I hadn’t seen the show, so I went and checked out some clips to get a feel for what it is like. There seems to be a range of fat experience here: some women have lost weight, some are dieting, some are very accepting of themselves. Many of them are matter-of-fact about their bodies, and have seemingly learned to blame the clothes, not themselves, if something doesn’t work. And of course, some are less confident, or apprehensive about the whole experience. Some hate trying clothes on; one woman admitted she hadn’t worn a dress in 20 years. The people helping them seem to be pretty positive and encouraging. (Although after watching a bunch of these videos, I still haven’t seem them find one dress that isn’t strapless, what is up with that.) (I also suddenly feel like getting married all over again in a giant white poofy strapless dress. Maybe I’ve watched too many clips in a row.)

So, have you ever seen the show? Do you have any advice for Laurie? Check out the clips below and let us know in the comments what you think. And good luck, Laurie! Let us know when the episode airs!

I was pretty fine with my body. Fine with being a fat bride. Fine with the fact that I was wearing a strapless dress which showed off my, yes, arms — which are considered unacceptably fat by many people. Until it actually happened.

Suddenly, my appearance was way more important than it had ever been. I’m certain that I couldn’t count how many people complimented me on my appearance. On my dress, my shoes, my hair, my makeup, my jewelry. I did not get any criticism, thank God. I only got tons and tons of compliments from everyone there. And the compliments keep rolling in on the photos I posted on Facebook. I was about to say “not that I mind them,” but the fact is, I do mind them. Not because I think people are ill-intentioned or because I find compliments embarrassing. But because it was so apparent to me that my looking beautiful, or sexy, or whatever, was an important component of the event. It was a feature. My appearance was part of the entertainment, and so matter what I did, if I went along with the cultural prescription by getting dolled up, I was going to be rewarded with oohs and ahhs.

I think we’ve all experienced this fixation on the appearance of the bride*, either as a wedding guest or as a participant–and hopefully not a competitor in the “wedding dress challenge” by You Know Who. I didn’t walk down the aisle at my wedding–I didn’t even have an aisle, just a party. And I still wish I’d had better hair, which, why!? Anyway, the whole post is a must-read.

*Or brides, I hope.

My problem—and my problem with most advice-outlets—is that there’s not much of a resource for people like me. In movies, ugly characters are redeemed by being made beautiful in time to catch the eye of their love interest, or else their ugliness is a joke (Ugly Betty is NOT ugly). In practical life, we’re taught that personality matters more than physicality, but there are plenty of attractive (or at least normal-looking) people who are also decent human beings.

What is there for people like me who will never be remotely attractive and who are just average on the inside?

The Dear Sugar column includes a story about a man who was severely burned, and who ultimately committed suicide, believing he’d never find romantic love–as well as a response to the man who wrote in, which is quite beautifully written.

Inhabit the beauty that lives in your beastly body and strive to see the beauty in all the other beasts. Walk without a stick into the darkest woods. Believe that the fairy tale is true.

Our own questioner, who signed herself FB (or “female beast”) goes on to ask:

I’m a woman who is just plain ugly, no genetic disorders, just ugly. The thing is I try. I clean up, I dress nicely, but I’m not pretty and I have never once been approached in a bar or at a party, or asked on a date by a colleague or friend, no matter how sparkling and charming and witty I might be. And I put myself out there, I talk, I flirt. It’s very easy to say “Oh, it’s just your manner” or “If you met the right guy…” when you fall into the “Normal to Pretty” category, but I’m not in that category. I’m just not attractive, I’m ugly. So how am I supposed to keep looking, keep trying, when for so long all I have faced is constant rejection? Because, while women may look past looks, its just not the same for men. How do I not give up?

One thing to keep in mind, FB, is how lucky* you are to be free from genetic disorders or physical deformities. Those of us who don’t fit the mold of stereotypical beauty–whether because we’re fat or for some other reason–can often forget that. The “Fatosphere” is sometimes criticized for being ableist because it is so easy to ignore the fact that not everyone faces the same challenges.

