Plus Size Nightclubs: Are You Pro or Con?
We’ve talked about the separate-but-equal thing in fashion, but have we talked about it in the wider world, in social situations? Because here we have an article on Plus-Size Nightclubs–night clubs that are, as perhaps indicated by the term “plus-size nightclub,” set up and run specifically for plus-size patrons.
“When you’re not what they consider ideal, you know, and you’re out there trying to get your dance on at those other places, you get the looks, the stares. But not here. Everything’s accepted here,” says Vanessa Gray of Long Beach, an attractive 30-something woman who acknowledges jovially that after giving birth to three children, “I’ve got a little more meat on my bones.”
There are several hands here: on the one of them, I love the idea of a safe place to go, at which you feel absolutely accepted, and in control of other people’s reactions, that you are with peers and being evaluated by a set of criteria that includes your very specific kind of beauty (because let’s face it, night clubs are pretty much all about being checked out. And dancing. But mostly being checked out.). And it’s lovely to have a place to go and not be afraid to be as totally you and gorgeous as possible, without fearing that you might be torn down.
Here’s the other hand, though–it seems a little bit like hiding, to me. Because, okay, the ideal is, as per The National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance, to advocate “that everyone be treated equally regardless of size,” because “we don’t live in a one-size-fits-all world.” It seems to me that so much fat prejudice is saying “we don’t want to have to look at you,” and a plus-size nightclub is essentially saying “well, okay, we’ll just go hide over here, then, where you don’t have to see us.”
Not to get on my soapbox (I can see your house from here!), but the way to change the perception of fat people, isn’t it to have more visibility–not only more covers in magazines, more photoshoots, more plus size models, but more average, every-day women being visible, beautiful, unashamed of their bodies, dressing up, not hiding out, and going out and being unabashedly, unashamedly, unapologetically themselves? To flirt and dance and do the things that maybe sometimes feel a little dangerous?
Or maybe someone has done that thing where they have suddenly and with astonishment noticed the incredibly economically powerful plus-size market and have jammed their straw right into the heart of it and are greedily sucking it down dry!
So I’m torn. Tell me what you think of plus-size nightclubs–safe haven, hidey-hole, brilliant cash-generatingĀ scheme, or something else altogether? And then, let’s put on sequinned tube tops and go dancing.
Posted by jenfu
Filed under: Advocacy, Cold Hard Cash, Fat Positive, Personal, Politics, Question
I want to go to that night club. Just a few days ago, because of this club being featured on another site, I was talking to my husband about where I could go to feel comfortable dancing in public. Lets face it, some of us don’t have the power (or emotional energy) to deal with nasty comments on our night out. I wish there was one in the Twin Cities. I would go every weekend.
I think this is a great idea. Finally, ONE place in the world where I could feel comfortable and not judged! What a boon! It’s not hiding, it’s defining a safe place for oneself. FA can go on everywhere else in the world, why shouldn’t one place exist where I don’t have to feel like the size of my body is a political statement, either pro- or anti-FA?
I love the idea of a safe place to go and have fun, luckily I live in Edmonton Alberta where there is a large club called suburbs. We were there a while back and it is the only club I have ever been in where everyone was accepted as they were. We saw a girl in fairy wings, a guy that sort of looked like a fur trader, every variation on body size and type all having fun out on the floor. Apparently it is the largest club of its type in Canada! We need more places like that.
This is OT and I’ve probably said it before, but I hate when people use the “I’ve had x kids” disclaimer about their weight. People are fat for a whole variety of different reasons; thanks for perpetuating the myth that it’s somehow more acceptable to be fat if you’ve had kids. Next time I’m in a position to qualify or apologize for my weight or whatever, I’d like to say “Well sure I’m not the swimsuit model I used to be since I’ve given birth to two masters and a phd.”
First of all, I love the word hidey-hole. It seems like a euphemism.
