Too Something
Whether they’re “too fat” or “too thin,” certain celebrities get asked about their weight constantly. To wit, Keira Knightley:
“It’s really frustrating, and particularly when you come to Venice with a film that is an intelligent film. I think it was just a shame that that had to be brought up then, and the fact that we all knew that it was going to be brought up. We actually had a bet going. I was like ‘Come on, how many times either anorexia or something about my body, are going to come up?'”
Not to dredge up the whole debate again, but it really does happen only to women. I keep thinking of Jezebella’s comment:
I’ve never seen a close-up picture of a man’s ass in any magazine or online with a headline saying something like, “Nicholson’s got cellulite!” “Philip Seymour Hoffman tells us he’s okay with his curves!”
Actually, that Philip Seymour Hoffman line would make a great tagline.
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Celebrities, Keira Knightley, Meta, Movies, Tidbit
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I have seen similar things happen to/with guys, but it’s nowhere near as rampant. I can’t recall when or where, but i remember seeing a printed rag somewhere with pictures and bold headlines announcing how “fat and ugly” Val Kilmer had gotten.
In any case, celebrities are human too. The sorts of pedestals we put them on are just as unrealistic as the photoshopped images we create of them. :P
While I didn’t see her VMA smash, same goes for Britney Spears being called “fat.” Most reviews I’ve read of the event mention her “beer gut” and untoned body more than the actual content of her act.
Let’s critique her for what really matters – her questionable parenting techniques, choice in men, and lip-syncing abilities.
…still, I’d like to look so good wearing little more than fishnets and knee-high boots.
While it certainly doesn’t happen to nearly the same degree, and it’s rarely the cover story, there does seem to be an increase in the number of stories in the tabs about men’s bodies. More along the lines of “who has the better 6 pacK?”.
There are certainly more diet ads aimed at men – all the ones with former athletes come to mind.
And the aisles of all the stores are now filled with all kinds of fancy face washes and shave creams for men that didn’t exist 5 years ago.
It may not be to the same level yet, but it’s happening, and I bet in a few years shaming men will be just as rampant – think of all the more money the diet and beauty industry can get if they add the other 50% of the population to their customer lists.
I was watching MTV’s TRL this morning…a repeat episode with Evanescence’s Amy Lee. They replayed the Brittany segment and asked her opinion.
Amy Lee really didn’t let herself get drawn into the whole “was Britt a train wreck or not” but she did say something along the lines of “regardles of her performance, anyone who says she is fat is crazy. We have such a skewed perception of what FAT is, it’s ridiculous”.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
PS: I have heard comments about Marlon Brando and John Travolta. In fact, I was amazed (not in a good way) about how many places I saw/heard comments about Pavarotti’s stature in the days following his death instead of his voice.
Females do seem to get the brunt but the guys aren’t immune.
I think that the difference is that men can fluctuate a bit more within the “normal” BMI before they start to get comments. But it is true that men get the pressure. I remember even many years ago when the actor who played Chandler on “Friends” went on a diet between seasons.
It’s certainly true that fat-hate isn’t female exclusive, but I think it’s a bigger problem for a really gross reason. Sex. Sex, sex appeal, how much sex you have, or shouldn’t be having…etc. A woman’s worth is touted as, basically, being equivalent to her ability to create and maintain erections. So if she’s fat, and unattractive, she shouldn’t be able to do that, and that obviously trumps talent, or intelligence or anything else of substance.
First of all, even if a man’s size increase, or lack of fitness is asked about, it is never, EVER associated with a “So now women don’t want to fuck you, right?” That makes sense, of course, cause it’s assumed that famous, rich men are really all a woman can dream of in her life. It might be associated with parts, or health, but never his sexuality. It ALWAYS is with women, for good or bad. For example, Kirstie Alley actually mentioned how being fat means she didn’t have sex or it wasn’t as good or something. You’d never hear Jack Black or John Goodman or some other fat actor say such a thing.
If a woman who is famous does happen to also pass for conventionally attractive, it’s a HUGE FREAKING DEAL. That’s true of the Kiera Knightely situation too. Men still want to fuck her…or they are grossed out…but either way, it’s the point of the story.
Just
Ick. Women are the sex class, it’s not pretty, and fat is just another reason to bring it up.
