Flying the fat unfriendly skies
I love to travel but hate to fly. I don’t overlap into the next seat and I can put down the armrest, but I’m also very aware of the discomfort (perceived or real) of my seatmate so instead I hold an origami yoga position for the duration of the flight, jamming as much of my top half into the spare few inches you gain by having the window seat. If I have to sit in a middle seat, I’ll take the next flight. There’s been a lot on the news about various airlines shouting j’accuse! at obese passengers paying the same rate for a seat as a thin person while justifying charging for baggage due to the extra weight, with all of the comment threads turning into a chorus of “fat people should buy two seats, ya fatties!”
Well, traveler Evan tried to do just that, but Delta has made it practically impossible. They can’t sell two tickets to one passenger and even if he buys it by using his middle initial on the ticket to differentiate the names, Delta might just use the seat for another passenger if they need it. They can’t even guarantee that the seats will be adjoining, so sorry, sir, 90% of your body will be in 7A, but the other 10% will be back in 28F.Evan is understandably flustered. He told Consumerist:
Okay, I’m big. You can hate me for it if you want, it seems to be all the rage, but if I’m willing to pay double, what’s the problem? Why isn’t my money good enough? By not allowing me to purchase the tickets, and by making it very difficult to find information or use online services, it really amounts to discrimination. Shame on you, Delta.
To be honest, I’ve flown Delta a few times and found them delightful (and their employees have been a shining example of customer service) but it sounds like some policies haven’t been fully sussed out by Delta yet. Have you guys had problems flying? Has anyone ever had to buy two seats, either voluntarily or been told by a, say, Southwest gate agent that they couldn’t fly without buying a second ticket?
Posted by Weetabix
My husband and I bought an extra seat on a flight from DC to Long Beach on Jet Blue a few years ago. (I had the window, he took the aisle, and the empty was between us. It was awesome on the long overnight flight.) Anyhoo, this was no problem at all; I even booked it through Jet Blue’s webpage. Their instructions were to purchase seats in each of our names, and then book the extra with “Extra Seat” as the first name, plus our last name. Worked great. No hassles, and we didn’t even have to deal with a real human being while booking.
We’d both flown Jet Blue before, and fit fine into their seats (which always seem roomier and more comfortable to me), but we just didn’t fancy being all squished together with a sleeping stranger. No one gave us any crap about it at all at the airport or on the plane.
I’ve flown once and it was a good experience. I flew Midwest and the seats were just 2 per aisle. While not what I would call comfortable-are airplane seats ever?- they weren’t horrendous and I wasn’t squished in there. On my flight back, I was seated next to a man that was tall and very broad shouldered and even with my obese ass sitting next to him we didn’t have any issues.
But I have heard horror stories about how tiny the seats are when there is 3 to an aisle and I know I would not fit comfortably or without totally offending the person next to me. (sigh) Ideally, I’d only ever fly Midwest, after that wonderful experience I had (also I have issues with unfamiliar things so I have less anxiety if it’s an airline I’m familiar with) but I know that is not realistic.
Shame on Delta, though. Add that to my small but growing list of airlines I know I will never use.
I fly a bit, and it is always a horrorshow.
I don’t have any more trouble fitting in the seats than everyone else whose hips are wider than 17″ (which is to say everyone), and can usually put the armrest down, but the entire experience is a terrible task of judging myself and my body through the eyes of my fellow passengers. It is painful to be forced to do that, because it’s something I avoid pretty successfully in my everyday life.
More than that, though, I hate flying because there is no guarantee that you are going to get where you had planned to go. In fact, there is no guarantee anymore that you will ever leave your starting point. If you do make it to your destination, there is no guarantee that you will have your luggage or your travelling companions, or that you will make it in time for whatever the reason you were travelling in the first place. What the hell kind of business model is that? If airlines want to make a profit ever again, they should really address the problems at the core of their business model, and being willing to treat their passengers badly would surely be part of that.
I’m certainly oversimplifying here (need coffee NOW), but can’t they just make all airplane seats bigger? And no more than two by a window? Everyone wins.
When I mention this, people say “Oh, but then they’ll raise ticket prices!” As if they’re not raising ticket prices every five minutes anyway.
I can fit into the small seats now and I still want them bigger.
Lastly, I was seated next to a larger woman once and our arms had to touch during the flight. We both survived that unspeakably horrific experience (rolling my eyes). Seriously, we’re getting so phobic about ANY person-to-person contact in this world. I don’t mind our arms touching as long as you don’t cough on me.