Second, I’m okay with plus-sized clubs. It’s where I met my wife. I think some women, especially those new to Fat Acceptance, need these kinds of establishments as a sort of stepping stone to self-acceptance. Going to a place where they know they won’t be laughed at (at least not for being fat… bad dancing is another story) may give them the confidence they need to eventually go to “normal” dance clubs and get their groove on despite the stares.
I don’t think separate-but-equal is bad, unless it is the *only* option available, as it was with segregation in the South. Fat women can still go to “normal” clubs if they wish, but for those who are sick of the negative attention, they can socialize in a more comfortable setting.
Who knows, maybe the plus-sized clubs will become so popular that skinny people will be standing in line just to get in. Us fatties are pretty damned cool, ya know.
Peace,
Shannon
p.s. I just want to say that I love how you guys approach issues like these. You open it for dialogue, rather than being definitive. I really enjoy your blog. Keep up the great work!
Peace,
Shannon
I’m not a nightclub kind of girl, but I think that these places might help give not-so-secure, plus-size women the confidence they need so as to feel freer to be their fat, sassy selves in more public spaces.
I blogged about plus size clubs earlier this month and I think it’s a good idea, considering there have been instances where fat women have been rudely told to leave a mainstream club because their size meant bad business.
I understand some people may have issues with them because it seems they’re separating fatties from people with “ideal bodies” and men who go to these clubs to chubby chase. But until society gets its collective head out of its butt and realizes fat people are not “other” and we can spend money just like everyone else, we need these places where fat men and women (and the people that don’t think we’re gross) can safely socialize and dance.
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I’m not sure how i feel about this, honestly. I like the idea of going to a club and not being the fat chick everyone stares at. “No we don’t think you’re hot, we think you’re a freak.” On the other hand… no wait… It’s official – i’m in favour of this.
I’ve thought about it a lot, and for my own reasons decided against it. Here’s why:
fat clubs also means that they’re going to be territories for fat fetishists. When I’m at a normal club I’m at risk for crappy behavior, indeed, and I receive some. But my fat also operates as an idiot filter in some ways – I’m not approached very often by someone I wouldn’t want to engage with, because I don’t rate as attractive on the “standard” scale, and this actually can leave me in peace. I feel like I’m more likely to get male entitlement behaviors, especially from fetishists, at a fat club – “well, you’re here for ME aren’t you?”
I could be wrong, and I haven’t tried it. If I go to one, I’ll see how I feel afterward.
First I need to get it out that the tone towards the end of that article really bothered me – when they started with the “let’s make fat people feel better about themselves, because self esteem will make them lose weight!” crap. Because apparently self esteem and self acceptance are only valuable if they’re part of the journey to weight loss?
I do wonder though with these clubs, how much size-ism still goes on? Do people need to wait in line to get in? And if so, will people still be evaluated based on weight? That either someone is too thin to be acceptable at the fat club, or that only smaller fat people with more “ideal” proportions (i.e., hour glass figure and/or big boobs) will be let in?
The ratio of fat men to fat women also feels sketchy to me – most of the women are fat, most of the men aren’t. Now, it could just be that the author is holding men and women to different standards for what qualifies as fat. But I do wonder about the motivation of nonfat men who go to clubs like that. Fetish? A$$holes who think that fat women will be easy?
Finally, mixed feelings on the disclaimers. (Though I’m not sure if society really considers having children an acceptable reason for being fat; because hey, so-and-so celeb was back to their usual thin=beautiful self about a week after giving birth. The side effects one seemed more relevant as an acceptable good fatty excuse). Anyway, on the one hand no one should have to explain themselves or their size. On the other hand, I think it could help to put any seed of doubt in people’s minds before they make assumptions about every fat person they see. Instead of the automatic conclusion “that person is fat because they eat too much and don’t exercise,” “maybe they have a medical condition” is an improvement of sorts.
I despise the whole nightclub scene in general; waiting in line to be “chosen,” the meat-market atmosphere, the game-playing, etc. It’s just so high school! So having a club where you can just go and dance and have fun and not worry or be self-conscious sounds like a great idea, whether it’s for folks who are “plus size,” gay, or simply don’t like the “regular” clubs.