I saw a commercial tonight for feminine hygene products which started out with a woman working out on a weight machine. When she moved her arms out a chunky guy, certainly not morbidly obeese, doing arm curls came into view. The woman groaned and said “Upgrade” Closed her arms and opened them again and all of a sudden what came into view? You guessed it a well toned man doing arm curls came into view.
I ask what does that have to do with the product your selling? To suggest that a mans sex appeal is not tied to his size or fitness level is, in my opinion, simply absurd.
I think often times members of both sexes don’t see the offenses against members of the opposite sex as much. Doesn’t mean its not occuring.
And as to those calling Kate Winslet, Kirsty Alley, Brittney Spears or any number of people famous or not “fat” it is clearly unacceptable.
For some reason this society has a “model size” that they expect all women and men to adhere to. And its quite frankly sickening.
Even now on news stands their is a magazine questioning if certain actresses are too thin.
There is some sort of obsession in this country about peoples size and shape, of both sexes.
Ugh, Matt, that sounds like a horrible commercial. I have watched this situation continue to get worse for men over the past few years and I agree with Toni… while I think there are still feminist aspects to fat that will never really carry over to men in the abstract, it will not be long before the tenor of social pressure for men to be thin (and to wax, whiten teeth, do various things to their skin and hair, etc. etc…. and undoubtedly the pressure to be muscular is actually worse for men) will be pretty hard to distinguish from the current pressure on women.
Has to be said that there are also horrible commercials for men’s grooming products.
I have enjoyed mocking TV ads for razors for some years now, because of the tendency to include irrelevant CG footage of racing cars, jet fighters etc (because obviously shaving with this razor is just THAT EXCITING).
But the latest one I’ve seen has an exaggeratedly female robot in the shower with the guy, shaving him.
Excuse me?
At least she isn’t telling him he’s worth it.
I don’t disagree at all. There are ads aimed at both sexes that are just… welll simply offensive.
Advertising industry.. sorry I know one of the mods is an advertiser mignion… is one of the biggest culprits of sizeisims.
Don’t know if anyone watched Biggest Loser last night or not. The first commercial that comes on is an ad that promotes 24 Hr Fitness. It shows a guy who, in my opinion really isn’t fat.. his BMI may be high, but certainly not fat… They are promoting the New Biggest Loser Weight Loss 6 week program. The very, and I mean VERY next commercial we are shown a little girl running with her dad. The girl says something about her parents losing a lot of weight to be able to be there for her and play with her.. switch to an ad for a Weight Loss Surgery Clinic.
What message are we sending? That the truly overweight people are too lazy to work out and exercise?
I must add this caveat, I know that Baritric Surgery is NOT an easy way. My fiance had it done, I am fully aware of the challenges that come with it, but it IS viewed that way by many people.
But this is exactly what I am talking about. If we want people to change their views about people of size, then we have to stop our own infighting about which gender has the most or the higher degree of discrimination against them.
If we want ads to portray people of size in a positive light, if we want TV programs to portray people of size in a positive light, we need to have to be united, as a group.
I’d like to see a discussion on here to that regard. :)
Matt, there are three differences. The first is that a man has a greater range of weights in which he is still considered attractive. A woman with 10 “extra” pounds (such as Britney at the VMAs) is considered fat, people don’t even notice 10 extra pounds on a man. The second is that even if a man is considered physically unattractive, he is still fuckable if he is rich, famous or funny. A woman is only fuckable if she is thin and attractive. Third, and most importantly, a man’s worth is not tied to whether or not people want to have sex with him the way a woman’s is. A man’s worth is tied to his accomplishments. A woman’s is not. But that’s a feminism issue, not a fat issue. I’m not trying to say fat men don’t have it hard, or even that fat women have it harder. Just that feminist issues and fat issues are very strongly interwoven and sometimes when you’re talking about one, the other comes up.
Becky,
I will address all 3 of your “differences” individually.
1. “The first is that a man has a greater range of weights in which he is still considered attractive”
Not entirely sure what is meant by this. If you had seen the commercial I was referencing the man was hardly morbidly obesee He was a slightly overweight male.
Forget the part that he was exercising trying to get/stay fit and healthy. Forget anything about his mind, ambitions, goals or personality, set of values, intelillgence, what he could offer someone. She immediately went to “Upgrade” mode. Why, because he wasn’t attractive enough for her. And simply by the fact that they went to a similar male (hair color, same color shorts and Tshirt) leads any one of any intelligence that it is the size and weight.
