totally off my rocker. I didn’t know he was flirting with me until I told a guy friend about his behavior and the guy friend said “He’s SO flirting with you!”
So sometimes it helps to have male friends to help you decipher the odd behavior of other males.
Generally, if a guy is super interested to the point of almost being nosy, he’s probably flirting. My BF’s tell-tale sign was that he’d always find some way to touch me – put his hand on my shoulder, offer a backrub, etc.
Ha! I so need this post right now. I’m trying to figure out if a guy in one of my classes is giving me signals/flirting with me or just being a friend.
Colleen, the thing that tipped me off about my current uh…guy..thing…is that a mutual friend of ours (male) gives me no end of grief about how our friend moped around for two weeks after I left our mutual place of employment. heh I agree that having another guy’s perspective is very helpful!
It’s hard to say really. We (Zie males :P) work in mysterious ways.
For me, there’s a physical point that I’ll stop at if I’m just being playful, but when I flirt, I’m not interested nor uninterested at all times.
With my last ex, I did make the first moves. I became her friend (Over four months), commented, danced, got a little playful… ;)
Before that, it was a sort of 50/50: She showed me interest (As did I), we started calling each other, and so forth.
I personally don’t think there’s any real trends, but maybe how physical it gets might have something to do with it. Size isn’t a issue for me though. I flirt with women of all sizes, as well as date them. Hehe… ;)
Ooh… I SO don’t want to be a wet blanket here, but I’ve had a problem with exactly what Colleen describes, where friends confirm that somebody is flirting with me.
I’ve had several good, male, friends who would be VERY touchy-feely around me, VERY friendly, to the point that I and mutual friends all thought they were flirting. Then, when I tried to reciprocate, or approach them romantically, they recoiled in what looked like horror.
I’ve wondered why this happened again and again. I’ve wondered if, as a big girl I’m more approachable, and these guys have felt comfortable enough to let down their guard in a way that looks like flirting but isn’t.
It’s really thrown me for a loop, and made me question my ability to perceive flirtiness at all.
But then, I figure what the hell, I’d rather try and be wrong than not try at all.
Yay, flirting! I’m actually pretty good at this… I have, like, a sixth sense when it comes to vibes. Still, I don’t have advice so much as a philosophy: feel good and pay it forward.
1. If someone compliments you, is being friendly, or asks you flirty questions about your relationship status or availability, take him/her at face value. Don’t ask why, don’t doubt their judgement. Just be friendly and warm in return.
2. Unless the possible flirt is creepy or unwelcome, in which case you are under no obligation to be nice. Serious, you’re not. Not ever. For any reason.
3. But I repeat: never never doubt that you are interesting and flirtable.
4. Although you should say take your conversants at face value, sometimes people don’t mean what they say: they flirt to make themselves feel better or more powerful, or they flirt to get you interested but don’t know how to return interest, or they straight up don’t know what they want. This is not your fault. You can’t avoid encountering other people’s insecurities but you can at least not give in to your own: it’s better to treat folks as honest until they prove themselves a liar than it would be to doubt the intentions of honest folks who want to get to know you.
5. If you get in the habit of saying positive, complimentary things to men and women on a regular basis – that’s a nice shirt; that’s a really smart analysis; you have a knack for___ – then it seems more normal and natural when people return the same to you. Then, see #1.
Well, I’m pretty crap at this too, but one thing I’ve learned is that if he/she is looking at your lips a lot, it probably means he/she wants to kiss you.
I’ve also been in the situation described by O.C. above, where a guy acted very flirtatious with me, but had no real romantic interest. I don’t know if it was because of my size or what, but I found it very hurtful. It felt to me like he assumed I’d know he couldn’t POSSIBLY be interested since I’m obviously such a troll no one would want to date me. I think from his end he was just having a good time flirting and since that’s the way he is all the time I wouldn’t take it seriously. I’ve since learned to avoid that kind of charming man.
I knew my current boyfriend was into me when he asked me for another date. That was pretty straightforward, and we’ve been together three years. He was shy at first, too.
Eye contact is key. Also if you catch a guy/girl staring at you for absolutely no reason, this may be a clue that they think you are attractive (or at least pleasant to look at). Do they laugh at your jokes? Find any excuse to be close to you? Call/text you ten times a day just say hello? All “clues”
I am terrible at this. I too had to be told by someone else that my husband was interested in me. (I’m also not keen on being touched by people I don’t know well… so I’m not sure how I’d have reacted had a boy randomly touched me, even on the hand, even if I liked him.)