I’ve not really had any negative flying experiences but I always feel judged, even if I’m not. I haven’t had any bad experiences sitting next to a bigger person or a smaller person. Except for some men, who, regardless of size, just sprawl out all over with their legs spread to accommodate their hugenormous schlongs.
I always feel like livestock when I fly. We’re all crammed up in that space together and we just want to get where we’re going (okay, so maybe livestock don’t but you get what I’m saying). I don’t understand why people have to be so douchey about it. NO ONE IS COMFORTABLE. YOU WILL SURVIVE.
I recently flew from NC to California with two flight segments. I’m obese, but apple shaped and fit in airplane seats, so I didn’t anticipate any problems. However, on the first flight, my seatmate (next to the window) was a broad shouldered overweight man who greatly exhibited the “phantom” penis syndrome and sprawled very much into my space! How ironic that I might someday be forced to buy an extra seat based on BMI or similar charting, but this man probably wouldn’t be. I felt more squished that I have ever felt before, but I did survive. Of the other 3 flights on that trip, I was able to enjoy my own teeny space. The best solution would be bigger seats, but I’m not holding my breath.
When I can afford it, I try to buy two seats. The only airline that lets you do that easily is JetBlue. The other ones won’t guarantee that you’ll get two seats, or make you pay more to call an agent to book the two seats. And, no they will not honor the internet price.
I fly JetBlue for 99% of my airline travel. The staff is awesome. I have always been treated like I’m a special guest, rather than some offensive obese person who dares to sully the plane with her presence.
I pre-board, ask for an extension when I pre-board and lift up the arm on the aisle seat and I’m ready to go.
Did you know that those arms go up on the outside aisle? I flew for nearly 20 years without knowing that. In 2005 a JetBlue attendant showed me how and now I’m always comfy in my aisle seat and I do not affect anyone sitting next to me. Yes, occasionally I get slightly bumped by the cart as it goes down the aisle, but otherwise, I’m comfy as can be.
““phantom†penis syndrome”.
Ha ha ha ha!
That, to me, is always a MUCH bigger problem when flying that I’ve ever had being plus sized.
Or the “normal” size folks with a dvd player, a laptop, 3 newspapers, a book, an iPod, and 3 bags spilling everywhere, who insist on taking both armrests at all times.
Or the people who recline their seat all the way for the whole flight.
Or anyone over 5’3 whose legs are jammed into the back of my seat (as mine are into the seat in front of me).
Air travel just sucks, no matter what. Being “obese” is no different than any of the 5 million other ways your personal space gets invaded on a plane.
I fly a lot and for long distances–mainly from coast to coast or to Europe and within Europe. I LOVE to travel, but flying creates a lot of anxiety for me. When I first started flying–in 1995–I only flew to Europe and the seats on 777-type plains were actually bigger than they are now. At that time my size 30ish hips fit fine, though I needed a seat belt extender.
Starting in 2000 I began to fly the cross-country/Euro-land routes, but I had also become somewhat smaller–I was between a 26 and a 20 for about six years or so and I found that although I was much more comfortable in those shrinking airline seats and no longer required a seat belt extender, I still *felt* like I was scary to other passengers. Thankfully, planes were really pretty empty for most of those years and I usually got an open seat next to me.
That all kind of leads up to right now where I’m back to the 28/30 land of sizes and I just flew coast to coast twice. The second time the flight was full both ways and I was crammed into the corner. I was flying in a 17.0 inch seat and got a nice little mark from their armrest. Joy. Both ways the folks sitting next to me were really nice and started a conversation with me despite my discomfort.
By the way, this flight and many others has been on Southwest and I’ve never been asked to buy an extra seat. I actually have only ever had great customer service from them despite their tiny seats.
Now I’m getting ready to spend the summer in Europe and I just spent maybe three weeks solid trying to find a flight in economy where the seats weren’t going to kill me. I’m actually going to drive five hours to Toronto and fly Air Canada because their 777s still have 18.5 inch seats in economy (unlike all American airlines that have put smaller seats in). Will I be comfortable in 18.5? Probably not…but I have to travel for my job so I’m going to try and ignore the problems.
By the way, I just got out of graduate school and have massive student debt and I’m traveling on a limited fellowship budget. Despite that fact, I looked into this *why don’t you fly business/first and pay more* argument/possibility because I am so worried about this flight.
Here’s what I found:
I paid $855 for my economy seat. The same seat in biz/1st is $4000. I would pay maybe 600 or 800 more roundtrip for a bigger seat, but almost FIVE TIMES the economy fair??