But I guess by your reasoning, if his shirt had said Im rich, then she wouldn’t have needed the upgrade, huh?
Please don’t try to tell me that 10 extra pounds is not noticed on a man, because it is. In most cases it is called a beer belly.
Lets just forget for a moment that 10 extra pounds is hardly considered fat.
And I agree with you on Britney Spears. It is simply absurd to say that she is overweight with 10 extra pounds. But then, is it ONLY men that say she is fat? I would assert that in most cases it is other women who say she is fat, not men.
2. “The second is that even if a man is considered physically unattractive, he is still fuckable if he is rich, famous or funny.”
Are you serious? oh, wait.. lets combine these two…
“The second is that even if a man is considered physically unattractive, he is still fuckable if he is rich, famous or funny.”
“Third, and most importantly, a man’s worth is not tied to whether or not people want to have sex with him the way a woman’s is”
HUH?
So on one hand, looks don’t matter as long as a man is rich or famous or funny he is still fuckable, yet on the other hand his worth has nothing to do with his fuckability?
Seriously, I don’t get the correlation.
Perhaps its everyones view on worth. I put much more worth on a persons intelligence, sense of humor, set of values and goals in life than I do on what size pants they wear.
And again….. I assert that if we, as a group of people of size, want the world to have the same view of a persons sense of worth, then we need to stop debating on who has it worse.
And to address your last point. “Just that feminist issues and fat issues are very strongly interwoven and sometimes when you’re talking about one, the other comes up”
And I have said in a technical sense it is a feminist issue, but at the same token it is a maleist issue, is that even a word??? as well.
Please take just 5 minutes to do some research online, just real simple searches for positve fat role models, fat acceptance, body image acceptance… I think you will find a HUGE and I mean HUGE gap in the number of sites out there for Men vs those for Women.
Ask yourself why that is… If your answer is that it is more socially acceptable for a man to be fat than a womans then I say that you are missing the issue completely.
In large part it is because men are taught to be the strong ones. Taught to not let these things bother us, or else we are labled with some sort of emasculated view point.
Rest assured men out there do feel their own self worth questioned when they are overweight. They doubt their ability to preform many jobs as well as others because of either perceived or real prejudices in the world. They do question their abilty to find a mate or even friends.
Even in your own words.. If a man is unattractive he is “fuckable” as long as he is rich, famous or funny.
As if fuckable is what everyone should aspire to be in this world.
I was watching an episode of “Made” on MTV. It featured a 331 pound 17 year old boy who wanted to be made into a “chick magnet”. The show handled this quite well because his “made coach” left the weight issue completely up to him.
What held him back the most (he never had a girlfriend or even kissed a girl) wasn’t really his weight, but how uncomfortable he was about it. Mind you, this kid was adorable, funny and sensitive; VERY dateable. My point is that he’s a produc of the pressures that are also put on men to be “hot”. The guys, like the girls are getting younger and younger. We ladies are also presented by Hollywood with images of the ideal man: buff, young (or at least young looking), perfectly groomed (many of today’s popular male actors are clean shaven; this includes the many famous hairless chests that are out there). While I staunchly agree that fat is a feminist issue, I must confess that I am one of the casualties of what the media tells us to look at. I tend to ogle the pecs and abs of Mario Lopez, Ryan Reynolds, 50 Cent, Tyrese, Tyson Beckford and Justin Timberlake. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t expect guys to look like them (the men I have dated don’t), but I do get caught up sometimes. It’s an uphill battle for everybody. Stay strong, y’all! :-D
Oh, but what about teh menz! Bless their widdle hearts. Why is it that a conversation about a woman being harassed for being “fat” always has to turn into a “poor little me”-fest for some dude? It’s not always about the menz, my fat brethren. Sometimes, you should listen to women and what we have to say instead of telling us what’s REALLY important (to you). Really. Just, sshhhhh. LISTEN. STOP TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF. It’s not that hard.
Any rational person can see that fat-shaming and body-shaming directed at women is vastly more rampant than the same thing directed at men. Sure, there are examples, but our entire culture, all forms of media, values women by their (our) fuckability.
A woman could cure cancer, and the article would start with a description of her clothes, shoes, and size. A woman could catch Osama Bin Laden, and we’d know within a paragraph whether she was fuckable or not.