The “is he mocking me?” sentence really struck home, because when I was younger, that was always my first assumption. Partly from experience, I admit. If you’ve been wound up once as a young teenager, it’s very hard to believe anyone could be sincere.
These days I tend to assume that nobody would flirt with me so long as they know I’m married, and as a result have once or twice done that thing where you mention your partner just in case this is the way the conversation is going… but I’m still never sure if it is! I’m just socially inept…
I agree with Tanglethis! Never, ever doubt that you are interesting and flirtable. Take people at face value, but also don’t think “OMG this person is flirting with me, we’re going to get together and get married!” Sometimes flirtation is just flirtation and doesn’t signal any deeper interest. Sometimes the other person doesn’t know if they’re interested and is flirting to find out.
As for how you know you’re being flirted with, I’m sort of a bad example here. I have a radar for people who think I’m hot, and if I’m flirting with someone, they’re invariably flirting back.
Wow! This is exactly where my dissertation is going…well, sort of. I want to study how women in the fat acceptance movement negotiate romantic and sexual advance. It seems pretty common that fat women are confused or unsure about advances because we are often mocked and/or taken advantage of…or they’re unsure about flirting or making their own advances.
I literally laughed in the face of the first guy who ever asked for my number. I was running a McDonald’s drive-thru, he was in his car with a friend, and I thought he was surely trying to make fun of me. In hindsight, I feel really bad for that reaction because I’m pretty confident he was genuinely interested.
I’m not sure yet whether I will be doing face-to-face interviews or phone or some combination, but I’m hoping women will be willing to talk to me about their experiences.
I always used to think people who were flirting were mocking me. When I was a teenager I was so firmly convinced the first boy who asked me out was doing it on a dare (because he was ‘like sooo gorgeous’ and I was chubby old me) that I told him no in the the more scathing voice that I could muster…to see his face immediately fall and realise I had blown it (then everyone mocked both of us, because chubby geeky girl dating, hee, and cute boy liking chubby girl, ha!). Basically, big mess.
So, in short I’d say always assume they are serious if you want them to be because it’s better than ruining your own chances of happiness and if they do turn out to be mocking; screw them, they’d be lucky to go out with someone as cool and as gorgeous as you.
My main flirting tips/clues are eye contact and smiling. Someone you don’t know very well catching your eye and smiling, they probably like you, you look down and back once or twice and they’re still staring, then I’d say they definitely do (that or you have something stuck to your face). Conversely, catching someone’s eye, giving them a full smile, and if you’re up to it raising your eyebrows a little (oh my gosh), is a winner with most boys.
I’ll add myself to the list of the clueless… 90% of my close friends are male, and we go out, shoot pool, etc. With some of them there’s a level of harmless flirting-for-fun.
Unfortunately it leads to me needing the old clue-by-four to the head to realize when someone is flirting with intent. My other half and I have a running joke about my obliviousness, since he thought it was our third date when I figured out we were on a date 5 minutes before he tried to kiss me.
(shrug) I guess figuring it out is always tough, but what works for me is being confident, cheerful (with snark), and friendly… The ones who are really interested and strong enough to be worth the trouble will eventually make themselves understood.
I have always had a fascination with the flirting ritual. I love watching people do it. I’ve even been to a flirting workshop. I could probably write a short book about clues and cues. But I’ve never actually been able to do it with conscious intent before. It is my goal this year to do just that though. Thanks for this line: “to be unafraid to strike up conversations with absolutely anybody at any time.” as I included it on my list of things to do this year.
I think, if you are interested in someone, but aren’t sure whether they are flirting with/interested in you, the solution is to simply ask. I’m not a fan of testing the waters by hinting things or giving clues. Maybe I’m dense, but I much prefer forthrightness. If he/she denies you, that sucks, but you will get over that awkardness in time. Constantly wondering “is (s)he, isn’t (s)he” is taxing and could go on for too long! You could be moving on to other prospects in that time.
A quote “Regret for the things we did can be tempered by time; it is regret for the things we did not do that is inconsolable”
““If so, he/she is interested and you can slowly escalate the touching until your hand is in their pants.”
Best advice ever!”
Colleen, you are also a giver of good advice. Because this
“So sometimes it helps to have male friends to help you decipher the odd behavior of other males”
is also quite brilliant.
I think back on the 1st chair trombonist at music camp and the young Spanish prince (yes, really) at summer school for accelerated teens whose advances I completely misunderstood and apparently rejected because I was clueless and had no male friends that would share. Perhaps ’cause I didn’t ask them? I told you, clueless. Clueless sheltered only child.
*sulk* *pout*
“If so, he/she is interested and you can slowly escalate the touching until your hand is in their pants.”
