"You Do Not See Fat People In Concentration Camps"
We’ve all read ridiculous examples of hate towards fat people, and I know I shouldn’t be surprised or indignant at this incredibly stupid argument, but OH MY GOD, YOU GUYS. This woman, Deborah Coddington, actually comes out and agrees that anyone can be thin, because people in Nazi concentration camps were thin. I know we’ve heard this before, but, it hit me anew: are you fucking kidding me?
You do not see fat people in concentration camps. Why? Because they get hardly anything to eat and they have to do a lot of work.
Yes, people in concentration camps were thin. Because they were being starved and worked TO DEATH. That is not hyperbole. THEY FUCKING DIED. I mean, why don’t we just look at this (NSFW) picture of concentration camp survivors or go to Auschwitz and then go ahead and glibly use the holocaust as an analogy for fat people! Yeah, great idea! That is totally not tacky and gross at all!
And of course it is possible for we fat people to be thin if we starve ourselves to the point of malnutrition and death. This of course runs counter to every biological imperative, every shred of human decency, and every iota of self-preservation we might have. Because, uh, we are not prisoners of the fucking Nazis. And yet according to Coddington, this self-starvation is desirable because she finds fat people in need of “tough love.” That is GROSS. And she’s not even DONE TALKING YET.
Over-fat people eat too much for numerous reasons. They’re unhappy, unloved, lazy, don’t care, love food, are weak-willed, can’t cook properly, but they’re not obese for cultural reasons, or because they’re big-boned, have hormone problems, or other “it’s not my fault” excuses. Thankfully, we all come in different sizes – large, petite, slim, solid – but basically obesity is caused by eating too much food. As Birkbeck stated, our society is in danger of accepting over-fatness as the norm.
I love that little bolded bit thrown in there. In the middle of telling us we’re “unhappy, unloved, lazy, don’t care, love food, are weak-willed, [and/or] can’t cook properly” she throws in a little “yay, size diversity!” Oh my god, fuck you, lady.
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Fatism, International, NSFW, Science
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There is a special place in Hell reserved for people like this…dumb, insulting, cruel, thoughtless and wrong wrong wrong. Still, I can’t help but wonder if ‘writers’ like this are trying the Ann Coulter/MeMe Roth method of chasing fame & fortune…which is, say something so outrageous, so jaw-droppingly offensive, that people sit up & take notice. Stints as a talking head on various shows will follow (they hope) plus cash, kudos and a bizarre respectability. Still, thank goodness for karma, because truly, what goes around, comes around.
How does this kind of drivel even get published?
OMFG.
I really wonder how it was she observed all 60 million+ fat people in this country to figure out that we’re all unloved and don’t know how to cook. Not to mention lazy.
Douchenozzle.
“How does this kind of drivel even get published?”
Exactly. My grandparents are holocaust survivors. They had all sorts of health problems due to the years of malnutrition that they were forced into, not to mention all of the psychological damage that was done to them. My father and uncle also have some health issues that are related to my grandmother’s history of malnutrition, prior to being pregnant with them.
People like Coddington are never going to change their tune. Anyone who can say these sorts of things will never learn.
I still cannot figure out how this argument is supposed to work for these fatist Nazis. Like it is somehow OK to torture people because, yay! At least they got skinny! WTF?!
This is what I commented on Life on FATS:
As someone whose grandparents barely survived Nazi concentration camps, and someone whose father actually has a lot of food-and-anxiety issues stemming from being a child of Holocaust survivors, and someone whose own serious eating disorder was strongly derived (not totally, but very strongly) from that same anxiety, I am disgusted, appalled, and insulted on so many levels that this university professor would tout a horrible place designed deliberately to exterminate people as some kind of utopia of thinness.
But on the sick upside, at least he admits there WERE concentration camps. Some people won’t even go that far.
The incredible thing to me is that all these journalists who are writing about this guy’s comment have NO comment on it- and further, they concede and they’re like, “Yeah, fat people really ARE disgusting.” It begs the question, does anyone actually know what a concentration camp IS? Does the term not boil anyone else’s blood?
Not only am I appalled by the reference, but I am sickened by the implications.
