Problem, Solutions
You may have heard about Dan Savage’s recent column about the man who has stopped being sexually attracted to his fat wife (perhaps you read The F Word‘s take on it)? In case you haven’t, here is the question in question.
My wife’s skin is a mess, she has dietary issues that cause gnarly gas, she eats bad food that causes her to gain weight. I always thought I was against the society-imposed, magazine-model, porn-star look girls are supposed to have. So it’s hard for me to admit that I’m not cool enough to think my wife is hot the way she is… She’s picking up on all of this, which is affecting her mood, self-esteem, and energy levels. And since she tends to eat more when things aren’t going well for us, this is creating a hugely negative feedback loop on the weight-and-lust fronts. When almost any girl you see is hotter to you than your wife… what the fuck do you do?
Here’s Savage’s answer:
[S]tart with complete honesty. It’s not that hard to say, “You have gotten fat and unattractive and my sex drive is nil, so can we do something about it before I bail on you?… Unless you take up jogging and lose 35 pounds, sweetie, I’m going to have a hard time being sexually excited about you.” The partner either laces up the running shoes or they waddle on with their life.
And here’s an alternate answer from Body Impolitic that I thought was worth pointing you to.
Start paying attention to what you do like about your wife; think about what hasn’t changed in the years when she’s gained weight. Do you like her laugh? Her sarcasm? Her way of buying treats for you? (If the advice comes from a sex columnist, it will include think about what you really like with that person in bed; most likely, that hasn’t changed, or hasn’t changed much.) Focus on those things, and your attraction will come back. It’s good advice, and it can work… So here’s what Dan Savage would never say: if you want to have a good sexual relationship with someone as s/he ages and changes shape, there are some very specific things you can do.
The entry goes on to list those things, and I found it interesting and thought provoking. So, what do you guys think: what would you tell this faithful but unattracted husband to do?
Posted by mo pie
A relationship based solely on physical attraction is a relationship that isn’t going to stand the test of time. There has to be more than that.
It’s possible that they DO have more going on between them, that this is just overshadowing them.
I think i would tell him that he has to learn how to talk to his wife. He needs to know how to confide in her, how to tell her what he’s feeling. If he doesn’t feel safe doing so, then they need to address the trust issues in their relationship. If he doesn’t feel comfortable talking with her about emotional issues, then they need to figure out why.
A good relationship isn’t easy, and requires a great deal of care and attention. You can’t just figure that once you’ve said your vows, you’re done. You hafsta keep taking care of it.
If she has health issues that are causing digestion problems, she needs to get to the root of that – not for the sating of his physical desires, but for her own health and well-being.
I have such little faith in human beings as a whole these days, i’m inclined to say that since they’re so incredibly incapable of figuring this shit out for themselves, they’ll probably munge it up in the process of trying to fix it. Translation: find a good marriage counselor. :P
My advice to him? Leave her. She deserves someone whose first thought when confronted with a relationship issue isn’t about his dick and the continued satisfaction thereof, but about how his wife is feeling and what he can do to make her happy.
I know that’s harsh, but I’ve been the fat woman in relationships with men like this jagoff. I stayed because I didn’t think I deserved any better, and hey, of course he finds me disgusting. Who wouldn’t? I should just be happy somebody is paying attention to me. Right????
Obviously, wrong. So let her go, you self-centered, shallow jackass. You aren’t worth the gnarly gas your wife emits.
“what would you tell this faithful but unattracted husband to do?
My answer:
MARRIAGE IS WORK, DUDE. It sounds like you are just looking for a magic button to push, and re-set her to some Barbie default.
Talk to your wife, not some columnist. Tell her your concerns–for her digestive problems, her self-esteem, and her energy levels. Show her some caring and concern. Share your doubts and insecurities with her, and allow her to do the same.
Also–take a good look at yourself. The chances are pretty good that you are not perfect.
Ottermatic – I’m with you on this. You should send that response in to Dan.
Thanks for the heds-up. I just sent Dan an e-mail, also posted on my Livejournal:
http://deeleigh.livejournal.com/7963.html
I like ottermatic‘s thoughts on the letter too, though. Staying with someone you’re not attracted to doesn’t do them any favors. It prevents them from finding someone who will be attracted to them. But, they’re married and not just dating, so breaking up before the issue has even been discussed?