In defense of the “menz”….
I don’t think Matt’s post was about him at all. He was just chiming in, giving us another perspective; a male perspective and an interesting one (IMO). I agree that women are crutinized to the point that if one of us is 10 pounds overweight we’re called fat, and for men the range is much higher (a guy has to look like he’s carrying triplets in order to be slapped with the fat label). However it gives me a bit of relief when a guy writes about the ridiculous standards out there and how it affects him. I may be wrong I know, I’m just saying that what I got from that post was different.
Ha ha!
That was meant to say, “scrutinized”, not “crutinized”, as if I was implying that we women are being turned into a delicious salad topping! :-D
Jezzabella,
I don’t recall talking about myself at all in my posts, but hey, don’t let that fact get in the way of a good rant, huh?
“Any rational person can see that fat-shaming and body-shaming directed at women is vastly more rampant than the same thing directed at men”
Ok. So?
So what can we, as a group of people of size, regardless of gender, do about it?
We both have it bad so lets try talking about things we can do to solve the problem instead of the varying degrees of the problem.
I was merely trying to point out that there are very clear instances in todays media and society that demonstrate that it is truly a genderless problem.
And I assert that only when we as a group can stop our little bickering over varying degrees of persecution… then we can start focusing on the problem at hand. Then we can start portraying a positive front. Then we can slowly start to make the changes that we want to see.
Untill then its going to be a he vs she infighting argument and nothing is going to get solved.
And I assert that it is NOT a genderless problem. Fat issues are different for women than they are for men. I cannot consider a man who refuses to acknowledge this an ally.
Sure, you weren’t talking about “yourself,” but you did turn a conversation about a woman into a conversation about men. Why do you do that? Really. Why are you so bothered by a conversation in which the way fat-hating affects WOMEN?
sigh. You still refuse to talk about what things we can do as a group to solve the problems.
For you its ALL about some sort of validation that yes there are problems for women.
When you are able to get past that, let me know.
And to answer this:
“Sure, you weren’t talking about “yourself,” but you did turn a conversation about a woman into a conversation about men. Why do you do that? Really. Why are you so bothered by a conversation in which the way fat-hating affects WOMEN?”
Lets examine a few quotes BEFORE my first post, shall we?
1. “Not to dredge up the whole debate again, but it really does happen only to women”
My point is the word only is completely inaccurate and if you want to be taken seriously these words need to be omitted from peoples thought process.
2. “First of all, even if a man’s size increase, or lack of fitness is asked about, it is never, EVER associated with a “So now women don’t want to fuck you, right?” That makes sense, of course, cause it’s assumed that famous”
And I provided evidence that supported the EXACT OPPOSITE of this. Again my point was to demonstrate that if as a group of people of size we want people to view us ALL differently then we need to omitt these things from our thought processes.
It seems to me though, Jezz, that you are only interested in the fight for equality of ALL women in ALL instances, and just forget men altogether.
I mean, how dare a man come in and offer a thought provoking perspective. How dare a man say that he exists at all in this world.
You say you cannot consider a man who refuses to accept that the problems are different an ally.
1. I HAVE said that women have problems too. And it is NOT limited to just Fat Acceptance. But that would mean you would have to read what was said. I wonder if I changed my name to Maria if my words would have any validity to you.
2. I hope that some day you can come to the realization that the persecutions that we both face are unacceptable and that we should work as a group to eliminate as much as them as we can.
I doubt that will happen as you refuse to accept any man unless he bows down to you and says yes mam.
Me thinks we have a troll ladies!!!!
If we stop feeding it, will it go away?!?!
Heather,
I have started and deleted about a dozen different replies to your claim.
Some kind, some not so kind.
The truth of the matter is simply this.
Whether or not you think I am a troll doesn’t really matter to me.
My viewpoint has been consistent and has not changed. I have not flamed anyone nor have I called anyone names.
I simply offered a males perspective, mostly in reply to a few things that I read that I personally felt needed corrected.
At the end of the day Heather, my view point will be the same. We all have our own set of unique problems we deal with as it relates to the Fat issue. No one group has the exclusive rights to the pain and frustration that we all feel.
We are all also in this fight together. Why can’t we just accept that and begin talking about ways to overcome these challanges without singling out one individual for persecution and prejudice just because his view points differ from yours?