The use of the concentration camp image (a place where people where forced to work and starved at the same time) seems to be a not-so-subtle threat about what fat people may expect if we don’t “shape up.”
There is, of course, the ignoring of the fact that the entire world labeled these things as war crimes and torture, and are still pursuing the prosecution of the perpetrators.
I think I’ve talked about this in the comments here before. It’s clear that this person isn’t concerned about health, because you do not see any fat people in concentration camps, and nor do you see any healthy people there.
Actually, as offensive as it is, I think it’s a very interesting argument, because it very clearly states what the cultural expectation is: starvation at any, and even the ultimate, cost, for the sake of appearance. Those of us in FA have been saying that this is their point all along, but rarely do they give their message in such blatantly inhumane words. Sad part is, the majority of folks have drunk the Koolaid, and they agree. Most of us drank it, too, it it’s taken us years to put the glass down.
I don’t know how you break through that kind of someone else’s insanity; it’s hard enough to break through your own. I find it interesting that she says she doesn’t care if people are fat; if that’s the case, then why a 2-page column on the benefits of shaming them? These people can’t even speak the truth to themselves, let alone hear anyone else’s.
Let’s see….am I:
Unhappy? Nope. I’ve got a dream job, friends, family, a cat who adores me, hobbies, and a hell of a sense of humor. I am not generally unhappy.
Unloved? See above in re: friends, family, cat, etc.
Lazy? Sometimes, but not a great deal more than average, I would say. And sometimes I’m quite active. I love to take walks, don’t drive, and have been known to dance around the house when nobody is looking.
Uncaring? No. That would be why I’m a part of the FA movement. I care about being treated properly and making sure that others are treated with dignity, whatever their physical size or ability level.
Food loving? Absolutely. I adore food. I read cookbooks for fun and love to bake. I care about the quality of the food I eat and serve my family. I care about how I feel after the meal, too, which is why I choose foods that fuel me well and make me feel my best. And while I do just go to town and gorge myself perhaps half a dozen times a year at celebrations, it’s not my SOP. Eating well past the point of satiety on a regular basis isn’t about enjoying food, it’s a sign that something is wrong.
Weak Willed? Anyone who has met me would start giggling hysterically at this concept.
Can’t Cook Properly? I challenge anyone to eat a meal I’ve prepared and then say that to my face. I’m also versatile. I can cook a good meal no matter what your dietary needs or food issues, and you will enjoy that meal.
So…I guess the calories all stick to me because I love food, even though overeating is not something I do on a frequent basis. Damn!
Seriously, though, why does anyone give people like this a pulpit from which to spew such inane drivel. It’s okay to be really, really tall or short, but variations in width are signs of moral decay because extreme starvation and torture could ‘fix’ the ‘problem’ of being fat?
Witness the entire failure to logic.
I went and read some of the swill… uh, articles attached and found a rather interesting quote from Birkbeck (who apparently made the idiotic concentration camp comment that Coddington quoted… and agreed with).
“Personally, I think one of the reasons that New Zealanders are getting fatter is because the days that they went out and built fences with their bare hands are gone and they take less and less exercise.”
This explains a lot to me… there seems to be something going on where a lot of people, especially older people (Birkbeck is 76) are rather annoyed that the abilities they used to pride themselves on are no longer valuable. Yes, one reason some of us are fatter could well be because we spend less time building fences, plowing fields and hauling water than we once did. Personally I could not be more thrilled. I’m glad that hard labor is no longer a part of most people’s day. I’m glad that more of us can spend our time doing ‘knowledge work’ rather than backbreaking labor. I’m glad I get to be a scientist rather than a farm hand.
No, there were no fat people in concentration camps, because they were godawful miserable evil hellacious places where the very worst horrors were experienced! Jeezus! And yeah, it’s quite possible that 100 years ago there were fewer fat people… because life was freakin’ hard and food was scarce and if you read any diaries from the time a lot of people were miserable a lot of the time! Why the hell would I want that? So, I’m fatter than I would be if I lived that life, so? It may even be that the extra fat will cause me a disease or shorten my life (though I think the jury is still out on that), but so would doing mining or other hard labor… early settlers in New Zealand didn’t exactly have fabulously long and healthy lives.