…no.
It just seemed to me that Dan jumped on the weight issue, when it wasn’t the main concern raised in the original letter. Is it good to nag your partner about their eating and exercise habits? Maybe not, but those are things that a sensitive partner can influence without negativity. The weight thing? Not so much.
I agree with Ottermatic, he should leave her. He’ll still be an asshole, but at least he’ll be an asshole away from her.
I think he was hoping that Dan was just going to tell him to sleep with hotter people. Dan’s recommended cheating for other marriages before (one of the things I don’t like about him) and I think that’s what this dude really wants. But his wife doesn’t deserve that. He should just leave.
Usually, I love Dan Savage.
I read this on his site the other day. I told my spouse about the column, and told her that if we ever reached the point where she was disgusted by me physically, I’d prefer for her to just break up with me and tell me she wasn’t in love with me anymore. If she said what Savage advised this guy to say, I couldn’t stay with her, and the humiliation would be a burden to anyone I tried to be close to after that.
Dan Savage is always brutal like this. He’s even told people who find themselves no longer able bodied (as in they now have to use a wheelchair) “how many disabled/old/fat people have YOU dated?”
The truth is that no matter how much the letter writer works out himself — that’s a part of his problem with his wife, he’s hot and works out and gets hit on by men and women — his body will change, too. His own body will become less attractive than his own ideal.
The sad thing is, he probably will still have a woman who loves him in spite of this change.
I want to ask this guy what he means when he says he “loves” his wife. I use Heinlein’s definition (that you love someone when their welfare is essential to your own) when I say I love someone. But this guy seems to mean that he once lusted for her, has affection for her, and that he is dutiful toward her. When she’s hurting, his reaction is to go get stoned. Her welfare doesn’t seem to be his problem.
I think he needs to decide how much effort she’s worth to him. If she’s worth the trouble, he should do everything he can to help her be as healthy and happy as possible. If she’s not worth the trouble, he should can the crap about how much he “loved” her, and leave.
This is one of those topics that can dredge up a lot of emotions. I was in a relationship where things were great as long as I was thin but the guy bailed when i got fat. Actually, he started fucking around when I got fat. Eventually I got sick of it and bailed myself out (not soon enough).
I am now in a relationship with someone who finds me attractive and doesn’t care that I’m a size 16 (side note…..was a size 18 until recently. WW rules!). He knew me when I was 110lbs and a size 6 and tells me that I am still as beautiful now as I was then (something about my eyes and smile…nothing about my pants’ size!!!).
I’d say they need some serious marraige counseling in order to determine if the issues are purely weight related or if there is something deeper there. And she will defenitely need some therapy sessions of her own to deal with her emotional eating (especially if the marraige does end up falling apart).
Love….what a tricky game it can be!!!
Thanks for the Body Impolitic link, I really liked the positvity of it. The art of everyday life, beautiful. I understand that the guy maybe an arse, but it may also be a man under stress at his worst. I think Dan Savage did him and his wife a potential disservice, I hope he doesn’t act on it.
I also enjoyed you post on lj, deeleigh, trenchant indeed!
I’d be willing to bet that letter writer is no great prize himself. She’d be better off without him if he’s so shallow that it’s all about her appearance now. She deserves better.
Perfect answer, deeleigh. A week from now, when Dan writes his “Holy Christ, did you people send me a lot of mail about this” column — the thesis of which will no doubt be “You nasty fat people should be grateful I wasn’t meaner” — I wouldn’t be at all surprised to see your letter make the cut.
Well, the fact that he wrote the letter to Dan shows that he is at least concerned that he’s going to come off as a dick if he approaches his wife with any kind of “you are fat” talk.
I’m trying to be fair but I have to say, he still sounds like a snob to me. Anyone with this type of “problem” strikes me as someone who thinks they are pretty hot. I hate that! If I was TRULY worried that my husband/boyfriend was unhealthy and his low self esteem was hurting our sex life I would encourage him…gently. And really, I think I would just try to be a good example. If I think HE should work out, eat healthy, take vitamins, buy cute boxers…I should probably be doing the same or I should shut up about it. But I think the main problem here is that he isn’t comfortable talking to his wife in the frist place. HUGE red flag!