The sad thing is that this problem of fitting in seats without causing harm to myself is making me start to curtail my traveling. I almost thought of not going to Europe this year–even though I got a fellowship to go. I’ve decided to not go to an academic conference because I didn’t want to put up with tiny seats to the west coast again. And, I’ve started driving to places I used to fly to.
It’s sad that I’m being punished by an industry that has been repeatedly bailed out by tax-payers dollars. And, an industry that is regulated by the government as well. I have to say, not only does traveling from Canada give me an extra 1.5 inches in seat width, I feel more comfortable flying from a country that recognizes that even fat people (*look of horror*/*shudder*) deserve to fly.
Okay, off my high horse.
Airlines mystify me. The industry has been common since the 1960s, and yet these basics of customer service – comfort, cleanliness and kindness – seems to elude them constantly.
I’ve flown Delta, and liked the flight part quite well, but encountered problems when I had to run two miles in 8 minutes to catch a connecting flight in Atlanta. I’m still rather proud I made it, although the flight attendant was chuckling, which is not a wise thing to do to a winded and angry passenger.
It seems like the wildly spiraling profit models in airlines cause wildly spiraling situations for their customers, most of which are unnecessary and easily accommodated.
“I don’t have any more trouble fitting in the seats than everyone else whose hips are wider than 17″ (which is to say everyone), and can usually put the armrest down, but the entire experience is a terrible task of judging myself and my body through the eyes of my fellow passengers. It is painful to be forced to do that, because it’s something I avoid pretty successfully in my everyday life.”
This.
The last time I flew was (delta?) last summer and I could fit in the seats with an extension but it’s that judgment that’s the very worst part. I was seated next to family, so they weren’t concerned, but every time I went up and down the aisle to the bathroom I knew people were glaring at me as I tried to get by without bumping them.
I’m terrified that, flying American (and a commuter jet on one leg to boot) this summer, I’m going to get told I have to buy an extra seat.
I think that if I do, my husband will freak out (unfortunately, he’s not flying with me or it wouldn’t be an issue) and sue them. He’s “average” size and thinks the entire issue is, flat out, sheer discrimination.
I fly Southwest often enough to have earned free tickets (yay!). I almost always buy 2 seats for myself (wish the stinkers would give me credit for THAT towards the free flights). I weight 375 and have big glorious hips; I really don’t fit in one teeny seat. On Southwest, if you are flying fat (okay, as a customer of size), you get to pre-board (you have to ask for the “blue” pre-board pass when you check in). This ensures I get my 2 seats together. If Hubby-dear is flying with me, he gets to pre-board, too. In the last year, on 6 flights, I was able to get a refund for the extra seat 5 of the times (since the flights weren’t full). Not bad. They make it easy to sign up (I put my first name in one ticket and my first initial on the second) and they will refund the second seat if the flight wasn’t full. I’ve never been denied the second seat. I may hate their policy but it does work okay.
I always check JetBlue and Midwest airlines (heard good things about their comfort), but so far my schedule and their flights have never matched.
I’m not plus enough to have an issue squeezing into my seat, but I am in a wheelchair. Delta has always gone above and beyond accommodating me, whether it be with helping me to me seat, moving people around so I don’t have to have them step over me to get in and out of their seats or just generally being nice. If I am flying alone, it will always be on Delta. I am sure if enough people pointed out the issue with not being able to buy an extra seat that they would fix it.
I will never fly American again, though. My husband is a trim 6’1″ and can’t fit into their seats comfortably, not to mention that two years ago they misrouted and lost a very expensive beach wheelchair then told me at least I still had my manual chair, and were very rude about it, to boot. I had to take it to the point of calling their corporate office to get them to replace it. Ironically, I got the chair frame back a few months later when someone found it in a storage room at a completely unrelated airport and called me using the number we had engraved on it. Someone had trashed the balloon tires, though.
@Amy: WTF, American Airlines! I would expect an airline to not be assholes about losing a freaking wheelchair, for heaven’s sake.
I’m so afraid of flying fat that the night before flying, I often can’t sleep, as my mind is racing with scenarios where I’m not able to board the plane until I buy another ticket (I make less than $200 a week, currently, so that is not an option at ALL), or I sit next to someone who is really rude to me about being fat and the airline totally backs them up because of course, it’s my fault! Shouldn’t have gotten fat via my two fat parents, now should I?
I, like a lot of people, was pretty stressed out by the recent United change. I fit into the tiny seats, but the armrest is often on top of my hip, so I’m more comfortable with it up.