Back when I actually had enough energy to go clubbing, my friends and I found a few out-of-the-way, alternative places to go, and we had WAY more fun than we did at the mainstream places.
(And, OT, can I just say, as a straight woman, that the gay and lesbian clubs we went to ROCKED!!!!!!)
If anyone thinks it’s not okay to have a club exclusively for people NOT plus sized, then why would it be okay for there to be one just for plus sized?
Addressing two comments, Diana and M:
Diana,
Yeah, there are fat fetishists, but there are also fat admirers (like myself), who are not the same as fat fetishists. And then there are just guys who are friends with fat chicks and it doesn’t matter to them one way or the other.
But I think to dismiss fat clubs because of a fear that some creepy fat fetishist will fixate on you shouldn’t scare you away. Creepy is creepy, whether it’s someone with a fat fetish (again, not the same as fat admiration) or some asshole who wants to hook up with a fat chick “for a laugh.” Creeps are everywhere, and no special club will filter them out or increase their numbers.
M,
The fat club I’ve been to was relatively small, so there was never a “line,” nor any sort of standards applied. There were a few skinny women there, as well as deathfatz, mildly overweight, and everything in between.
As far as the men who go to those clubs, as I said, some are fetishists, some are admirers and some are just curious guys. I think the same rules of caution apply in a fat club as in a “regular” club.
Peace,
Shannon
I’m pro this idea, because the end result is that someone with a particular comfort level, who wouldn’t have gone out at all, does, and has a good time.
And, Forestroad–Amen.
I hate clubs, so I really don’t have an opinion on this one way or the other, but what qualifies as “plus size” for the club? Like, I’m “safely” plus size by my own standards and my BFF is not. Is she allowed to come in with me if we went? I’ve heard of this club but don’t know any specifics, so this is probably addressed elsewhere.
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I want to clarify my comment, which totally sounds like it’s coming down on the negative side. I’m all for a “safe place” I can go hang out in. Who knows, maybe I’d be more of a club person if it was a club in which I felt comfortable and accepted?
Forestroad – I am going to get two masters degrees and a PhD just so I can use that line.
I personally love them because of the comfort factor i am all for equality but for real when the day is done i am not worried about breaking down the stereotypes in the clubs I am moreconcerned about the work place. when i am ready to relax i do not,want to feel uncomfortable and size really does not matter i have gone with my thin friends to the big girl spot and we had a blast because the atmosphere was open they said they feel more pressure at other clubs people danced did their thing flirted checked everyone out but it did not feel cutthroat to them. i had to agree through it was a bit different since,most of guys were not trying to go ther and one was rude,and said u are too thin.
I wish I had a dollar for every time the phrase “weigh in” has been used as a pun for an article that deals with weight in some manner. Degree in journalism, much?
I’ve been to kind of a “plus-size” club a few times back in my early 20s (I’m 31 now). Basically a online group I belonged to would hold a club night once a month at various venues. I liked having somewhere to go where I wouldn’t feel self-conscious about my weight. But I also would go to “regular” size dance clubs as well.
I like the idea, and I really agree with what Atchka! said earlier about these kinds of places being a step on the road to embracing ones fat. Being a fierce fat doesn’t happen overnight.
Why is this different from gay people going to gay clubs? If you’re visibly out, all day, every day, what’s the problem with going and hanging out in a safe space at the end of your day? I don’t see it so much as saying “we’ll go over here so you don’t have to see us”. It’s more “fuck that haters, we’ll go over here and make our own fun.”
So… If a non-plus-size group wanted to go, would they be looked down on because if their size? And if so, is that okay or a problem?
OT I’m either not fat enough, too new to being fat, or completely naive cuz I had never heard of these predatory fat fetishists until someone mentioned it on this site a few weeks ago. That’s absolutely horrible. I know there are all sorts of creeps everywhere looking for all sorts of weirdly specific things but from what you guys are saying this sounds like a special breed of jerk.