Instead of leaving her, he should find out what’s going on that’s making her this way. When I get depressed and down, I eat. I would hope that my husband would dig to see what is going on in my head rather kicking me to the curb.
I mostly agree with Teena, although I also think the guy does not sound like a good marital bet.
The woman in question sounds as though she’s under horrendous stress and is displaying related physical symptoms (the skin breakouts and IBS). He says she’s constantly exhausted, down, and comfort-eating. I have been there. Many of us have been there.
Basically, then, the guy should stop assuming it’s all about him, and try to find out what was causing the trouble in the first place, and then see what he can do to lighten her burdens and give her some time to recover and feel better.
Unless, of course, it does turn out to be all about him, in which case the answer is still the same; start being nicer!
Most of your responses put the woman in a victim situation–that’s probably also what she feels like. But that doesn’t mean that the husband is necessarily the victimizer and should be called names. We’re all visual creatures, men as much as women, and when we get married, we get married to the whole person, both mind and body (and the rest). Keeping that whole person together and, ideally, attractive for the other person is each partner’s portion of the shared marriage responsibility, so I’m finding it a bit unfair of some of you to call the husband names when it seems as if he’s trying to figure out how to keep the marriage going (otherwise, he’d already be gone). In other words, privileging mind over body whenever it’s convenient, and to construct a judgment based on that is just as wrong as privileging body over mind, in other words. Or can you say, with absolute certainty, that you’re more attracted to Michael Moore versus, say, George Clooney?
I guess I’m in the minority. I don’t think the letter writer is a jerk. It happens. In most relationships where you truly love and care for the person there are times when you are more attracted to them and times when you are less attracted to them.
Anyone who is jumping on the ‘leave her’ bandwagon is crazy. Talk to your spouse, tell her your thoughts in a sensitive and compassionate way. If neither partner can work it out for the benefit of the relationship (whether that means she gets healthier or he gets past it) then I think there is more to splitting up or going to counseling.
Marriage is not supposed to be disposable.
Okay, I just went over there and read this, and I hate to say it, but I agree with TMTYTJF up there. The husband doesn’t sound like as much of a jerk as it originally seemed…
… Dan Savage, on the other hand, can suck my left tit and die.
It sounds to me like the husband is so concerned about the way HE looks (“look at me! I’m in better shape than I ever have been! I’m so hot I can barely stand myself!!”) that he’s IGNORING his wife. He says he cleans. But what does that really mean? I think it was Jeff Foxworthy who said that if a man empties an ashtray, he considers himself to have cleaned something (okay, okay, so he’s a comedian and his job is to exaggerate things, but most men I know would fit that description to a ‘T’). He may THINK he’s being such a good, dutiful husband, but that doesn’t mean that his wife isn’t overcome by stress.
He SHOULD talk to his wife – he should ask her what’s wrong and why her habits have suddenly changed for the worst. He may be surprised at what she says. He may find out that he’s partially responsible for whatever’s going on with her (note I said partially responsible). But he’s never going to know what’s wrong until he asks.
And the fact is, it doesn’t matter how her habits have changed or what she looks like. Until they get to the heart of the matter of WHY she’s changed, nothing he says or does is going to help. And it may very well make things worse.
Charlotte, I think you missed the point here. Marriage vows are for worse too. You can’t just bail because you’re shallow all of a sudden. If he REALLY can’t stand standing up to his marriage vows now, he shouldn’t have gotten married in the first place. If all he cares about is “hot” chicks, he needs to stay a bachelor.
By the way, I would take Michael Moore over George Clooney. Mike is making an effort to get healthy anyway – inspired by his “Sicko” project.
If he REALLY can’t stand standing up to his marriage vows now
*If he REALLY can’t stand up to his marriage vows now.
Fixed it.
SHE should leave HIM.
Doesn’t he say something at the beginning of the article about the fact that she “supports me in all my endeavors, makes my life easier, all that stuff”?
If he doesn’t value that — you know, the stuff a working marriage is made of — over teh hawtness, he sure as s**t should enjoy the opportunity to get along without it.
Especially since he hasn’t bothered to ask her whether he might be doing something/lots of things/nothing to help her manage the marriage that might just trigger her overeating as a stress response.