And concentration camps???? WTF? I don’t even no how to deal with that one… There probably weren’t any opinionated wise-asses like Birkbeck there either, but I don’t say that it’s proof positive that he could muzzle himself if he just tried.
Feh.
“I think it’s a very interesting argument, because it very clearly states what the cultural expectation is: starvation at any, and even the ultimate, cost, for the sake of appearance.”
This is an excellent point and I’m glad that you mentioned it! The fact that anyone would correlate *death camps* with some kind of thin utopia is such an insane thought process that I struggle with getting my head around it.
Of course, if they want to draw out THAT analogy, I wonder whether it’s the thinnest people or the people who carried extra weight that had the most substantial chance of escaping death-by-starvation.
This is just sick. My favorite professor from college was an Auschwitz survivor, I’d love to have watched her take on Ms. Coddington. She survived Auschwitz, I think she could have made this idiot cry like a little baby in about 3 seconds.
This is horrible and beyond insensitive. 11 million people died in those camps. But yeah, at least there weren’t fat people! WTF?!?!?! Who thinks like this? Has 64 years somehow eroded the fact that these places were hell on earth? I don’t think so.
That some people CHOOSE ignorance is beyond me.
You conveniently miss the point. People bring up the concentration camp thing as a rebuttal to fat people who claim being fat is entirely out of their control.
This is false. The concentration camps prove it. Environment can and will enforce a weight, if you have enough desire to make it work for you in such a way.
Nobody is suggesting you be put in a concentration camp, or that being in such a camp is pleasant. They are suggesting that in the end, your weight is your CHOICE and a thing that is ultimately within your control.
I’d wager this comment won’t make it through moderation anyway, as it seems in my experience the fatosphere is too intellectually insecure to deal with rational points stated calmly and without ad hominem attacks. Speaks volumes about you guys doesn’t it?
I can’t really add anything more than a strong *facepalm*
And maybe a “holy fuckballs.”
Twistie, that’s exactly what I was going to do.
-unhappy, unloved, NOPE!
-lazy, don’t care- I’ve got better things to do than weigh every bite of food and count calories and be hungry. I’m not lazy, but it is possible I don’t care.
-love food, YEAH, BABY! No puritanical self denial here, just a love of food, sex, life, the great outdoors and the work I do.
-weak-willed, ok, if I’m weak-willed how come I get everything I want out of life? Why have I been able to fight my way kicking and screaming into a male dominated business? Nope, not buying it.
-can’t cook properly, Ok, step into my kitchen where I keep all of the big knives and accuse me of this one.
Oh, and Tom? Starving myself half to death and making myself unhealthy and unhappy may be a choice, but doesn’t sound wise to me. Why would I choose to do that to myself? I’m healthy and happy…and fat. So be it.
Tom brokaw, Im glad your comment made it through moderation because now I can refute it. We really arent missing the point. I think you are.
Do you really expect fat people to submit themselves to torture? deathly torture, that if it will not kill you has lasting health consequences and most likely shortens your life much more effectively than fat ever will? because thats what starvation is. Concentration camps are inhuman conditions that will make ANYONE lose weight. You can bet your bottom dollar that fat people were more likely to survive those places simply because they had more energy reserves than their thinner counterparts.
Yes. fat people will lose weight if they starve themselves. But they will also suffer all the consequences of starvation, and their quality of life WILL NOT BE WORTH LIVING.
What will it be? healthy, albeit, fat people with perhaps some health problems but generally a good quality of life, or formerly fat people with severe side effects from malnutrition and absolutely no energy to spend on actual, you know, living?
If your answer is the latter, I only hope you can see the depths of evil you are justifying one day.
I would like to add that not all fat people have any health problems related to their fatness, but EVERYONE has health problems relating to malnutrition.
You conveniently miss the point. People bring up the concentration camp thing as a rebuttal to fat people who claim being fat is entirely out of their control.
For starters, people who throw the concentration camp reference around are ignorant racist assholes who don’t seem to grasp that they are demeaning the deaths of millions of people – including the near-extinction of an entire group – in order to try and score cheap points against fatties. Genocide isn’t something you can mention lightly, and when you mention it in the context of fat hate, you are equating being fat with being the object of “justified” (at least in Nazi minds) hatred and murder, which is appalling. Clearly you have no concern or interest in the dead of the Holocaust, so I’m going to assume you probably felt they deserved what they got, since nobody who takes the reality of the Holocaust seriously could possibly find it okay to use it as an excuse to further hatred of others.