And hopefully we can have a conversation about that too, because I would like to learn more about disability politics, and make sure this blog is a positive voice as far as that goes. (For instance, is it okay to say we are “lucky” not to be physically deformed? Does that mean we are saying able-bodied people are superior to those who are not able-bodied? And if so, what do we say instead?)

[*It has been pointed out that this is, in fact, an offensive statement. I'm leaving it here so you have context for the conversation in the comments, but I do apologize for using ableist language. I also don't want to make FB feel that her problems are not valid or less valid, and apologize also if I inadvertently did so.]

But anyway, this is not to diminish the fact that you feel that your physical appearance does affect your love life, and that you’d like advice. To that end, commenter boots asked some follow-up questions:

@ FB, I have so many follow-up questions…also, thanks for the link to that Dear Sugar column, that’s fascinating.

1. How old are you? (Just curious where you are in your life)

2. What does “giving up” mean to you in the context of finding love? What are you doing currently in your search that you would not do if you gave up looking?

3. Was anything in the comments of the Dear Sugar column helpful to you? (there were some pretty good thoughts there–even the stuff I didn’t agree with I thought might work for someone else)

Hopefully FB will come back to respond to those questions; I’ve sent her an email alerting her to the conversation. In the meantime, what advice would you give FB–can we help her? And what advice would you give me?

[*Just to clarify, the "poly" part isn't the bad thing, it's that this is not a healthy poly relationship, in which everyone's needs are being met. This seems like he's using "poly" as an excuse to write off his terrible behavior.]

Can I just be his supportive great best friend who cooks the meals and buys the groceries and pays the bills and is his best buddy and helps him with relationship problems and talks to him and cheers him up and cleans the house and is too fat to f–k? Can I do that? Do I want to do that? Will it really be fixed (“maybe” he said… MAYBE) if I lost the extra weight I’m carrying?

The good news is, thank god, to be found in the answers. The very wise answers.

Should you go on a diet so that your husband, who is in a sexual relationship with another woman, will want to have sex with you? No. What you need to do is figure out why you’re still in this relationship…

he is a dick. I’m sorry, but he is. He’s acting like an asshole despite how it hurts you, and when you confront him with his hurtful behavior, he’s pinning it on YOU. My ex-husband did this to me when we were divorcing – “Well, maybe if you weren’t so ____ or ____, I wouldn’t have to look elsewhere!” This is emotional sadism of a particular hideous variety.

Oh, sweetheart, what? No. I don’t care if you’re supposedly so fat that you block out the sun – if he’s busy sleeping with other women and the only thing he’s learned how to do with his mouth is point out your supposed inadequacies, he’s doing it wrong…

Don’t be the fat girl losing weight to keep your man. It won’t work. Even when you lose the weight, you’ll be on the treadmill of trying to keep the weight off, or there will be something else – you don’t look young enough, he doesn’t like your style, you are so pushy, or your aren’t supportive enough, or something. You’ll never be good enough, because you already are good enough.

And there are some people, of course, who are encouraging her to lose weight “for herself” or “for her health” but even that’s getting shot down.

just like her not getting laid isn’t related to her size, our advice should also not be based on her size. she could be four feet tall and five hundred pounds and the advice would still be “hey, your hubby sounds like a jerk”…

Learn to love your body again — at any weight. I have little doubt that you are lovable and desirable as you are, whatever your partner’s moods and current predilections…whatever you do, work toward finding delight in yourself. Trying to do it for someone else is a dead end. Get right with your body as it is. Don’t fall into the well-baited trap of body-hate and self-loathing while you’re doing it. You deserve better.

I really really really really really hope she listens.

It’s got the universal man/woman icons on it, only the woman is bigger and it says “Team Player” underneath, the implication being that the guy wearing the shirt will “take one for the team” and chat up the fat friend so his bros can hit on the hot chick at the bar.

WTF! There are plenty of men for whom I am the one they WANT to hit on, the the bullet they take so their friend can get the hot girl. I *am* the hot girl! Stop opressing me with your douchebag t-shirts!

