"I Don't Care For Your Fairytales"
Artist Dina Goldstein is doing a provocative photography project called Fallen Princesses. Of this project, she says:
These works place Fairy Tale characters in modern day scenarios. In all of the images the Princess is placed in an environment that articulates her conflict. The ‘…happily ever after’ is replaced with a realistic outcome…. I began to imagine Disney’s perfect Princesses juxtaposed with real issues that were affecting women around me, such as illness, addiction and self-image issues.
Among other fairytale princesses is Little Red Riding Hood, who is represented as “not so little,†with a basket full of fast food. Does this speak to “self-image issues†and if so, how? Here are some of the comments on the page (the first one is from Brenda, to give you a context for the responses):
Excellent, let’s reinforce the stereotype that fat people gobble huge quantities of burgers and sodas. You suck. Really. No, I mean REALLY. Whatever rationalization you use for this piece, you’re still a creep for the attitude conveyed therein. This is not art.
I’m pretty sure that people who are 50-80-100 pounds overweight are not this way because they’re active, healthy individuals. I think you’re entirely incorrect, Brenda, for claiming that stating that people who eat massive amounts of food end up fat and unhealthy is a stereotype. That sounds like an actual fact, to me; most people who eat healthy and who live active lifestyles where they exercise like they should are not morbidly obese
Brenda has a point. I assume she’s complaining that it portrays fat people as consuming *huge quantities* of food all the time, that’s the issue. Eating a lot of bad food makes you fat, duh, nobody’s arguing that – I’m just tired of seeing fat people being shown as lazy, stupid, or thinking only about food.
However, Brenda and I are both guilty of jumping to a similar conclusion – that a fat person with a lot of food is going to eat it all themselves. The story of Red Riding Hood is that of a girl taking food to Granny, so why did we both assume it was all for Red in this image?
I really enjoy all of the photos in this series. But to the conversation going on above about portrayals of fat people, and the causes, I think there’s a middle ground between Brenda’s comment and the objections to her comment. Large quantities of soda and fast food can absolutely make a person fat…but that does not mean that consuming huge quantities of food is the only cause of obesity. Health problems, genetic predispositions, all sorts of other factors can contribute to someone being overweight, even “50-80-100” pounds overweight, even on a diet that many would deem healthy and even with daily, intensive exercise. I think the juxtaposition of a fairy tale character with some of the consequences of fast food society is incredibly thought provoking. I just hope that everyone is not looking at the fat people around them and assuming they have a hidden basket of fast food causing their appearance.
And here is the chat Weetabix and I had about it earlier today.
Weetabix: did you see this? I was going to post on BFD about this, but I don’t think I’m going to have time now.
Mo Pie: oh, very interesting!! And she is also wearing klompen
Weetabix: yes, she is. I was thinking about comparing/contrasting to the rest of the princess photos
Mo Pie: that is because you have a big brain
Weetabix: the rest show some kind of failing on the part of the princess, although the Jasmine picture isn’t necessarily a failing, almost a conception… also, Red Riding Hood wasn’t a princess, so that’s interesting too… the Rapunzel is heartbreaking
Mo Pie: yes it is… wow
Weetabix: if you read the comments on the Red photo, there’s quite the discussion on obesity and then someone wonders if it wasn’t the fact that Red ate the wolf instead of the other way around
Mo Pie: heh. maybe she did eat the wolf. fat = empowerment!
Weetabix: but I suspect that it isn’t the case: the rest of the photos are about what happened after, not altering the original premise.
Mo Pie: yeah, good point.
Weetabix: that would be a very optimistic way of looking at it
actually, now that I’m thinking about it, you could just post our chat as the entry!
Mo Pie: hee. I could! I will title it Weetabix = Very Smart, Mo Pie = Has Not Had Coffee Yet
Weetabix: also, if I were the artist and wanted to show that she ate the wolf, it would be “recent fat” of having a distended stomach, not obviously “living fat” with the weight in her boobs and stuff
Disclaimer: I also have not had coffee yet!
Mo Pie: oh, now you’re just showing off.
