Follow Up: How Do Strangers Treat You?
One of our most commented posts ever is the “how do strangers treat you?” post linked in the sidebar. It’s been two years, and we keep getting responses that are so thoughtful and represent such a range of experience. I wanted to post some of the recent ones.
First, Becky is mocked in front of her children by a group of men. I think this has happened to all fat women at one time or another:
I just had the most horrible experience. I am 39 and very overweight. I took my children 15 and 11 out for a lovely night out on the town. As i was walking with them 4 gentleman (not) starting laughing and made crude comments out loud so my children and i could hear with regard to my weight. I am so humiliated not just for me but for my children. WHY do these ugly people think its ok to make fun of overweight people like we have no feelings. I know i am fat. My kids know i am fat. Why is it so funny and what do they get out of humilating me and my children?
Anita shares from the unique perspective of a swinger:
Somewhat on the topic of internet dating, my husband and I are swingers. We participate in some internet swinger sites. This is a lifestyle that is based on sexual attraction. We are both fairly large folks. We make that clear upfront, and in our photos. Some people are attracted, some are not. You develop a fairly thick skin as a swinger – you’re going to be turned down as often as not, regardless of your size.
One thing you learn in that lifestyle is that you have no idea why someone turns you down. No doubt sometimes it’s size, but it can just as easily be any number of other factors. Could be your height, your age, your hair color (or lack of hair), or the fact that you remind them of their Aunt Martha. There are a few fairly common rules of swinger etiquette, including: If you’re turning someone down, a simple “No thanks, we aren’t interested” is the way to do it – no need to say why; and if you are the one being turned down, you don’t ask why – it really doesn’t matter.
My point being, it’s easy to blame rudeness on your size – and sometimes, that IS why people are rude. But not every time, and in the big picture, why they are rude or treat you badly doesn’t really matter. You can’t change how people feel about you, but you can control how you react to them.
Confidence is important, as you live your life – but if someone is determined to be an asshole to you, confidence isn’t going to change that.
Sarah finds that women are meaner about her skinny body than men are:
I’ve always been a skinny girl, im really tall really skinny long skinny arms and chicken legs, i eat normally and all im just plain skinny and not ‘good’ skinny. i have found that im mostly ignored by men, i have had a few negative comments from men and i think i could count them on one hand i remember at a bar waiting to buy a drink an older man turned to me and pretty much yelled in my face “why dontt you f’n eat something your digusting guys dont find that attractive” before walking off, i was pretty shocked, another time was my brother in law telling me i should eat a burger, but normally guys go for the curvier girls but arnt mean about it, most of the negative attention i get is from women. I feel very uncomfortable in a room full of women, i dont like going out, i even stress before work about what other women are going to say about my weight. I think im a nice person im pretty shy and uncomfortable about the way i look around others but i get seriously mean comments from women very often. women are very cruel to each other. friends have told me before that when they first met me they assumed i was a bitch because im skinny.. weird. im tired so this comments probably crappy and incoherent but yes we women can be a mean bunch.
Leslie used to be thin, and notices the difference now that she isn’t:
My size was never a big deal to me, until I realized how big of deal it was to everyone else. This was the most important thing – my weight.
I have come to notice a stark difference in men. First, men that I am not even interested in assume that I am desperate and want to date them so they feel like they must make it clear to me they are not interested. Even married men do this. One married guy told me that he did not cheat, but would consider it if I lost 50 lbs.
Another single guy who I think is a real loser in life, looked me up and down and told me he divorced his wife because she got fat.
Yet another man told me that being fat wasn’t my problem, it was merely the first indication to a man that I did not want to be “pleasing.” Yes, he told me that if I wanted to be “pleasing to a man,” I would lose the weight. This would indicate that I was agreeable and compliant. He even admitted he would date a thin crack whore over a fat woman who was perfect in every other way.
Fat men have rejected me in the dating world for being fat. Recently, I was fixed up with a much older man, who was also fat. We had a great time, we laughed, had an interesting conversation, we seemed to have a lot in common, but he doesn’t want a fat chick for a girlfriend. Apparently, I have all the other qualities he’s looking for in the dating world. The friend who fixed me up did so because she thought he’s such a great guy and not shallow at all.
None of my good qualities really matter (I’ve been told this by men), because they don’t really care about what I do for living, whether I’m successful or smart as hell. For the most part, men want someone to fuck and someone who is going to enhance their image.
I am sure there are exceptions to the rule, but this has been my experience with men over 40. It doesn’t matter how confident I am, how well I am dressed, where I am or how I present myself, I am defined by my weight, and my value is greatly diminished by it. It isn’t even being invisible, it’s outright hostility.