I think it’s a great idea, and not much different from why Historically Black Colleges and Universities were started; cant’ be accepted in a setting, playing by the rules of the majority/powerful? Then create your own. It’s not hiding at all, in my opinion.
I too have a little from column a and a little from column b. Yes, I believe that it teeters on segregation or hiding us away as though we’re something to be ashamed of, and that visibility and acceptance of ALL should be the way we’re going.
But I also grow very weary of being hated on, ridiculed and discriminated against, and it would be lovely to have a “safe place”.
@Richard: I think it would work in a similar way to gay/lesbian clubs; straight people are welcome at LBGTQ clubs, as long as they are there to have a good time and not queer-bash.
One time I saw a huge bachelorette party come into a local lesbian nightclub–they just wanted a place to dance and party without worrying about creepy guys hitting on the bride-to=be.
I feel like I would be in favor of plus-size nightclubs, but I’d have to check one out to be certain of my personal feelings (I’m not much of a nightclub person, generally).
Atchka> Sorry dude, NO. A fat admirer is six of one and half dozen of the other. My fiancee is not a “fat” admirer. He is a “me” admirer. SIGNIFICANT difference, and your comments definitely encourage me to stay far, far away from such clubs.
snozzberry!
Diana: Maybe I’m thinking about this too technically, but fetish means that you cannot perform sexually without whatever the object of your fetish is. I feel like fat admirers might prefer a fat body/find it more attractive, but it doesn’t have the same absoluteness to it as fetishist. To draw what I hope is a semi-decent parallel, I like chocolate but I’m willing to eat a dessert without chocolate in it and I don’t like every single chocolate dessert out there. That’s how I see fat admirers – that they have a preference towards finding fat people attractive but can be attracted to thinner people and need to know more about a specific person to have a relationship with them so it goes beyond something sexual. Fetish is purely sexual.
Diana,
Does that mean that your husband is only attracted to people that look like you? And how did he decide that he was interested in you prior to getting to know you? Was it based on any of your physical attributes? Or does your husband only see personality in people, like Shallow Hal?
The truth is, we all have some sort of physical preference that trips our triggers. I also like brunettes. I don’t know why, I just gravitate toward them. Does that make me a monster?
Your disgust really saddens me. It’s the same kind of disgust I get from people who aren’t aware of Fat Acceptance and just think fat women are disgusting, period. I am who I am. I didn’t select my preferences from a book. I just am.
But thanks for judging me.
Peace,
Shannon
I think they are fine. Size acceptance in its various forms constitutes a multi faceted sub culture. There is nothing wrong with wanting to be with others who share the same interests.
Diana, do you find men, who only want slim/skinny women, equally “disgusting”? How about those, who encourage their women to lose weight?
…
It’s always really frustrating when confronted by that particular assumption, That attraction = fetish. Not quite as bad as being equated with feeders but that assumption has made a few go-’rounds as well. It, however is usually made by those who believe physical attraction to anyone fat is nothing short of impossible. Very much the flip side of the same coin that says ‘Fat women just want men to find them attractive’ (aka; ‘they just want to have sex with me’). Unfortunately we usually get it from both sides. Haters dropping the freak label in disgust, most others already decided it’s a creepy fetish. All because it’s not possible to be attracted to someone fat.
I think I’m OK with plus-size clubs as long as they operate like gay bars, where it’s OK to come in if you’re not fat/gay as long as you’re just there to have fun.
And jumping in on the fetish discussion- I think, especially when it comes to something as socially taboo as being attracted to beefier people, that there’s a real problem and a real disconnect in distinguishing between what is an attraction (a preference) and a fetish. We all have our preferences- I’ve got a thing for red hair and freckles. Some men are into boobs, some men are into legs. Some women prefer a guy with short hair, some with long. It all goes into what physically attracts you- and *most* people will sometimes find they become attached to people who don’t fit their “normal” idea of what is physically attractive, and that’s OK too.