Weetabix: But I’ve been awake for hours, so it doesn’t count, and also, two hours ahead of you
Mo Pie: no, you’re right, I think that “just ate the wolf” is obviously not the intention.
Weetabix: The Rapunzel one destroys my argument, though, because it seems as though it’s a statement on these women choosing the wrong path
Mo Pie: well, we don’t know what Jasmine is fighting for, she could be righteously avenging Aladdin’s death or something!
Weetabix: and taking a step back, it seems as though the Red Riding Hood character is just a cheap shot. If she didn’t eat the wolf, then there’s no real linking to the original fairy tale (unless she really was a glutton, as was suggested by a commenter on the thread)
Mo Pie: yeah, that’s true. the only link is the “basket of food” thing.
Weetabix: That’s true! Maybe the art is about reversing how we see these deified Princesses, not about making them into autonomous figures that have directed themselves somewhere unseemly
Mo Pie: I can’t get that really fantastic Sara Bareilles song out of my head. “Cinderella’s on her bedroom floor / She’s got a crush on the guy at the liquor store / Cause Mr. Charming don’t come home anymore…â€
Weetabix: Did Red drop breadcrumbs or was that Hansel and Gretl? I don’t remember anymore.
Mo Pie: it was Hansel and Gretl who dropped the breadcrumbs… Red was just taking a basket of food to her grandma
oh, I think I see the connection… because in the original it is “what big ears you have.. what big eyes you have… what big teeth you have..” so it could be the concept of “big”?
Weetabix: Now you’re showing off. That’s brilliant!
I guess it seems too elegant to me, because I can’t see the connection between Cinderella turning into a barfly or Rapunzel getting cancer
I want to just say that the artist was being provocative and trying to show Red Riding Hood as something that the public would respond to as being “not cute”
Mo Pie: well with Rapunzel her thing was her hair, and I think the photographer thought, well, how could she lose her hair?
Cinderella just had issues, man.
Weetabix: Rapunzel could be a mohawk-wearing Drag King?
Mo Pie: well, I love the direction the artist went, though that would be cool too.
Weetabix: I kind of get Belle being a plastic surgery addict, because supposedly she was so amazingly beautiful, even her name means beautiful.
Mo Pie: yeah, in the original story she was named Beauty
Weetabix: I guess, taking all of these things into account, I believe the artist is saying that these outcomes are not good outcomes, for any of the princesses (or fairytale women).
Mo Pie: yeah, that seems to be universal
Weetabix: So I’m falling on the side of Sizism there
Mo Pie: heh, or maybe the obvious conclusion is that she was originally named “little” red riding hood, and now is not little, and we are reading too much into it
Weetabix: well, way to be obvs.
Mo Pie: and it’s just a fat joke! but with klompen!
Weetabix: Clearly we’re too aggro about this. And we all lived happily ever after?
Mo Pie: the end!
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Art, Fatism, Feminism, Media, Meta, Movies, Music, Sex & Romance
Email us
My comment (which I left on the site with the photo):
In her response, photographer Dina Goldstein called us “kids” and told us “it’s just my personal comment…”
Referring to those critiquing her work as children while taking on the role of calm, rational adult (“Now Now kids…”) suggests a lack of respect for adult dialogue, and effectively diminishes us. In Ms. Goldstein’s eyes, we aren’t thinking adults responding to photos with a political critique on real issues that affect our lives. No, we’re just children who need to be told to “relax.”
And of course Ms. Goldstein reminds us that this is “just” a “personal comment,” a hedge that is problematic in many ways.
Ms. Goldstein, as any thinking feminist would remind you, the personal becomes political when you share it in a public forum, at which point you have purposefully engaged and put your “comment” out there in ways that affect the rest of us.
And why should we relax? In what ways has this photograph made the world a place in which fat women *can* relax and live in peace?
Fat women such as myself live with ongoing, daily fatphobia. People see us and, yes, believe we are “fallen”–having failed to enact proper womanhood, which, in part, is defined through self-restriction, not taking up too much space, and through being childlike, passive, and living in hope that some prince will see us as beautiful enough to be worth saving.