There’s more from Leslie here, also well worth reading.
Alexa is judged mostly by her mother:
I’m petite, and since my teens I weighed 125 pounds, which is not actually overweight; but I wasn’t fit or curvy, so I didn’t carry it very well. My mother, who as long as I can remember has been quite overweight, never outright called me fat, but made it a point to ‘let me know’ what a shame it was that I was too heavy and thus not pretty/attractive enough any time my appearance was mentioned.
After a decade of this, I lost 15 pounds due to a pretty debilitating back problem that required surgery to treat, and in the year and a half since then every time I see her I’ve been hearing nothing but non-stop comments about how incredibly thin I am now and how wonderful it is. All of a sudden she has nothing but praise for me and thinks I’m the perfect daughter.
At first I was bothered, but after awhile I became outright disturbed every time she mentioned my weight. It’s like I never had any other value to her except for my perceived physical attractiveness according to her standards of beauty, and my finally being ‘thin’ now is so significant that it’s the only thing worth noting about me. This continues even after I’ve explained to her that, no, I didn’t go on any magical diet; I spent weeks being in excruciating pain every time I moved and therefore not being able to get up from the floor to eat enough to keep my body weight.
This week I saw her again, and she finally just said straight out that I used to be fat; clearly meaning that that’s a terrible thing to be, and what a relief it must be for me not to look so awful anymore. Yes mom, thanks so much for making it absolutely clear what you’ve really thought about me all these years.
Even besides the issue of how skewed someone’s perception has to be to consider that weight fat, there are no words to describe how offensive I think it is to say that a woman weighing 125 pounds = ugly = awful.
There are a lot more of thought-provoking posts in the comments. Thanks to everyone for continuing to share your experiences!
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Fatism, Feminism, Meta, Question, Sex & Romance
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Wow some of those stories are crazy. I can’t believe it.
“i remember at a bar waiting to buy a drink an older man turned to me and pretty much yelled in my face ‘why dont you f’n eat something your digusting guys dont find that attractive'”
Dont’cha just love those guys who have decided they know the exact traits their entire gender finds attractive? So weird.
Alexa’s comment reminded me that while I thankfully don’t take grief from strangers for being fat, I do always notice how people lose their minds if I lose weight. I was training for a half marathon last year (a fat jogger, who’d have thought!) and naturally lost some weight during my training. Maybe about 20 pounds, which isn’t a lot for me considering how much I weigh (about 300).
I heard from everyone how FANTASTIC I looked and how I needed to “keep it up!” and all this. It wasn’t about how far I could run (I got up to 7 miles at a time before I got plantar fascitis and had to drop out of the training), just that I had gotten a little thinner, and this was apparently the world’s greatest achievement.
In my early 20s I lost 100 pounds and you’d have thought I cured cancer. People, especially people who hadn’t seen me in a while, absolutely went nuts over me every time they saw me.
Like many fat women I sometimes wish I could lose all that weight again, but the thought of dealing with all those compliments is actually a negative for me. You just want to say “what was so wrong with how I looked *before*?”
Wow some of those stories are crazy. I can’t believe it.
I find discrimination against thin people to be particularly frustrating, as a lot of people who do it seem to be under the impression that it’s somehow flattering or helpful. I also hear fat people doing it all the time, sometimes the very people who berate themselves for their size and complain that they should eat less. Sigh, if people would accept themselves they might accept others, and if people would accept others, they might accept themselves.
My friend and I can totally relate to Alexa. My best friend is a size 2 and I’m a 16. We are both constantly judged by our own mothers. My mom is always saying that something I’m wearing looks too tight or that I should lose a few pounds. This was even after I had already lost 30 pounds and 3 dress sizes. Whenever she buys clothes for me, they’re way too big because she thinks that’s how big I am. She’s just never satisfied with the way I look and it pisses the hell out of me.
My friend’s mom is always saying now that her daughter needs to diet since she recently grew from a size 0/1. She doesn’t need to diet, she’s perfectly healthy. Her mom actually teases her when she tries something on and its a little tight. It might just be playful joking but she gets really upset when she tells me about it. I’m constantly reminding my friend that she’s not fat because her mother has damaged her self esteem so much. This is the kind of stuff that drives people to eating disorders so I have to keep showing her how wrong her mother is.
It’s so sad that there are always going to be people out there who hate the way you look no matter what size you are.
Yes, I see the “fat women are desperate” prejudice all the time. My godmother is large and since she has a nice face and a large chest, sleazy men hit on her all the time. Even though I consider her way out of their league, in terms of age, style, intelligence, politeness, and pretty much everything, she’s supposed to be flattered by them talking to her like she’s a whore? Men.