In no way, shape or form can you hold up the Holocaust as being equivalent to your fear of having to find a fat person fuckable.
This is false. The concentration camps prove it. Environment can and will enforce a weight, if you have enough desire to make it work for you in such a way.
That you equate a concentration camp with an “environment” where people live of their own free will is appalling in&of itself, and also ridiculous. Concentration camps existed for one purpose: to use up the life of Holocaust victims either directly, through mass killings, or working and starving people to death (plus the odd medical experimentation thrown in “for the fun”).
Nobody, including the millions of people who died at the hands of the Nazis, “has enough desire” as you say, to put themselves through such an experience save for the people suffering from severe eating disorders. You are suggesting that if we fat people only hated ourselves enough to starve and work ourselves to death, we would be acceptable to you and no longer have any problems (other than dying of starvation, which clearly you do not care about). You seem to willfully ignore the reality that nobody could possibly put themselves through that situation since starving people to death in a work camp is torture and not some dynamic example of willpower on the part of the dead and dying.
My question for you is this: why should I give a flying fuck about what you think about me? I wouldn’t fuck you if you were the last human on earth. At this point I doubt I would bother to cross the street to spit on your corpse, your racist, ignorant opinions being so morally repugnant to me. Why in hell should I do anything you suggest? What power on earth would make me want to appeal to you and earn your approval?
My quality of life is the most important factor in determining how I live. I do not define a concentration camp “environment” as being a place with any quality of life for reasons that will probably be obvious to everyone who isn’t a racist fuckwad like yourself. I would never in a million years choose to harm myself to that degree for any reason. I certainly would never do it to please assholes who troll the Internet because they have nothing better to do with their time.
Oh and lastly: BULLSHIT on your main premise that being fat is totally about individual willpower and self control. Weight is influenced by genetics to the same degree height is, but I don’t see you paragons of health and beauty complaining about the epidemic of short people who would be tall enough for your aesthetic tastes if they only tried harder.
You conveniently miss the point. People bring up the concentration camp thing as a rebuttal to fat people who claim being fat is entirely out of their control.
This is false. The concentration camps prove it. Environment can and will enforce a weight, if you have enough desire to make it work for you in such a way.
Oh no, sir, we get the point: that weight loss is possible when conditions are controlled to an extreme degree. We actually understand that principle and many of us have seen that work for us–in the short term.
But if it’s such a rational point, why did someone have to refer to a CONCENTRATION CAMP as an example of that principle in action? Where the “control” required to be thin certainly didn’t come from anyone’s spectacular will power and “desire to make it work?” How in the hell is that a good example of “making choices?”
Go on, Tom Brokaw, convince us: tell us how rational this article is! Auschwitz really got that “calories in, calories out,” business right, didn’t they?
lol, pure strawman. The concentration camps are simply an extreme example used to illustrate the CONTROL aspect of the issue. You have control over your weight. Period. Some people have it tougher than others. Ultimately, all have control.
To say that one must go to the LENGTHS of a concentration camp in order to lose weight is a pure strawman. Sure, it’s very easy to argue against concentration camps. Have fun talking to the wall, because I don’t see anyone arguing FOR them either. I lost 70 lbs in three months and I wasn’t a victim of the holocaust nor did anyone put a gun to my head. I simply took control of my weight and others have the same option.
I don’t want to put you in a concentration camp, I don’t even want to put you on a moderate diet. I just want to refute the b.s. being spewed about not having control over one’s weight.
70lbs in 3 months? thats got to be a hideous shock to your system. extreme loss or gain of weight is considerably more dangerous than maintenance of a high or low weight.
What do you suppose people who are already excercising and eating in a healthy manner and are STILL FAT do. As far as i’m concerned, healthy living is healthy living. It will not make you any thinner than your body wants to be.
It’s scary how quite a few people out there want to see fat people starving themselves and be miserable just to look socially acceptable for their line of vision.