Unlike Brenda, I do believe this is art, but it is art that perpetuates rather than questioning existing prejudices that make it difficult for real world women to live happily with their human, non-princess-like selves.
This photograph, and the comments of the artist, actively diminish the lived experience of fat women, and in that respect, I’d categorize this as a failure, even if it does provoke dialogue.
Though perhaps something good will come of this if the artist sees these comments and reconsiders the way in which she has categorized adult women like myself as “fallen” without ever having met us.
It’s very noble of you to bend over backward to try and find an interpretation other than “ha ha nowadays lots of women scarf junkfood and are therefore fat.” If it was not intended as a fat joke, I would say it fails miserably by being indistinguishable from a fat joke.
What meerkat said.
Also, what Miriam Heddy said.
The Jasmine one also pissed me off. How is it gutsy or anti-stereotypical to put the girl from the Middle East in the middle of a fire fight with a BFG?*
The artist claims she’s dealing with the downside of happily ever after, but she shows Little Red (who was never a princess, incidentally, but a peasant girl) in an alternate beginning to her tale. Is she blaming the fact that the wolf wanted to eat her up on the fact that she’s fat and juicy? Is she blaming Red for being too fat to get to her grandmother’s house before the wolf sees her and decides to ambush her at her grandmother’s house? Is there any point other than Little Red isn’t really so little?
Any way you slice it, I don’t see anything challenging in the image. I see more of the same old blaming and shaming and a lazy, lazy shorthand.
In fact, for me the by far most successful one was Rapunzel. Most of the rest of them felt a bit expected yet insulting to me. But now I want to see Rapunzel rocking a badass mohawk. I’d kind of like to see a series of images where the fairy tale princesses figure out their own self worth and get down with their empowered bad selves.
Now that would be a stereotype busting series!
*(Big F$#ing Gun)
Just a note; in my course on childhood literature, the *real* meaning behind Red RidingHood is to to caution young women about sex and predatory men. The wolf in the story ‘devours’ Red and her Granny after Red deviates from the path and goes flower picking. Red is nicknamed for her attire, a colour of passion and sex. The artist in question here hasn’t done anything all that spectacular, IMO, and has, as many have stated, done nothing more than perpetuate the stereotypes associated with fat women.
I find it interesting that Belle’s getting cosmetic surgery, because when I first saw the picture, my instinct was that she was actually getting facial reconstruction done–Beast is an abusive animal in the movie, and Belle “tames” him by loving him enough, something that we see over and over in stories of battered women. My initial read of the image was that his true nature (that of the Beast) had surfaced again, and she was getting her face repaired from the damages that he’d caused her.
Miriam Heddy, I love your comment and am so glad you posted it on the artist’s site. You hit every point that needed to be made. Thank you.
Marianne at the Rotund has a post about this, and I wondered if there was more to the image of Red than “another fatty eating fast food and drinking soda.” I thought maybe it could have been a commentary on Red refusing to prepare homecooked meals for Granny and instead being “lazy” and opting to take her fast food.
After hearing the photographer’s reply to those criticizing her, it looks like it is another stereotypical depiction of a fat person preparing to gorge on their supposed 24/7 diet of fast food. So much for creativity!
So, I’ve been mulling this over since it was mentioned on The Rotund (http://www.therotund.com/?p=623) and here’s what I think…
…this photo is just not that clever.
…at its core, the Little Red Riding Hood story is really about loss of innocence and sexual appetite, right? I mean, maybe I’m going by way of Sondheim’s interpretation (“Into the Woods” anyone?) but it’s about a pubescent girl literally DEVOURED by a scary monster-man-wolf. Right? And we’re told that the girl has a big appetite for round soft things in the fairy tale. Pastries, etc. Appetite = sexual appetite. Isn’t that one of the stereotypical tropes about fat women? That we’re good in bed because we are either desperate or our appetite for food translates into an appetite for sex?
So I think the photographer could have done something FAR more interesting to play on the obvious sexuality of the fairytale. Devouring the wolf would be an interesting suggestion. Turning her into an older seductress. SOMETHING. As this is, it plays on dumb old stereotypes and misses the whole point of the fairytale.