Intrigued by the tag “fat girl” on the shirt itself, I clicked it to see what other shirts were being offered. The pleasant surprise is that they were more positive than negative, with slogans like “Fat Girl Pride!” and “Everyone Loves A Fat Girl” outweighing (no pun intended) shirts like the misogynistic crap pictured here.

Still, check out this misogynistic crap. The whole discussion of “entering” is just gross in and of itself, and once again it’s both objectifying women and reinforcing the notion that certain women are societally “acceptable” to have sex with, and others are not.

Still, there’s always the amusing T-shirt reading, “Help, this FAT girl ate me!” Which would only make sense if written by a fat girl who wants to poke fun at the “skinny girl trying to get out” trope.

I was reminded of that conversation today when I was listening to Katy Perry’s “California Gurls” on the radio, and feeling vaguely oppressed by the lyrics. In case you don’t know the song, the chorus goes like this:

California girls
We’re unforgettable
Daisy Dukes
Bikinis on top
Sun-kissed skin
So hot
We’ll melt your Popsicle
Oh oh oh

Admittedly, this is a stupid thing to feel oppressed by. But growing up as a lifelong California girl, I was always conscious that I didn’t live up to the familiar stereotype. I grew up with the Beach Boys song, of course, and all the videos that showed what a California girl was “supposed” to look like, and it wasn’t me. I freckle instead of tan, my hair is brown instead of blonde, and I certainly am not the thin but busty girl in Daisy Dukes and a bikini (and usually white and blonde) rollerblading on Venice Beach, who is the typical “California girl.”

Probably only seven girls in the world meet all these qualifications (and one of them is Chrissy Snow from Three’s Company) but I didn’t really understand that at the time—I just felt like I wasn’t measuring up. I guess I was afraid I would let people down, in some weird way. (And by “people” I mean “heterosexual men” who, of course, must have an unlimited supply of stereotypically beautiful, scantily clad women to look at and imagine having sex with at all times.)

So, it was a childish fear, which my all-grown-up feminist brain can easily dispense with, but it resurfaced thanks to Katy Perry, and I figured it might be interesting to share it.

Here’s the video for “California Gurls,” which is admittedly pretty cute… but it also presents girls as objects—Katy Perry is naked in it, and one girl is literally unwrapped like a present, and they are decorated in candy (because they are intended to be consumed, after all), and Snoop Dogg raps about girls being “tan, toned, fit, and ready,” and the whole thing is, from a feminist standpoint, very problematic. I mean, “We’ll melt your Popsicle”? This song is addressed to men, and promising them sexual gratification with a wink. Which is kind of Katy Perry’s schtick, right? I mean, “I Kissed A Girl” is one of my favorite gym songs, but it’s still all “tee hee” about bisexuality, presumably because men think hot chicks kissing each other is hot.

Anyway. The point being, I was driving around thinking about this today, and wondering if anyone else had a similar story about something minor that nevertheless makes you feel somehow oppressed. And I’d also love to know if there are stereotypes about the people who live where you live—and if so, whether you live up to them or not.

First, Becky is mocked in front of her children by a group of men. I think this has happened to all fat women at one time or another:

I just had the most horrible experience. I am 39 and very overweight. I took my children 15 and 11 out for a lovely night out on the town. As i was walking with them 4 gentleman (not) starting laughing and made crude comments out loud so my children and i could hear with regard to my weight. I am so humiliated not just for me but for my children. WHY do these ugly people think its ok to make fun of overweight people like we have no feelings. I know i am fat. My kids know i am fat. Why is it so funny and what do they get out of humilating me and my children?

Anita shares from the unique perspective of a swinger:

Somewhat on the topic of internet dating, my husband and I are swingers. We participate in some internet swinger sites. This is a lifestyle that is based on sexual attraction. We are both fairly large folks. We make that clear upfront, and in our photos. Some people are attracted, some are not. You develop a fairly thick skin as a swinger – you’re going to be turned down as often as not, regardless of your size.