Fetish is different; It’s not that you’re just attracted to people who look a certain way, it’s more sexual. And for all that it’s viewed as ‘creepy’ I am completely OK with this, as well. It’s not my thing; Fetishization is generally objectification and I don’t want to be objectified for my weight- and since I don’t want to, I would probably feel a bit “creeped out” if someone tried to, but keep in mind that even fat fetishists aren’t really hurting anyone at their core so it’s sort of unfair to just call that creepy because that’s how it is perceived.
Anyway, this is getting kind of long but the point I’m trying to make is that in discussions like this I tend to see a lot of talk about how ‘creepy’ fat fetishes are and such and I just want everyone to remember that just because something isn’t your thing doesn’t automatically mean it is inherently creepy. Sure, some fetishists of all sorts will probably act in ways we might feel are creepy- and that’s a sign to back off, they’re probably not the right one for you.
Akchka / B4C, perhaps we’d better just accept it. No matter how many times we tell people we’re NOT creepy fetishists, that being attracted to a fat woman is every bit as legit as a preference (and that’s ALL it is) for redheads or skinny chicks, or (dare I say it) one-dimensional ‘ripped’ men with washboard stomachs and three sets of shoulders, the women concerned are just going to go on sticking their fingers in their ears – ‘la-la-la, I’m-not-listening, if I say you’re a freak you’re a freak – freak! So there!’
And you and I may know that no-one in their right mind picks a partner based solely on the basis of them being fat besides the Craigslist guys, most of whom aren’t looking for love but a notch for their bedpost, but then, to some women we’re all that shallow and only care about what they look like – because after all no woman ever rejected her potential soul mate based on his lack of arm candy potential or what her friends might think of the fact he’s beneath her in the physical attractiveness department. And if all that also means that because I happened to marry a fat chick (as opposed to just being fat myself) I’ve nothing to contribute to political FA, then so be that as well. Frankly I’m getting really rather tired of trying to push the point to people whose minds were made up long before then, so I give up.
I have never said anything about finding any fat people “disgusting” and I find the questions about “attraction” etc. exactly the kind of thing that people do when you assert “I’m not into it” and the person wants you to justify to them why because they want something from you they’ve got no right to ask for. “I don’t want to date you. I don’t find you attractive.”
“Why?”
That’s the sort of thing that should never need justification.
I am choosing to avoid such clubs, because the culture behind “fat admirers” is a big turnoff to me. And bringing up my partner’s preferences is in no way relevant to the argument.
When it comes to plus size clubs: I’m not into it. This doesn’t mean I have a problem with fat people – I am fat, and quite comfortable with myself. And if other fat people feel they need a club to feel comfortable, or because they want to embrace their fatness as a sexual element rather than as one part of a whole person, I’m sure some will enjoy such clubs. If it were just about being comfortable, I’d feel a little sad some people find it necessary, but whatever. Since people often hit nightclubs because they’re looking for sex in addition to a normal good time, however, this means that such a specific club will bring out people with specific desires that I don’t want to be approached with.
Since I don’t want to be subjected to “What do you mean you’re not into it, you’re here and you’re fat – therefore you should be available to my advances”! Therefore, I am opting not to invest my recreation time in such a club.
I’m not stopping anyone else from doing it and I’m not going to further justify why I don’t want to participate in such a culture.
That makes sense. People never go to regular nightclubs looking to get drunk and hook up with a stranger for the weekend, after all.
People are people, whatever their weight.
Diana,
Your comments that fat admirers and fat fetishists are six of one, half dozen of the other are extremely offensive to me. But, whatever.
My questions about attraction are to clarify that you understand the difference between attraction and fetish. Example: your husband spoke to you because he’s naturally drawn to (let’s pick something at random) short women. You’re short, so he had his eye on you from the start. Whereas, if you were tall, he might not have noticed you.
There are extraneous circumstances that override preference. For example, you meet your future husband through a friend and whereas in a public setting he might not notice you, through fate you met in a setting where he gets to know your personality up front. He may then fall in love with who you are, regardless of your height, because the direct connection through a friend superseded the randomness that attraction facilitates.