Does she have time to go to the gym? Do they have punk rock kids? Does he help with the punk rock kids or the punk rock housework or managing the [expletive deleted] punk rock bills? Can she afford to eat food without excessive pesticides or simple starches on his punk rock salary???
He’s inauthentic. One of my friends wrote for the Ramones. The closest this dude gets to punk rock is that he has ROCKs in his head and he is a PUNK.
Actually, Sarah, I thought about this reply quite a lot, inspired by the work that my new husband and I are doing on our marriage. My point was that it takes two to tango–the husband *and* the wife– and both have equal responsibility to make the marriage work. This requires of the husband that, yes, he try to find out what is going on with his wife, but it also requires of her that she take responsibility for her declining health and her unhealthy behavior, as well. In other words, if this is supposed to be an equal opportunity marriage, then there are no free rides for either one, for better and for worse.
I think the husband wrote the letter looking for validation and support for what he had already decided to do – and he got it from Savage.
There’sMoreToYouThanJustFat said
True. Attraction does wax and wane as the years roll by. But commitment is commitment and you if you want the marriage to work, you try your hardest to make it work.
But this guy is basically saying that their relationship is in trouble because his wife has aged a little and put on some weight. In my opinion the ‘attractiveness’ issue is a furphy which serves the double benefit of both preventing him from dealing with actual (not invented) issues in the marriage and allowing him to blame its collapse on his wife.
I’ve reread the letter twice and I don’t think that the guy sounds like as big of a jerk as I did on first reading. I interpreted him as feeling guilty for feeling the way he does (as he should, IMO) — and wanting to fix it. Writing to an advice columinist is probably not the way I’D fix a “problem” like this, but there you go.
Don’t love Savage’s advice. As usual, he’s harsh, but the general theme of be honest doesn’t irk me that much. There’s a way for the husband to express concern without being such a dick. I think he needs to find out WHY her habits are changing and WHAT is causing the low self-esteem — it might be something she needs help with or talk about or whatever, or if it’s something he’s contributing to, he can try and change it.
I don’t think the guy is a jerk, though I do think he’s being shallow — he’s assuming his lack of attraction to his wife is due to her weight gain, because why wouldn’t it be? But it seems likely to me that she’s changed in a lot of ways, what with the eating habit change (which is abrupt and not typical) and the apparent health problems. I bet he’s reacting to something well beyond weight, and that if she had put on 20 pounds and stayed her usual self he wouldn’t have a problem. (Or if he did, then he might be a jerk — presumably decent people fall in love with someone for reasons more lasting than looks, which will ALWAYS change.) He’s just not thinking very deeply about his feelings, and pinning them on weight instead of investigating them.
I think he does need to be honest — with himself. He needs to figure out what his problem, or what their problem, really is. Going up to someone and saying “change your body, and change it permanently, or I’m out of here” is not only offensive and counterproductive but probably wouldn’t even help things anyway. Savage phoned this one in because it didn’t occur to him that the fattie might have feelings.
I love Dan to pieces, but I obviously disagree with him on some of the answers.
In this case, he obviously hasn’t gotten the point. I’m not one for staying with someone that you can’t be sexually attracted to, and in my feeling this woman deserves better if she truly is OK with being larger and he’s not. Some people are- but from the man’s description, I don’t get the feeling that his wife is one of them. I think it sounds like she’s depressed and she is using food to ease that depression, and I think the husband realizes this- but he needs to be more sensitive about it, instead of thinking of it in terms of how unattractive she’s become because of it. He needs to examine, for one, whether or not this is truly why he is feeling like he’s not attracted to her- is it really because she’s fat now, or is it because she’s depressed? Or, even worse, is he just sick of her? Does he still love her? Dan just doesn’t address any of that.
Hubby boy needs to stop focusing on the fat and focus on the depression behavior and help his wife- learn how to talk to her and find out if there are other problems. And then help her through- that is part of his obligation as a hubby.
Also, is it just me, or when you read things like this do you always start to wonder how much weight the person writing has gained? I always think “You’re talking about your partner gaining and changing since you met them, but have you changed?”
Again, I don’t think you should stay in a relationship if you’re not happy, but I also think it’s important to really figure out why you aren’t happy, and to see if there’s something that could change- because why throw it away if you really have something good that just has a little snag?