One thing you learn in that lifestyle is that you have no idea why someone turns you down. No doubt sometimes it’s size, but it can just as easily be any number of other factors. Could be your height, your age, your hair color (or lack of hair), or the fact that you remind them of their Aunt Martha. There are a few fairly common rules of swinger etiquette, including: If you’re turning someone down, a simple “No thanks, we aren’t interested” is the way to do it – no need to say why; and if you are the one being turned down, you don’t ask why – it really doesn’t matter.

My point being, it’s easy to blame rudeness on your size – and sometimes, that IS why people are rude. But not every time, and in the big picture, why they are rude or treat you badly doesn’t really matter. You can’t change how people feel about you, but you can control how you react to them.

Confidence is important, as you live your life – but if someone is determined to be an asshole to you, confidence isn’t going to change that.

Sarah finds that women are meaner about her skinny body than men are:

I’ve always been a skinny girl, im really tall really skinny long skinny arms and chicken legs, i eat normally and all im just plain skinny and not ‘good’ skinny. i have found that im mostly ignored by men, i have had a few negative comments from men and i think i could count them on one hand i remember at a bar waiting to buy a drink an older man turned to me and pretty much yelled in my face “why dontt you f’n eat something your digusting guys dont find that attractive” before walking off, i was pretty shocked, another time was my brother in law telling me i should eat a burger, but normally guys go for the curvier girls but arnt mean about it, most of the negative attention i get is from women. I feel very uncomfortable in a room full of women, i dont like going out, i even stress before work about what other women are going to say about my weight. I think im a nice person im pretty shy and uncomfortable about the way i look around others but i get seriously mean comments from women very often. women are very cruel to each other. friends have told me before that when they first met me they assumed i was a bitch because im skinny.. weird. im tired so this comments probably crappy and incoherent but yes we women can be a mean bunch.

Leslie used to be thin, and notices the difference now that she isn’t:

My size was never a big deal to me, until I realized how big of deal it was to everyone else. This was the most important thing – my weight.

I have come to notice a stark difference in men. First, men that I am not even interested in assume that I am desperate and want to date them so they feel like they must make it clear to me they are not interested. Even married men do this. One married guy told me that he did not cheat, but would consider it if I lost 50 lbs.

Another single guy who I think is a real loser in life, looked me up and down and told me he divorced his wife because she got fat.

Yet another man told me that being fat wasn’t my problem, it was merely the first indication to a man that I did not want to be “pleasing.” Yes, he told me that if I wanted to be “pleasing to a man,” I would lose the weight. This would indicate that I was agreeable and compliant. He even admitted he would date a thin crack whore over a fat woman who was perfect in every other way.

Fat men have rejected me in the dating world for being fat. Recently, I was fixed up with a much older man, who was also fat. We had a great time, we laughed, had an interesting conversation, we seemed to have a lot in common, but he doesn’t want a fat chick for a girlfriend. Apparently, I have all the other qualities he’s looking for in the dating world. The friend who fixed me up did so because she thought he’s such a great guy and not shallow at all.

None of my good qualities really matter (I’ve been told this by men), because they don’t really care about what I do for living, whether I’m successful or smart as hell. For the most part, men want someone to fuck and someone who is going to enhance their image.

I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but this has been my experience with men over 40. It doesn’t matter how confident I am, how well I am dressed, where I am or how I present myself, I am defined by my weight, and my value is greatly diminished by it. It isn’t even being invisible, it’s outright hostility.

There’s more from Leslie here, also well worth reading.

Alexa is judged mostly by her mother:

I’m petite, and since my teens I weighed 125 pounds, which is not actually overweight; but I wasn’t fit or curvy, so I didn’t carry it very well. My mother, who as long as I can remember has been quite overweight, never outright called me fat, but made it a point to ‘let me know’ what a shame it was that I was too heavy and thus not pretty/attractive enough any time my appearance was mentioned.

After a decade of this, I lost 15 pounds due to a pretty debilitating back problem that required surgery to treat, and in the year and a half since then every time I see her I’ve been hearing nothing but non-stop comments about how incredibly thin I am now and how wonderful it is. All of a sudden she has nothing but praise for me and thinks I’m the perfect daughter.