And I noticed a significant LACK of interest after I lost weigh, because supposedly I no longer look like I have low self-esteem. My self-esteem is still low, but standoffishness is interpreted as shyness when you’re fat and snobbery when you’re thin. As if we all have the exact same personalities depending only on our weights.
what a great post. This is really interesting.
I am amazed at how differently people treat me based on how I look. I recently dyed my hair black (from red) and suddenly some people are skirting around me, making room for me. Meanwhile, super indie/alternative girls are giving me this little smile, like we’re part of this secret club. I’m getting checked out by a different sort of guy, and girls with their boyfriends are giving me furious looks even if their dudes aren’t looking at me. SO WEIRD. I feel like I’ve sudden;y become the villian.
Hmm…when it comes to my fat, I think…I don’t know. I think my weight sort of functions as a buffer. I’ve noticed strangers don’t really comment on me, but whether that’s because I’m not fat “Enough” or that I’m acceptable “enough” or maybe it’s because I would snap back if they tried anything. Maybe they can sense it? I don’t know.
Either way, I’ve found my weight has sort of functioned as a buffer for losers. My conventionally hotter friends will constantly be hit on by total jerkwads who will not get the idea to BACK OFF. Almost every time I’ve been hit on, a polite “no thankyou” and they will accept it with good grace. The people who hit on me are also more likely the sort to treat me like a person, not a hot piece of arm candy for them to go home with.
It’s interesting because I can’t get into other people heads. I wonder if how I’m treated is more to do with other factors, like that I’m white, or confident, or strangely dressed, or obviously female, or able bodied, or girly, or muscular, or that I’m with people. I don’t know if fat is the defining feature or not.
I will deifnitely have to take more notice form now on.
I definitely had a wake up call in going from thin to fat. You actually don’t realize all the “free stuff” the world give you when you’re thin until you’re fat and the goodies stop rolling in. I’m losing weight for a multitude of reasons, but I have a very, very different view of the world now than I had a decade and many pants sizes ago. One is that being thin does not entitle you to anything. The other is that you cannot make any assumptions about a person based on how large they are.
I noticed a difference when I went from a size 24 to a 16 a couple of years ago. Still fat, but closer to acceptable, I guess. Salespeople were nicer to me (I guess before I wasn’t worth their time because they didn’t carry my size…like I don’t wear jewelry or buy gifts?) and I didn’t get the same dirty looks when I sat down on the subway.
As I’ve gained some of that weight back, I’m noticing a slight shift to the before. I guess the difference is my attitude. I don’t really care anymore if people don’t like me for my weight. That’s their problem, not mine. Oh, and I’ll sit wherever I damn well please on the subway, thanks.
Also, please don’t take this the wrong way…but has anyone else noticed a specific racial/ethnic trend to the sorts of guys that hit on them? I definitely have, and I’m not sure if it’s a trend toward the group being the guys who would hit on anyone on the street, or being the group that is more attracted to larger women. I’m not saying anything to stereotype, I’m just making an observation based on my own day-to-day experiences.
Also, hanging out a car window and giving a thumbs up is not appropriate or effective flirting strategy. I should have given a thumbs down in return, but I wasn’t thinking fast enough.
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I do recall getting some flack from people when I was at Disneyworld in a ECV. There were a few cast members that treated me as if I should know I don’t deserve to use an ECV, and I should be walking.
I don’t know also if they had me wait in line with the ECV because they felt I wasn’t authentically handicapped, and I should wait in line like everyone else. Which is fine, except it’s harder to turn tight corners with those ECVs, than it is to turn one in Super Mario Kart.
I did complain later on, but I don’t really like using the ECV anyways, it’s not worth the stress of morons thinking you’re a sideshow attraction for them to point and laugh at. I did however gain a new appreciation for the fact, that I had a choice in the matter. I also learned to be more respectful of people in wheelchairs, because I had a taste of what it’s like to be seen as a burden/freak to strangers.
So overall I guess what I learned from it was positive, but I think it’s also BS that it happened. That also when I went to talk about it on a Disney forum, they all said being fat isn’t a disability, you had no right to the ECV ect.
There also was a kid who jumped in front of the ECV and I keep thinking, how sweet it would have been to roll over his foot. >:) I mean, what idiot thinks jumping in front of a moving vehicle is a good idea. His sister apologized, but really people just can’t go on the rides, and have a good time. It’s freaking Disneyworld, and the morons still aren’t stimulated or interested in what’s around them enough, to lay off the bullying for the time they’re there?