Here’s the thing: Savage is a sex advice columnist, not a marriage or relationship counselor. My reading of the original letter makes me think that the writer is looking for permission to cheat on his wife, basically. He starts with how much he loves her, how he treats her, how she’s “let herself go,” then asks question after leading question ending with “What the fuck do you do?” about not being attracted to his wife, being attracted to others, getting hit on, being “hawt” (complete with the HARD acronym at the end, ugh), etc.
So, yeah, I think the guy is a dick, because he’s trying to set up a scenario where he “deserves” to cheat on his wife.
As far as Dan’s response goes, while it’s not exactly nice, he’s responding to the subtext, I think, and putting the responsibility back on the guy for being honest with his wife, rather than giving him carte-blanche to be a cheating bastard.
When you talk about ‘free rides’ Charlotte, I think you illustrate one of the more pernicious aspects of the obesity crisis, that fat people are beind carried by society, WRONG.
It’s also the reason why I’m prepared to cut him some slack, it’s offered constantly as to blame for everything that anytime anything goes wrong, weight seems to pop up.
In a sense the most telling part of his letter is that fact that he said she has always been there for him and helped him with his goals, and now she has let herself go! Exactly! That happens to so many, especially women, they pour their heart and soul into the loved one, not counting the cost and then all of a sudden, they’re running on empty. His remedy is to get stoned because he’s down on himself for not fancying his wife. He’s noticing now of course, because she’s plumper, nice! Well stop smoking shit and stop the self pity, and be there for the woman that gave and didn’t count the cost.
There’s no question Savage was brutal. Not too many relationships would stand that kind of obnoxious challenge, but the reality is a partner that lets them self go, is a problem to many of us, and it should be. This happens to both men and women, and before I get blasted, I too am fighting a daily battle with the middle-age spread.
Extra weight changes your self-esteem and energy level, plus it puts your health at risk. Those changes WILL impact a relationship.
Why should a partner who works at maintaining their body and health, for their own sake and the benefit of their partner, have to just put up with a partner who has taken love for granted and let it all go? As others have suggested, relationships ARE work. Not taking yourself and your partner for granted is a big part of that.
Why should one have to pretend sexual attraction that no longer exists because there’s no good way to say “honey, you look like a tank and we just aren’t a good fit in bed anymore?”
Yes, age changes us all, and yes, busy stressful lives make staying fit a challenge, but it is possible, and it is genuinely necessary. Keep in mind that our choices impact directly the lessons learned by our children on these subjects. Fat parents = fat kids.
So for lots of reasons, I say you should be able to say “honey, you need to get a handle on this, what can I do to help?”
Now if anyone can find a way to say it so it doesn’t sting, let me know.
YES! I never understand why people thought George Clooney was so hot.
Ick, no. People change, physically and emotionally, as they age. They get wrinkles, they often gain weight, and they generally look less and less like the ideal as they age, and mentally, who wants to be the same at 40 as they were at 25? When you marry someone, you have to expect that someday they might be fat and old and not the hawt little thing they might be today. A marriage has to grow and adapt as the couple changes. If you’re not up for growing and adapting as your partner ages and changes then you really shouldn’t get married.
Check out this week’s column – Dan is retracting his “bad advice” and will be printing letters on the subject next week. :) I bet a bunch of commenters will be among those quoted!
love is such a beautiful thing and i find it sad that some people can base it on something so shallow. :(
Wow, big surprise, A bunch of fatasses saying what a jerk the guy is for being disgusted by his PIG of a wife. Seriously, IT TAKES WORK TO BECOME 300 LBS OF LARD.
That applies to men too, don’t think I’m picking on you ladies. I’ve had weight problems myself, and know all it takes is the TINIEST AMOUNT OF EFFORT to not become a big fatass. If you dont respect yourself enough to be healthy, HOW DARE YOU expect anyone else to?
Wow, even BIGGER surprise, a fat hating troll. Not bothering to read what we actually say, you make what you imagine we think, like your kind always do. It takes minimal effort to read but somehow you never quite manage it, it seems you’re not quite as fit as you boast, another trait of your kind. You all speak the same use the same words in the same order, why don’t you try reading a book to extend your vocabulary, or maybe use a thesaurus? You vile ‘views’ could actually attain some wit and grace and you could get the much needed self-respect you get from not being a self deluded, lazy BORE.