I can’t get too worked up either way because this whole project seems so gimmicky and uninspired to me. The photos are gorgeously executed, but the whole thinking behind this smacks of undergrad thesis project. Seriously, the fairy-tale-themed photo shoot on America’s Next Top Model was more interesting than this.
Considering that Robin McKinley has been writing suberb alternate versions of these fairy tales for decades, I found the artist’s versions completely unimpressive and unimaginitive. Did she not do any reading beyond the Disney Illustrated Fairy Tales?
Thanks for the link to Marianne’s post! I’ve been out of town and behind on my Fatosphere reading.
Oh and Miriam, I loved your comment; so measured and articulate and way more thoughtful than the photograph, clearly, if that’s Ms. Goldstein’s attitude.
@Meghan: That was my exact thought too!
That was the first picture my eye was drawn too and I thought, after only skimming the post I read about it, that if the focus was on turning the idea of princess stories on their heads, than showing that you can not turn an abusive beast into a loving husband, was a brilliant idea.
@Twistie
The Jasmine one also pissed me off. How is it gutsy or anti-stereotypical to put the girl from the Middle East in the middle of a fire fight with a BFG?*
I think this image works if you change the focus of the project a little bit. As you said, the artist is trying to show the downside of happily ever after, and I don’t quite see how this picture relates to that. However if, as I said above, the idea is to show the reality of these princess stories, than things change a little.
In the Disney version of the story, Jasmine is completely sheltered from the outside world. When I saw this picture, before understanding the theme of the project, I thought it was to expose the ridiculousness of the idea that a princess from the Middle East would be sheltered from knowledge about the outside world, as she would have grown up amidst war.
@Jae: That was my interpretation, as well. I have to admit that I’m rather disappointed that it wasn’t the case!
I saw this exhibit linked elsewhere and thought for a second about mentioning it in a class I am taking this summer (Interpreting Grimms’ Fairy Tales), but as soon as I got to the Red Riding Hood photo I nixed that idea.
And then yesterday, the instructor mentioned that a friend of his had sent him a link to an interesting photo exhibit and I KNEW it was going to be the Dina Goldstein pictures. I hunkered down, just waiting for the Red Riding Hood photo and when it came up, sure enough the other students cracked up laughing.
And then the instructor went on to say he saw it as a commentary on “happily ever after” gone awry. Basically, the worst-case scenarios for these women. I sat in the back, fuming, thinking I should say something, but I am still not comfortable enough to be a FA avenger.
Nevermind the fact that Red was NOT a fairy tale princess, and she has not been Disneyfied and doesn’t belong in this photo exhibit anyway. It’s just business as usual- reminding the fatties that they are a cautionary tale and the only way to be seen as acceptable is to acknowledge how hideous we are and atone for it through starving ourselves.
I thought the comments were disturbing because so many people seem to find these photos funny. I’m missing the humor here.
I thought the Little Red Riding Hood photo was beautiful…the model is a GORGEOUS fat woman and is portrayed as such – beautifully made up and in lovely clothes. She also looks HAPPY while eating McDonalds, not ashamed or disgusted with herself. I think it portrays a woman who has a healthy relationship with food. A woman who says “Fuck it, I want McDonalds right now and I don’t care what YOU think about it”. Nor does it bother me that she has a basket load of the food – she’s bringing it to her grandmother’s house to share! I think the photo would have been offensive if it showed a slovenly, grossly misproportioned LRRH in too tight clothes shoving the entire basket of food into her mouth with her jaw unhinged, or maybe surrounded by the wrappers from all the food, burping and farting and picking at herself. But as it is? I like it. Sometimes I want to eat McDonalds and I when I do, I enjoy it – like the LRRH is in the picture.
Maybe I’m missing the point because I’m soooo outraged and I have to be honest and say it’s not the Little Red Riding Hood image that disgusts me the most (although I’m in agreement with the majority here). Doesn’t the phrase “Fallen” indicate somehow someone lost their way in life by their choice, or rather their own doing (isn’t Lucifer the most well know “Fallen Angel”)? REALLY??? Does Ms. Goldstein really consider the woman who gets cancer and has to loose all her hair from chemo “Fallen”? Does she consider the woman who chooses to become a mom and have more than the “normal” 2.5 kids “Fallen”? I won’t even touch the Red Riding Hood pic and how she contradicts herself with the image of Belle, it would just take up too much space!