Hee hee hee hee hee hee …
“I’ve even been to a flirting workshop.”
*Steph we can haz registrayshun info plz plz plz kthx*
I’m so naive when it comes to flirting. So I’m probably not a huge fountain of advice, but I think it’s one of those things that comes naturally, or at least thats what my friends say to me because I’ll be talking to a guy and then walk away and a friend will inform me that, “You were totally flirting with that guy!” and I was blissfully unaware I was doing anything besides having a conversation.
But that’s just me. I might have it all wrong.
This reminds me of when I was in high school, there was a guy I had a crush on. I don’t remember his name, but he looked alot like the older Pete from that show Pete & Pete from Nickelodeon, if you remember that show.
He asked me to go to a football game with him, being Goth at the time and pretty much anti-school spirit, I said “What the heck would I go to a football game?!” I didn’t realize until a few weeks later, he was asking me to go cause he was on the team and wanted to impress me with his sports abilities. I felt like (‘-_-)
This should be with the above post, somehow I managed to cut the post off half-way.
I think teens tend to feel rather ego-centric about their problems. Like they’re the only person in the world who’s going through what they’re going through. Which makes them rather blind to any romantic expressions, cause they’re too busy freaking out about their own drama.
So some tell-tale signs the guy/girl is flirting with you:
-they are smiling at you with both mouth and eyes
– they are standing or sitting or lounging in a similar position to you and when you move they move as well.
-when you are talking they are looking at your face and scanning over it, not at the bartender, not at some other girl. The romance pattern is “eyes, lips, lips, eyes” the friendly pattern is “one eye, the other eye, nose, eye”
-they think you are really funny and tell you so, or make a compliment that is about you, not your stuff
-when you move slightly away, they move slightly forward.
-you start giggling for no apparent reason and he is charmed rather than repulsed (that might be love though)
Oh, man. I always wished for my mother’s confidence. Even if a man was being rude, she’d still play it blatantly sexual, never allowing herself to be made uncomfortable, instead preferring to turn the tables… An amazing woman. We once scared the shit out of a waiter at Bennigan’s by commenting on his cologne, LOL.
On the mocking: you maximise the possibility of getting what you want by assuming people are not mocking you. It is so easy to assume you are being mocked that sarcasm or rudeness can become a knee jerk response. (In my head I call it the fat-girl-bristle: I would assume the worst at all times and I am sure I was unwittingly rude to some really nice people this way). If he or she was mocking you and you respond as if they were serious, they end up looking more foolish than you anyway.
When I was a teenager and in my early twenties, I thought any male looking at me was to mock me. I didn’t learn to flirt until I was about 24. It took me to then to realized that I wasn’t as fat and ugly as I imagined myself to be.
I suppose I know that a man is flirting with me if he’s looking at me. I’ll flirt with almost anyone that looks at me twice. Most of my flirting has taken place while I was in a serious relationship so most of it is fun, not serious.
I’m 17, I weigh around 250 pounds, and I LOVE flirting. I have been told by lots of guys that I am very attractive because i give a vibe of being sexually confident.
I really think confidence is the key. I love my body, and I think that comes across when I’m flirting.
I don’t want to seem arrogant. All I know is that it rarely even occurs to me that a lad wouldn’t want to kiss me, and thus far I have kissed every person I have ever wanted to.
Oh an interesting thing is that my most recent admirer is a very good looking guy who is very critical of how girls look, and who has only ever been attracted to the typical thin, athletic body type. But he told several people that he just finds my confidence really attractive and sexy!
Seriously, just be proud of your body and confident!! Literally has ever failed for me!
I have to go with Pepper on this. Although as a young woman I was very insecure about my body until I had a boyfriend tell me how sexy I was (first boyfriend ever, when i was in COLLEGE i might add) and then my last year in college one of my classmates (we’ll call him Ken Doll because he looked like one) who EVER girl in my department wanted to get into bed with, propositioned me. My gut reaction was that he was mocking me/too drunk to realize what he was doing, etc. I blew it off. The next week we were both only one drink into karaoke and he leaned across the table and informed me he was serious and the offer was till on the table, was I interested? I was astounded and I even said “oh come on ‘Ken’ you date skinny little penelope cruz looking women, why would you want to have sex with me?” His response?
“I just think it will be So much FUN”
And so I did it and even though it was BAD sex (occasionally that happens, we all learn from it) I realized that I am hot because of things OTHER than how I look and that was a big lesson for me. I am a FUN girl. I flirt, I laugh, I am smart and creative and sometimes that is SOOOOOOO much MORE sexy than anything physical.