Your opinions are yours, and probably not isolated, and thats fine. But please remember that sometimes you should judge slowly.
If it makes you feel any better though, please feel free to visit my myspace page:
http://www.myspace.com/dagambiteer
In the very least it will show you a photo of me, which will clearly show that I am who I say I am. A 400+lb man who is very concerned with the way we, as a group, are portrayed.
Ah, yes, the dude comes in to tell us all about the Male Perspective, because, really, the male perspective is so often ignored in our culture. Thanks!
I’m not sure we *are* in this fight together, Matt. My fight is against the whole patriarchy, not just the size-ist corner of it. In a culture where fuckability were not the first, last, and only way women are valued, fat would not be an issue. It wouldn’t be an issue for men OR for women. I’m not interested in laying down my feminism until fat-phobia has been eradicated.
Leftist, progressive, and activist men of every single stripe always, ALWAYS, want women to wait until some OTHER fight is finished before we get around to gender issues. No, I say. No.
Jezz, thats the difference here. Your talking about one fight, Im talking about another completely.
Since this is a blog about…”that focuses on the portrayal of weight in pop culture” (taken directly from the Whats The Big Fat Deal? Intro page) I would naturally assume that my comments regarding those issues relating to the portryal of weight are warranted and quite valid.
So no, I am not asking you to give up what ever fight it is you wish to fight. But please don’t expect me to give up my part in the fight against fat hatred simply because I am a male.
I don’t expect anything of you, Matt. Really.
I would point out that “pop culture” is culture, and our culture is a patriarchy. It’s all linked: fat-hatred, misogyny, racism, classism, homophobia. To defeat one, you have to defeat all. Choose your battle, as I do, but don’t forget the larger war.
Oh, and it’s Jez, ONE z, not Jezz with two z’s. Please.
I appreciate hearing about male and female points of view on this issues. No one’s experiences are exactly the same, male or female, but we all are connected by our desire to be seen as valuable. Keep posting.
I gotta agree with Jez on this matter.
I think fat has been medicalized and pathologized in a universal sense, but I think the penalities for fat are somehow different for women. Now, I’m willing to concede that the male body is being objectified in a way it hadn’t been say 20 years ago. (Anyone remember that Bugle Boy Jeans commercial? The one where a taut lad in nothin’ but baggy bugle boys was caught by the camera, underwater? The camera pulls back and we see a 1940s-era glamour girl, a basket full of baseballs on her hip, gazing at said lad as if she wants to eat him? Camera pulls back again and delicious lad — washboard abs, full head of hair, clear, light eyes — is in a dunking booth. That’s when I first became concious of the male body getting similar treatment to the female form in advertising.)
With all respect to Matt, however, the female body is, in this culture, largely a piece of public real estate. Our bodies are literally goverened differently than yours. Politically, the female body is seen as something to be managed. Medically, the female body is seen as something to be managed. The male body is politically and medically considered a free agent. The way my doctor talks to me about my weight is different than how my uncle’s doctor talks to him about his weight.
I simply can’t believe it’s because male and female fat are seen, dealt with and treated (medically) the same. We have similar struggles, yes. But the cultural penalties are identical.
in the men vs. women debate:
When one is viewed by our (insane) society as “obese”, I believe that they will be treated like crap whether they are male OR female.
This said, if a man is considered only “mildly overweight”, he will be considered a “big guy”. If he is a celebrity (Philip Seymour Hoffman, Jack Black), he will still be able to get the lead role in films. Articles about him will not concentrate on his belly rolls, nor will they even mention his looks at all. A female in this position will probably not get any more lead roles in films UNLESS the film is some chick-flick drivel that is ABOUT being chubby and still wanting to get a man, have a life, etc. (and, in hollywood films, “getting a man” and “having a life” are pretty much equated for women. Lesbians don’t exist, and neither do women who do not base their entire lives on what men think of them.
So I think the male fat/female fat issue differs with the perceived amount of fat the individual in question has. But there is NO DOUBT that a woman cannot be mentioned (whether doctor, actress, or whatever) without her looks being considered WAY MORE of an issue than a man’s looks. Not only that, homely men are usually considered “handsome”, while pretty women are regularly called “fat”, “ugly”, “old”, etc. The bar is set FAR HIGHER for a woman’s looks than a man’s.