I’m sure we’ll hear more from you, not you personally necessarily, you are not distinct, you are just one of a group of non-entities you are willingly brainwashed. We here DARE to stand up to mob rule, if you can’t handle that, buzz off.
hi, i came here by chance. my spouse has gained over 100 lbs. over the several years we’ve been together. my children call him names like fatty behind his back. it’s stressful. when i see him with his clothes off, it makes me cringe. i feel like he doesn’t value exercise and healthy eating. it makes me wonder what i was attracted to in the first place. i feel shallow and guilty. i have a low sex drive, after four children, but i even find myself looking at other men, skinnier, better looking. i think, why me? i can relate to the jerk who wrote the letter. but, like me, he and his wife may not click in other ways. this is just a symptom. it sounds like he really doesn’t love his wife. i know because i don’t think i love my husband after much self questioning. he’s not a jerk, maybe i’m not either, but personalities have to mesh.
I can totally relate to this whole thread. I am 6’2″ 250lb male. My wife is a lot bigger. She won’t say how big, cuts tags off clothes, lies on anything she must disclose her weight on. When we dated before marriage and 2 kids I told her I was a little shallow, and joked that if she hit 350 I’d have to leave her…it was a joke! She was hot, but never skinny. Niether am I, but being a visually stimulated guy, I can’t get excited sexually looking at her without ED medicine. Every time I try to talk about working on it together she gets insulted and we end up having an argument. The lack of sex drive sucks, I just can’t get turned on by a fat woman, even though I’m not a svelt stud either. I love my wife and don’t want to hurt or leave her, but the sexual revulsion I feel doesn’t go away. How can I “fix” it?
YUCK.
I feel for this guy so bad. I too have a disgustingly fat girlfriend who wasn’t always a plumper. She used to be hot when we first met almost 4 years ago. Now she weighs 70 pounds extra…so many rolls. I have not had sex with her in over 6 months because it is not appealing to me. I walk through the city and quite literally 99% of every woman who passes by looks hotter than my gf…that is sad, very sad, depressing. Everything else is great about her….I just can’t get my dick up because she weighs way too damn much. She eats VERY unhealthy foods, no fruits or veggies, does not excercise. I’m so sad :(
^_O a little harsh but I can relate to you and others. My wife of 10 years is getting on the heavy side and despite efforts to reverse the weight gain, she keeps gaining more weight. Though we still have a fantastic sex life I don’t believe it will continue if she doesn’t lose weight soon because I am finding it more and more difficult to be sexually attracted to her.
*sigh*
So you have both a wife of 10 years with whom you have great sex, and a girlfriend of 4 years for whom you can’t get it up? What a crazy coincidence!
Also, banned. Man, that was dumb.
Amazing……….just amazing…..how men and women can look beyond the most important part of a relationship, love and base it upon weight. Once you find love and that communication opens up you can discuss anything and help each other through anything even weight issues. I am 5’4 and gained 60 lbs with my pregnancy. My husband never told me I was fat, but encouraged me that all will be well when I delivered. To make a long story short, I stayed “chunky” but because I loved my husband so much and cared about being around until our elder years together WE worked out together and motivated each other to eat right. Of course our love making has improved as well as our ability to communicate. Until you men learn to use the most important organ, your HEART(not the one down south) will you ever be happy.
wow, what is wrong with you people! are any of you educated? all men desire beatiful women, not a fat ass! he comes on to the site for help, which means he is looking for help to save his marriage! and all you people just blame him for his wife’s weight issues!! that is not his body, he doesnt force the food down her throat, he doesnt sit on the couch and do little exercise, its her reponsiblity to stay attractive,! she has choosen to be a lazy fat ass. you keep saying married thats two people, she has failed to stay attractive and its his right as a husband to move on if he isnt happy!! if she gave a crap about her marriage it would have never come to this issue! I am sick and tired of the fat spouse not taking responisiblity for the actions and blaming everyone and every thing (enviroment,thyroid,diets,doctors,ect) but themselves!!!!!
It’s cute how the MFS guys are way more diligent about reading the full archives of fat blogs than I am.