I have no good answer for this. I’m a gay gal. Women flirt with everyone. They flirt with their friends, foes and would-be lovers.
It’s heavenly and hellish at the same time, dammit.
Thank you Emily! It’s all about confidence. And the only way to be confident is to just decide how long your going to let social assumptions affect your behaviour.
As a fat girl I assumed I was hideous, repulsive to every man and woman in my path (I’m bi sexual).
And then i had an epiphany, I don’t have to live like this! Why waste so much energy on hating myself?? I don’t have a confined view of whats attractive, why on earth would everyone else??
Once you start having a positive outlook your whole view of yourself changes and you really do start loving your body! And it really doesnt take a long time, after about a month I was really happy!!
So now I’m confident, I love my body, and when I’m out with my friends (one of which is a model) I always get approached by people first…
No one is ugly, there is no such thing. And there is no such thing as leagues!!
Wow, I feel so honored that my first-ever comment here elicited an entire blog post! I’ve thought about your responses a lot but I’ve found it hard to come up with a satisfactory response of my own…I wanted to write something positive and upbeat but… well.
Anyway, it was good to read that I’m not the only one who is afraid of being mocked when a guy pays attention to me – not good for the other women that feel that way, of course, but good to know that I’m not alone. I definitely recognize what Sophie (?) called the ‘fat girl bristle’ as well – I tend to expect the worst from people at all times. I’ve gotten some crap about my appearance from men in the (recent) past, too – a boyfriend who told me ‘You’re not pretty – models are. You’re not’, a classmate who called me ugly on a web site, a friend who warned me that so-and-so probably wouldn’t be interested in me because he liked ‘beautiful girls’, a guy from my dorm who told my friend, in my presence, that another guy had referred to her as ‘the blonde girl from ___, you know, the cute one’ to distinguish between her and me. Et cetera, et cetera – and there are many more examples of people of both sexes pretending to like me who in fact talked shit about me behind my back. I find it hard to trust people for these reasons and my size only makes matters worse. On good days, I am convinced that I at least have a pretty face, and that I could look nice and worthy of attention if I had better clothes (if only I still lived in the US, where plus-size clothing is readily available and decent-looking), but on bad days, of which today is one, I can only think of how I need to drop somewhere around ninety pounds to become tolerable. I have had long-term relationships – I am in one now, so technically I don’t even need flirting advice ;) – but I can’t help but think that my boyfriend is an anomaly, the only man in the whole wide world to find me attractive, and that I should not get my hopes up about other men looking in my direction, since they’re probably only staring at me because I’m so fat. Le sigh. FA has made me feel slightly more empowered, slightly better about myself, but living in a country in which the ‘obesity epidemic!!!’ hysteria and the concomitant fat-hatred is a more novel phenomenon, it’s hard to hear the FA voice over the voice of the world around me.
You know, I too feel like people are mocking me sometimes. Even just a glance at me feels more like a smirk some days. Of course, other days, when the hormones kick in? Yeah.
I have no advice for you, because I’m still trying to figure this out myself. But I hope that we both can gain that confidence people are talking about above.
About guys who seem to flirt and then act horrified if you try to take it further…It may be that they truly were attracted to you and flirting, but are embarrassed to admit it. It’s horrible, but some guys are embarrassed to admit they like fat girls.
About flirting with other girls…I wish I could figure out signals from girls, because I have been interested, but I’m used to the guy making the move. Guys are so obvious in comparison.
Flirting and means it? Gees, who really means its. Isn’t it a game for most people, men and women, thick or thin? Flirting isn’t a sign of geniune interest.
The only way to find out if someone likes you is to put yourself out there. Ask the person out. If they say no, then that’s a pretty good sign they are not interested.
I think by being confident though I scare of some of the more timid guys that would be interested in me. I dunno, I react differently than a lot of other women to flirting. For example with body language, if the person I was with leaned away, I wouldn’t lean forward, I’d be thinking “uh oh, I must have said something wrong…or my breath smells, etc.”
I used to be really good at flirting, and at the time, I didn’t even know I was doing it! My friends and I were on a trip in Vegas (not drinking or partying, keeping it totally clean) and they both commented on how flirtatious I was being. I said “What are you talking about? I’m just trying to be friendly.” I had always associated flirting with loud gum chewing, twirling hair and annoying peals of laughter. I didn’t know that the smart-alec comments I would make to strangers was flirting in their eyes.
My problem now is that I’m more shy than I used to be and now whenever I have to think about flirting while someone is flirting with me, I usually mess it up. So my word of advice, don’t over-think about it, just do whatever works best for you at go at your own pace.