Oh, one more thing, I also met a lot of really nice and supportive fat people there. I do as well, when my sister uses the ECV. She is much more patient than I am about it, I don’t know maybe she has less anxiety when being confronted by people, so she doesn’t go into fight mode like I would. It might also make a difference that she rents a ECV from a company, rather than renting one at the park. Since people think the ECVs should only be used by people who appear significantly disabled.
I’m not going to say Disney really can do much about this, other than training their employees more on sensitivity regarding this issue. The park is wonderful, it just seems there are so many people who think they have a right to judge others. I don’t want people to be soured on the idea of going to Disneyworld, most of the time they are very fat friendly. They have private rooms for testing to see if you can fit into the seat of a ride, to prevent embarassment in front of other park goers.
It’s just you can’t change the world, so they’re honestly doing the best they can. I also think it might be the cast members I had a problem with were newbies, since it was after hours that you get when you stay on the grounds at a Disney hotel. My mom said they might use that time, to test out the new cast members.
Sigh, I so can relate and I am only a UK size 12 (am actually German, but I guess size 40 would not ring a bell with anyone)…anyhoo, me and my flatmate decided to walk around our neighbourhood after Germany beat Argentina and everyone was in a happy mood and random strangers sang songs with us…when we turned a corner 2 guys and a girl came up and one of the guys started singing in our direction “You have a weight problem” and the other guy answered “Who?” and after we passed they said “oh god yeah totally”. I felt totally horrible about that and asked myself what those guys get out of it. It’s seriously disturbing.
just stumbled upon this site, and all I want to say is as a 51 yr old average weight male, I love big curvy women, thy are my prefered body type and I will go out of my way to meet up with someone who is intellegent, humourous, interested in sex and large!
James –
Nice sentiment, but fat women are always getting that type of comment, too. Can we just make this NOT ABOUT OUR BODIES?! Women are more than our pants/dress sizes. And our bodies don’t look the way they do because we want to “please men” (refer to previous story in this post). You personally are still objectifying women’s bodies despite your perceived compliment. It’s great to know that men are out there who love large ladies, but wouldn’t it be better to just know that there are men who love women for WHO THEY ARE, not for what they look like, regardless of the traits they find attractive?
I am a semi-professional dancer, and people tell me I’m good (not going to toot my own horn here). When I was more overweight, I auditioned for a part and did not get it.
I knew I did very well at the audition and was even a better dancer than the people I was auditioning for. I suspected the reason I was rejected was my weight, but I had no way to be sure. Some of the members of this group were skinny girls who were a terrible dancers.
I’ve since lost a lot of weight, and the people who rejected me before are making it a point to come up to me and gush about how great I look.
Since then I’ve honestly changed my mind about working with them and wouldn’t take the job if they offered it to me. Why would I want to work with people who are focusing on looks rather than the quality of the dance, which is the most important thing to me?
The entertainment world is unabashedly shallow. I’ve seen calls for auditions that specifically exclude people over a certain weight. It’s hard for me to blame them entirely because they are selling a product (dancing girls), and most American audiences won’t pay to see overweight dancing girls. However, as someone who takes my art seriously, it’s hard for me not to get angry when people focus on body size and disregard the quality of the performance.
Even though it can be difficult, I force myself to participate in performance art. It is a thrill for me and a vehicle of personal growth.
FWIW, I’m glad I met my husband while I was overweight. I know that he loves me for me. Most people out there are shallow.
people are so f*()ing rude its unbelievable
i used to be very skinny. I was not very attractive skinny to men either (men usually like skinny and curvy, not skinny skinny). I got all these bitchy comments from women about how I needed to eat. Sometimes people would ask me outright if I was anorexic.
Now I am curvy. I am one of those women that has the “ideal” body i guess, thin with big boobs and such. Now i get comments like ‘she has a hot body, but not a hot face”. I’m not even terribly ugly by the way, I just don’t have a glamorous face. I still have the skinny face I used to have, thin lips with flat cheekbones. It’s not like I’m purposefully going out of my way to insult people with my hot body and ugly face, there is nothing you can do about your face (well, I could get cheekbone implants, but that’s a little ridiculous.
There is really no way to win in this terrible fucking society. If you have an ugly body people will criticize you. IF you have an ugly face people will criticize you. If you are perfect noone will criticize you but you will get hit on by assholes and likely be more prone to sexual predators.
Its also true that you cant judge on the outside. Fat men can be more judgmental of fat women than skinny men. You really have to get to know the person inside to figure out who’s an asshole or not.
Good luck everyone, don’t let these assholes cramp your style.