Do you paragons of health and beauty, as DRST so eloquently put it, do not see how harmful that attitude is? Oh yeah, that’s right, you’re too busy running on treadmills for five hours and eating nothing but salads, but you still have plenty of time to hate on a group of people you know nothing about. Yet fatties are the ones with the problem. Don’t think so.
“so I’m going to assume you probably felt they deserved what they got, since nobody who takes the reality of the Holocaust seriously could possibly find it okay to use it as an excuse to further hatred of others.”
Really? You’re going to assume that because I dared to use an event in history as anecdotal evidence supporting assertions about nutrition?
Doing so makes me a racist? And I’m the one being irrational here?
Your other assumptions about anyone wanting to fuck anyone else and that being at the core of my point are also laughable.
Hi Tom,
If you were able to lose 70 pounds in three months, keep it off and be healthy you might want to publish a book or sell the diet or otherwise captialize on your amazing medical breakthrough.
So, do tell. How did you simply take control of your weight? 70 pounds in twelve weeks isn’t just astonishing, it’s miraculous! Did you just stop eating entirely? How long have you kept the weight off?
Who’s the one with the b.s. here?
I went down to 800 calories a day and exercised 1.5 hours per day using high intensity interval training.
Kept if off two years.
No book necessary. It’s all up there.
Tom, nobody loses 70 pounds in three months without resorting to seriously unhealthy disordered eating and suffering long-term health consequences. Also, you’ll need to specify when the claimed weight loss occured, because eventually the body WILL rebel and return to normal weight (even if that normal is what you consider fat). If you lost it less than five years ago, we’ll see you back when it comes on again. If you lost it more than five years ago, congratulations on being a freak of nature more rare than a lottery winner. If you’re lying and here simply to troll by tossing out silly comments and laughing when someone bites and responds, then piss off. I believe I’ve seen your name before (whether it was you or a sign of unoriginal thinking) on other blog comments with a similar trollish M.O.
800 calories a day? That’s eating disorder territory.
Tell me tom, are you still eating such a small amount? have you returned to normal, healthy levels of calorie intake?
To be fair, it was only really 64 lbs. The rest was water weight at the very end (this was done for a weight loss contest).
I don’t count my calories anymore. My weight has stabilized so I assume I consume somewhere near my bmr, approx. 2000 cal.
If you people in the fatosphere want to choose to be fat, then choose it. I have very little to say about other people’s choices. But own up to it as a choice and be prepared for people to point out bad info being disseminated about weight being a fait accompli.
The racial/cultural implications of the holocaust comparison have already been covered, so I’m not going to review those.
So, two things.
1. I consider it inappropriate to comment under the name “tom brokaw” because I highly doubt that you are the newscaster Tom Brokaw, or that your real name is, in fact, Tom Brokaw; are there any laws about posting like this under someone else’s name?
2. I do agree that anyone can be thin. It’s just a question of how one would get to that point and how healthy/unhealthy that process would be. I doubt there’s anyone who wouldn’t lose weight if on a starvation diet combined with intense physical activity. But even with such conditions, people would lose weight at different paces. For two people to lose the same amount of weight, one might need to net substantially fewer calories than the other person to the point of it being unhealthy. Does “tom brokaw” actually believe that a person should resort to being unhealthy for the sake of being thin?
But own up to it as a choice and be prepared for people to point out bad info being disseminated about weight being a fait accompli.
I don’t think one’s body weight is entirely a “choice,” but I wonder if you also go around interrogating people on their religious “choices” or their “choices” in a spouse, career, cars, children, education, hobbies, etc… It’s called respect — get some.
Thanks again Mo for letting us know about this offensive article. I posted a blog entry about it with ways folks can complain to the newspaper and its publisher, as well as spread the outrage to others.
“Concentration camps existed for one purpose: to use up the life of Holocaust victims either directly, through mass killings, or working and starving people to death (plus the odd medical experimentation thrown in “for the funâ€).”
Exactly. Hitler’s “Final Solution” couldn’t be carried out quickly enough by executions. There were so many Jews to be killed, and only so many personnel and bullets to do the job. Concentration camps were a slow, but sure, way to finish the job.