Does that mean your husband is no longer attracted to short women? Or that he isn’t really attracted to you? Not at all. Attraction is malleable, so if you started out short in your relationship and, after he falls in love with you, you magically grow to be 6’2″, he’ll still love you.
I’m simply referring to those instances of initial attraction, when the only thing you have to base it on is physicality, which some people have certain preferences for.
I don’t care what your opinions on plus sized clubs are. If you’re uncomfortable there, fine. But what I find troubling is your dismissive attitude toward the differences between attraction and fetish.
As far as your repeated claims of male entitlement behavior: I find it ironic that someone who expects people to be so open-minded about fat people finds it so easy to stereotype people. So, fat fetishists and fat admirers are the same. And all fat fetishists (and admirers) are going to plus-sized clubs to exert their entitlement over fat women.
I’m sorry, but that’s just wrong. Are there men who exhibit those behaviors? Yes. Do fat fetishists at plus-sized clubs have a higher tendency to do so than “normal” men at “normal” clubs? I don’t think so. If you’re a predator, you’re a predator, regardless of your individual idiosyncrasies, and you’re going to that venue to prey.
I’m not at all bothered by your desire to avoid such clubs, but I am bothered by your generalizations about the people who do frequent them.
And just out of curiosity, what is the “culture” of fat admirers?
Peace,
Shannon
I seriously think that people should stop all this segregation thing. I do agree that having a safe place is wonderful and all. But if the wonderfully BIG community keeps hiding out, how will people learn to accept them? Sure, people will be mean and will give weird looks and all that. What do you expect? Like curing a phobia, I think that shock therapy would work here. Maybe then, people will get used to fat girls shaking their lovely booties on the dance floor. There is definitely nothing wrong with that. Especially if girl’s got the moves.
-Denise
Here’s the reality of being fat. There are very few places where a person who is fat can go and automatically know that there are others there who find your body shape or size attractive. And that’s a huge deal. We spend so much of our time trapped in situations were we are made to feel like we are the biggest person in the room. It could be in the office or on a bus or in the middle of aunt Susan’s birthday party. So when the opportunity arises where we can go some where and not have that automatic twinge of is there going to be all skinny people here and am I going to stick out like a sore thumb, well why wouldn’t we embrace that possibility. As for the constant mention of those who are fat fetishist…surprise we run into those kinds everywhere. Ever been a woman of size standing at the counter in some store with a plus size bra and had some guy give you that stupid grin. It’s pathetic but it’s out there. The idea that these clubs are some breeding ground for those assholes is misguided and when they do creep in a strong big woman can smack the stupid right off there faces and move on. I think that to take a stand saying there shouldn’t be any of these clubs specific for fat people is ridiculous. There are specialty clubs for everyone else. For different races, different sexual orientations, different taste in music, even different religions. There have always been various clubs around. I have a friend that goes to a salsa club another that goes to this club where just about all of the people there are Korean. I know of clubs that cater to the over 40 crowd or the goth set. So why wouldn’t we want to have a place that welcomes us as we are and has a flashing sign that says….We love fat people….meet some friends…dance your feet off and kick back and enjoy being exactly who you are. No pressure. This idea that it separates us from the general population is crap. We already feel separate and this is one of the things that makes us feel like we are just like everyone else. We belong. We have our crowd, we laugh, we sing, we flirt and we make fools of ourselves, just like everyone else. We are not hiding we are out there having fun. We are equal to average size people. Oh and in case some don’t know at a lot of these clubs there are lots of average size people. Instead of us being the big person in a small world. The average size people are the small people in a great big wonderful world. It includes us in the night life. It makes us part of our community. The only difference is that we don’t have to guess if those average size people are talking about us behind our backs. We know they are and that they like what they see.
Oh and to clarify because I know this will be questioned. I am a big woman. I’m 5’6″ tall and over 225 pounds and happy with the body I have. I wish there were more of these clubs so some of my more self conscience friends would be able to feel the freedom of knowing they are desired and accepted by a lot more people of all different sizes then they realize.