To me all this series shows is a photographer desperate for attention so she took the amazingly beautiful Disney ads that have been circulating for a while done by Annie Leibovitz and twisted it to create controversy. And she did it in a TMZ kind of way not an Edward Gorey kind of way. Annie Leibovitz she is not and if she really believes the majority of what she shows in her series to constitute “Fallen” then she’s got some Karma to look out for!
Though I agree with your analysis of the piece, I really have to take issue with your statement that the photo “is not art”. Just because you don’t personally agree with what the artist is trying to say, doesn’t lessen the photo’s status as “art”.
Alise, that was a quote, it was Brenda who said the piece was not art.
this is probably a tad unrelated, but I’ve just read something that almost had me fall off my chair.
According to a study in Japan, people who are overweight at the age of 40, live longer. So I’m guessing that fashion designers really need to reassess their priorities.
This is the link:
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/wellbeing/study-tips-scales-the-other-way-overweight-people-live-longer-20090618-cm13.html
I don’t know if anyone has seen the artist’s own comments about this series, so here is a link to it:
http://www.jpgmag.com/stories/11918
tl;dr version: The artist grew up somewhere where she didn’t see any disney movies and observed three year old girls and presumably her own daughter falling in love with disney princesses, became intrigued with the stories and put her own spin on them. Two more pics will be done and then the whole shebang will be on exhibit somewhere.
artist blurb: “The Disney versions almost always have sad beginning, with an overbearing female villain, and the end is predictably a happy one. The Prince usually saves the day and makes the victimized young beauty into a Princess.”
@ Wendy , totally agree there. I followed the link hoping to see what the fuss was about and maybe see some other interesting and thought provoking pictures besides. No luck there. Not only do I find the project mostly uninspired but I struggle to make the connections in some of the pictures that I assume the artist was going for. All in all, the shots are very well lit and staged but the “deeper” meaning behind them is mostly shallow.
@ Miriam , Well said. i think the way the artist reacted to the negative comments is ridiculous. Not only the “relax” comment, but the other further in where she “…feel that perhaps people are over thinking and projecting their own insecurities in their commentary.” Of course we are! That is what art is about, the personal injection of one’s own feelings and thoughts on to a piece which makes that piece resonate for us in some manner. I find it laughable that Ms . Goldstein would be so surprised at the reactions to photos that are obviously meant to incite reaction! Also she states she is ” … very disappointed after having gone to several of of my commentators pages and noticed that they have no pictures up of their own.
This is photo community , not just a forum for discussion.” Apparently anyone who does not, themselves, have photos on this site is not entitled to an opinion on a piece that she put there for PUBLIC CRITIQUE!
Sorry for the length of this comment, but I am less offended by the content of the actual picture in question than by the behaviour of the supposed “artist”
@Ms Jinxx,
I get the feeling, from her responses, that Ms. Goldstein’s sense of art and art criticism is limited to being in an undergraduate workshop setting, and she’s still waiting for the teacher to step in and direct the class to talk about the next photographer in the group.
sorry to be so late to the comment party. I totally agree with most of the posters but esp Ms Jinxx. However the more I thought about it could Fallen not mean the Fallen Angel type, but more like Fallen on Hard Times? Like the princesses have each lost what was most precious to them. Rapunzel is bald, Cinderella is drinking alone in a bar with no party to go to or any friends (animal or fairy). Belle is losing her looks & needs plastic surgery. Sleeping Beauty has just missed her whole life (or possibly her prince’s depending on the condition of her waking up)
It still makes no sense for LRRH except as a wretched fat joke, like she’s lost her little girl figure & what could be more horrible? I guess I was trying to figure out what interpretation would cast a cancer victim as Fallen & went from there.
Also Miriam LOL at the art student bit!
Pingback: body loving blogosphere 06.21.09