Prediction: Someone will read Coddington’s statement and see a business opportunity – a concentration camp style fat camp. Hey, it’s guaranteed to work, right?
Using Coddington’s reasoning, there are no fat corpses either.
“Does “tom brokaw†actually believe that a person should resort to being unhealthy for the sake of being thin?”
Apparently, since his weight-loss behavior looks an awful lot like something one would find on a pro-ana site.
Crash diets will kill you. Eat good food, do fun physical activities, and be happy.
@DRST. Exactly. Deborah Coddington’s call for a “tough love†approach to fat people is no less than a call for the social cleansing of them.
Rachel, I don’t remember interrogating anyone. I don’t remember asking any questions of you. I don’t remember querying people on what they eat and how much they exercise. I only remember pointing out a fallacy I commonly see on the fatosphere.
Perhaps when I learn to respect others you can learn to read and comprehend?
In fact, as you can see up there, I was the one interrogated about diet, exercise etc.
Perhaps your fellow fatosphere brethren should learn some respect? According to your own definition of respect of course, not mine.
Okay, so some people can lose weight if they eat a starvation diet (which 800 calories is) and do huge amounts of exercise.
And yes, I did say *some* very deliberately, because everyone’s metabolism is different, and it’s really simplistic to assume that what one person’s body will tolerate, another’s will too, and will have the same results.
I’d wager there are people who could do exactly what “tom brokaw” did and lose less weight, or none at all, or lose a bunch and then regain it.
If I personally could lose weight with a starvation diet and a ton of high-intensity exercise, I wouldn’t do it. So, if by deciding that I don’t want to flirt with an eating disorder, break my metabolism, and do myself permanent physical harm in the pursuit of thinness, I’m “choosing to be fat,” then, okay.
I’m totally all right with amending “People don’t choose their weight” to “For some people, it would take a huge amount of self-harm to become thin.”
Ooooh, this got ugly huh? I mean, it starts out ugly by using concentration camps as an example, straw man or not. It’s in bad taste to do so. Does it make a point? Of course — weight, to a certain extent, is within a person’s control, more so, I think, than height. Of course, as people here have pointed out, genetics do play a role in a person’s weight. But as a fatty myself, I am well aware of the fact that if I choose to eat Wendy’s, it’s my own choice. That choice is influenced by a number of things, but I’m the one eating it. I know this. I am not unhappy nor unloved, but that’s a different point.
I think the point here is that using concentration camps, even as a straw man, to prove that if people just had enough control, they could lose weight is bad form. Yes, just about anybody can be skinny — deathly so — if their calorie intake is drastically reduced and their physical labor drastically increased. Taken NOT to the disgusting and disturbing extreme one then apparently is supposed to “realize” that if only I would stop eating so much and start exercising more, I’d lose weight. In other news: smoking is bad for you. Who knew?
It’s also true that if people force themselves to throw up after every meal or if they refuse to eat (or are refused food), they’ll lose weight. This isn’t news to anyone. BUt if you used anorexia, bulimia, or even cancer to illustrate that anybody can lose weight, I think we’d agree it’s in bad taste.
That’s all there is to it, it’s in bad taste. It cheapens the memories of holocaust survivors. It says that if only fat people were controlled by Nazis, they’d be thinner. oh happy day.
I wonder if Tom Brokaw has seen pictures of concentration camp victims? For the record, those people were not thin. They were emaciated. Because they were starved, beaten, diseased, and worked in conditions that most normal people would never survive.
You do the survivors and the dead a great disservice by using them to try to illustrate a point about WEIGHT. That’s just gross and horrible, and yes, that’s a judgment call, and I’m making against you.
Since “tom brokaw” is using anecdotal evidence, I will add my own:
Tom, I ate 800 calories a day (or less) for months at a time for over a decade. I never lost enough to get out of the “obese” category on the starvation plan, but instead gained massive amounts of weight whenever I went off the starvation diet–and I’m not talking about massive binges either, just a return to an average diet of two meals a day instead of one–in addition to developing other serious health problems (such as loose teeth, hair loss, infertility, high blood pressure from the yo-yo dieting, and a permanently messed-up metabolism) due to malnutrition. I was an anorexic who never got thin.