At first I was bothered, but after awhile I became outright disturbed every time she mentioned my weight. It’s like I never had any other value to her except for my perceived physical attractiveness according to her standards of beauty, and my finally being ‘thin’ now is so significant that it’s the only thing worth noting about me. This continues even after I’ve explained to her that, no, I didn’t go on any magical diet; I spent weeks being in excruciating pain every time I moved and therefore not being able to get up from the floor to eat enough to keep my body weight.

This week I saw her again, and she finally just said straight out that I used to be fat; clearly meaning that that’s a terrible thing to be, and what a relief it must be for me not to look so awful anymore. Yes mom, thanks so much for making it absolutely clear what you’ve really thought about me all these years.

Even besides the issue of how skewed someone’s perception has to be to consider that weight fat, there are no words to describe how offensive I think it is to say that a woman weighing 125 pounds = ugly = awful.

There are a lot more of thought-provoking posts in the comments. Thanks to everyone for continuing to share your experiences!

For its June 2010 issue, French Marie Claire has gone curvy with editorials featuring plus-size models in lingerie and swimsuits à la française–that’s right, only bottoms, no tops!

Of course, these are all models, so “plus-size” is like a size 10. I personally took a counterbalancing stroll through some wonderful recent pieces at Adipositivity. Mostly NSFW. Except this one, which I love. And this one!

It made me want to take my own half-naked pictures, even if I wouldn’t necessarily post them on the Internet for the world to see. But there’s so much beauty in all types of bodies. It really is lovely to be reminded of that.

Happy Friday!

In the same way as anorexics may have a distorted self-perception of being fat, some overweight and obese people fail to see their true plus-size selves, believing instead that they are a healthy weight, says British author Sara Bird, whose book documenting her experience with “fatorexia” was published in March… “When I looked in the mirror, I saw a confident thin person, when in fact I was obese,” says Bird,… At 240 pounds, she looked like the Pillsbury Doughboy with a head that appeared much too small for her body, she said.

Oh good. Another self-loathing reformed fat person. Looks like we’ll get more people helpfully informing us that we’re fat! Terrific! THAT’S JUST WHAT WE NEED.

So then movie critic Mick LaSalle “weighs” in on this “excellent” story!

A couple of weeks ago I got some nasty reaction to my review of JUST WRIGHT, the new Queen Latifah movie in which she is the romantic lead. She plays an average woman who becomes the love interest of an extremely desirable man — an NBA superstar who could presumably have absolutely anybody. In the most delicate terms imaginable, I questioned how the movie could present its hero’s attraction for (let’s just say it) an obese woman, without in some way accounting for the unusual nature of that attraction.

Yes, apparently, it’s COMPLETELY FUCKING CRAZY that someone could be attracted to the “obese” Queen Latifah. QUEEN LATIFAH! Who looks like this!

(His original review is actually, to give him credit that I would rather not give him, a bit more nuanced than this would suggest.) Still, he’s no Lindy West (the critic who wrote that scathing takedown of the new Sex and the City movie).

I know that neither Mick LaSalle nor Sara Bird is likely to listen when I say this, but allow me to repeat: FAT PEOPLE KNOW THEY’RE FAT. We really don’t need more shaming. A lack of shaming is not the problem here.

And also, Queen Latifah is hot.

2. Here is what you learn very early, as a young woman prone to fatness, even before puberty: My body is bad. My body is disgusting. My body is something for me to fight against. My body will not cooperate with my desire to be thin. My body is a disappointment to the people around me. I hate how all these studies and articles just assume as true that it is the natural order of things that fat girls will feel bad about themselves, as if this is, in fact, the proper way to view yourself when you are fat. No, this is not natural. This does not come from looking in the mirror. Girls are inculcated with messages that fatness is bad and that their bodies are their enemies. Loving your body is not option. That fatness-shame, combined with the puberty-shame of our puritanical, anti-woman, anti-sex culture, means that at the onset of puberty fat girls undergo deep, deep dissociation with their bodies. This happens to all kinds of girls, but especially fat girls.

There’s a lot more: go read! Especially teenagers and the teenager-adjacent. And let me know what you think.