So you did it for three months and lost 70 pounds, and apparently don’t have any permanent health repercussions. Lucky you. Not everyone is as fortunate.
Hey Tom,
I was you. 100lb weight loss, kept it off for five years. Year six–not so much. Another 80lb loss, another four years…year five, well, you get the point. I’m not trying to freak you out, but in the annals of weight loss “success,” two years really isn’t that long.
I just want to point out that, speaking of straw men, FA believers pretty much universally acknowledge that low calorie diets and extreme exercise do cause weight loss. We are really not denying that, but we have more to say about it.
The “genetics” point isn’t some kind of crazy (straw man) thing about how some people will be fat even if they eat nothing but rainbows.
But just like there are those people who struggle to put on weight, no matter how much they eat, there are bodies that gravitate toward fat storage. These bodies can lose weight, of course (and I would guess that most people here can attest to that), but they can also become very, very efficient at calorie use. Fat will stop coming off, and often start going on again, under all but the most extreme (death-inducing) circumstances.
(Not a perfect example, but look at this way if you can: you can starve a whale or a manatee to death, but that doesn’t mean that those animals aren’t genetically programmed to have large amounts of body fat.)
Tom, I don’t know if your body is one of these genetically programmed fat storers. Maybe you were a naturally thin guy who got pushed up into higher territory by unusual circumstances. But what you say you did to get where you are is, according to pretty much every scientist everywhere, extreme. Hell, even the US government uses higher calorie counts that as part of “enhanced interrogation techniques.”
I’m not trying to tell you what you should or shouldn’t do with your body. I just need to say that the jury is still out on your case. Will you still be 64lbs lighter in another 3 years? Have you suffered physical damage, which may show up later in life, due to your course of action?
My only point in bringing it up is that you seem to want to use yourself as an example, a kind of, “Well, I did it, so that proves it can be done!” And I call bullshit on that because, as I said, the jury is still out.
And even if, after five years, you are still slender, and you never have the slightest physical or psychological repercussion…well, that’s still one person out of how many millions of others? Somebody’s gonna win the Lotto, but that doesn’t mean I’m justified in believing that spending all my income tickets is a wise move.
So, I’ll do you a favor, Tom. Unilaterally, on behalf of the entire fat acceptance movement, I will cede your point, such as it is, SINCE WE WERE NEVER DENYING IT IN THE FIRST PLACE: it is possible for genetically fat people to lose weight.
So yes, we don’t deny that you can “control” your weight. Anyone can starve to death.
What we do deny is that it is possible, for most people, to “control” weight, in the long term, without EXTREMELY significant damage, both to the body and the mind.
We also deny that is desirable to “control” weight, regardless of the price.
Also, Tom, I just want to make sure you know that:
“I’d wager this comment won’t make it through moderation anyway, as it seems in my experience the fatosphere is too intellectually insecure to deal with rational points stated calmly and without ad hominem attacks. Speaks volumes about you guys doesn’t it?”
is, in fact, an ad hominem attack, and a rather blatant one at that.
And, hey, I don’t mean to monopolize the thread, but I am really curious. Why are you here, Tom?
I don’t mean that as a veiled “get the hell out.” I, for one, don’t mind you here, and I really do want to know what your purpose is. I mean, clearly, you don’t agree…so…
does coming here make you feel better because you believe you’ve done something you think we’re too weak to do?
are you trying to piss us off because you like drama?
are you trying to convince us?
are you trying to be convinced?
Please, satisfy my curiosity.
Elizabeth is my hero of the day. Very well put.
Tom, really, nobody needs to be hated or insulted for their own good. That’s kind of the parallel you’re drawing in the concentration camp example. Though you may argue “no no, I didn’t mean STARVE” and “no of course I don’t think concentration camps were a good thing” basically, if you’re going to use that kind of jackassery logic you need to own up to the fact that basically, you support fat people torturing themselves into thinness via any means possible. Beat up with all kinds of “I’m not saying that” and “you’re taking my words out of context” all you want, but basically, you’re supporting bigotry and wouldn’t be terribly opposed to some kind of fatty concentration camp. Here’s the thing. Sure, I have the genetic capacity to be about 50 lbs lighter, I once anorexed myself down to the “normal” BMI category on about 600-800 calories a day and about 3-6 hours of exercise. Sure, I was thin, but I was by no means healthy and it didn’t take long for my body to rebel, despite the fact that I continued my starvation and gain the weight back, plus some. Not to mention the damage I did to my previously perfectly healthy right knee and back problems I’d never had BEFORE depriving my overworked muscles of nutrients. Not to mention the stress it put on my heart (fast weight fluctuation CAN harm your heart you know, in fact, often a damn sight more than an extra lb or so here and there can).
You make the case “sure, some of us have a harder time [getting thin] than others” yet somehow that’s really neither here nor there. In fact, the fact that you’ve included an acknowledgment of the fact that people’s bodies behave differently yet remain steadfast in your claim that still everyone must overcome whatever obstacle just to look a certain way rather than allow their bodies to be as they will, learn to love and treat them nicely, and ultimately, achieve a healthier body and mind.
If you’re so jumped up about facts, you should probably consult a few books not dedicated to selling you a weight loss product like Linda Bacon’s “Health at Every Size” and another book by the title of “The Obesity Myth” both of which have numerous medical articles and studies and books as reference.
Lastly, your experience with weight loss was achieved by unhealthy means, there is no argument. The Minnesota Starvation experiment some 50 years ago concluded that actually any caloric intake of less than 1600 calories a day was starvation. I don’t begrudge you your weight loss, your body is certainly yours to do with what you will, however, I do feel you did your body a disservice pitting your intake at a much MUCH lower level than recommended. But again, I’m not going to point my finger at you and shout “UNHEALTHY! STUPID! ETC!” instead, I”m going to say that as your body is yours to do with what you will, so is everyone else’s, and to assume that just because something worked for your body and therefore can work for everyone else’s is just naive to the extreme. Not to mention that the assumption that just because something worked for you and therefore SHOULD be implemented for everyone else actually is the kind of thought process Hitler had.
Basically, you’re welcome to mutilate your own body as you see fit, but quite frankly, everyone’s body is their own to use as they see fit and it is not up to you or anyone else to decide what’s best for everyone else. This cultural demand for some arbitrary standard of “beauty” and an image we have of a body of “peak health” (which is pretty darn debatable considering Bacon mentions and cites several references that note that there actually haven’t been many studies proving a whole heck of a lot, if any, LONG TERM benefits to weight loss) is the rape of body sovereignty and it’s about fucking time people started saying so. I’m sorry you have such a problem with that.
In fact, as you can see up there, I was the one interrogated about diet, exercise etc.
No, it was only after your first offered your own unsolicited “If I can do it, you can too!” anecdote that people called you out on what appears to be a very unhealthy and extreme weight loss. Don’t cry the wounded martyr act when you’re the one with the bloody spear.
And, in essence, you ARE interrogating everyone here even if you don’t ask specific questions of anyone in particular. You deliberately come to a body acceptance site and crow about how “wrong” everyone is because you and the Jewish Holocaust victims lost weight! and yet this is somehow not impugning or tacitly questioning the lives of others? I highly doubt you would go to a support board for grieving military widows and tell them that it was their “choice” to marry a soldier and therefore they should suck it up and expect to be derided for their “choice” of a spouse or go to a Sunday services at a church and stand up mid-sermon and tell the parishioners how “wrong” they are for their religious beliefs all the while maintaining how you’re the one being persecuted by them.
So, comprehend this: If you want to choose to be offensive and assumptive, so choose it. But don’t come here and expect to be welcome with open chubby arms, either.
This is completely beside the point, but now I really want to make “we welcome you with open chubby arms” a site tagline.
You know, every time I read about the professor who’s quoted here (and the articles agreeing with him, etc.), I wind up spending five or ten minutes wondering what would happen to him if he came to Germany and started spouting off that drivel. In other words, I wonder if it would fall under the German laws about glorifying Nazism or denying the severity/existence of the Holocaust. (Since the likelyhood of me, descended from people who lost the families they left behind in the 20s/30s in the Holocaust, doing ANYthing anywhere close to any of that is highly unlikely, I haven’t investigated the wording of the laws or how broad they are.)