I flew on United a few weeks after the change in their policy (about a month ago), across the country with friends in Economy Plus one way. No one (in terms of United employees) hassled me about anything, although I was pretty stressed about it. My friend and I put the armrest up between us and were fine. And my (teeny tiny) friend was originally supposed to fly in the row ahead of us (she bought her ticket late); we asked the guy who was seated between me (aisle) and my other friend (window) to switch with middle girl, which he did. I noticed later that he’d ended up with 2 other broad shouldered guys, and they looked pretty squeezed… but I seriously doubt any of them were worrying about being asked to buy a second seat/kicked off the plane!
I flew back solo in First class (miles upgrade), and fit gloriously comfortably into that seat. Of course, there’d be no way I could ever afford to just BUY a business/first class ticket.
In a week I fly on Southwest, and I’m already worrying about this shit…
Point of my boring, uneventful story is that YES, everyone is uncomfortable. If I have to buy an extra seat to accomodate my hips, then so do those broad-shouldered (or shlong-y) guys, or people with energetic kids, or… And the psychological build-up to flying sucks.
If the planes put in wider seat sections, like they do on United with Economy Plus, I bet people (fat and thin and everything else) would buy them up in a second… I already buy EcPlus in order to get the legroom.
Everyone’s miserable. We’ll pay to be more comfortable, but we shouldn’t have to pay anywhere from twice to five times the amount to do so, especially if other people who are encroaching on others’ space don’t have to as well.
“If the planes put in wider seat sections, like they do on United with Economy Plus”
Oh, I meant that they do in terms of leg room. Why not have one or a few rows that are wider and have more leg space? You could easily get a couple hundred out of me for that, no problem. (Yes yes, expensive to retrofit, I don’t care).
I fly pretty regularly and I hate it. Loathe it. I get bruised and battered every trip. I was excited when United started offering their seats with more leg room – I will always be willing to pay $50 more for less physical abuse. They they put in their two-seat policy. I’m heartbroken. I was hoping to have at least one option for flying internationally that didn’t have ridiculous policies.
I really hate how the cattle car mentality of flying has made us all “hate” the other people we’re flying with. These people haven’t done anything to me, but because of the horrible planes no one can get comfortable and so everyone is a little surly. What fun! Trap me in THAT tube in the air for four hours.
Or the people who recline their seat all the way for the whole flight.
I think THIS is one of the biggest problems I have ever encountered too. You can’t do anything if the person in front of you has reclined all the way back or even a tiny bit back. I have pretty long legs and I’m already uncomfortable when my knees aren’t smashed into the back of a reclined seat.
I hate flying too. A little tip though if you ever have to fly from Chicago to Amsterdam – fly KLM/Northwestern. I never had a problem, I never had a problem with the seat belts even when I was a size 28, the seats are large and comfortable and you have your own little screen where you can pick a movie or TV series to watch with lot’s of choices.
I actually also liked to fly United if its between big cities or overseas. I am very comfortable on their big planes. I was really disappointed to hear that they implemented this new rule which for me means that I will not be using them anymore.
I have always had a good experience flying with Qantas and British Airways. (BA owns nearly half of Qantas anyway) and Virgin Blue (domestic Australian). I fit into the seats, though it’s a little more comfortable with the armrests up, and I have size 26 hips. I need a seatbelt extender by only 1/2″! The flight attendants have never, ever been rude about me asking for an extender, and while I’m not embarassed to ask, they do hand it to you very discreetly.
I’ve also read through their policies on two seats for larger customers, and it seems they recognise that most people who really don’t fit in one seat will buy a second seat anyway, so there’s no need to police it. They just ask that you call them and let them know the second seat is for yourself.
Thumbs up for those airlines.
I just wanted to say that I love Delta. Love them. Two months ago, I flew from Philadelphia to South Africa, and it was the most uncomfortable 18 hours of my life. But the flight attendants were so nice, and the plane itself was clean and nice-looking, so I won’t blame them. In fact, I don’t like to blame anyone for my discomfort. I just take it as a necessary evil, and try to dismiss and forget about it as soon as I get to where I’m going.
As a person with normal seat issues (i.e. I’m really short, don’t need extra leg room, and have no need for seat belt extenders or two seats etc. but I’m still just an uncomfortable as everyone else)…
I have a harder time flying next to GUYS with broad shoulders. Their shoulders stick out into my seat area, and b/c their shoulders are wide, they hog the arm rest too. And, why is it that parents can travel with a child on their lap (i.e. 2 ppl in one seat) when other ppl are forced to buy 2 seats? I hate when I am forced to sit next to parents with a lap child. Also, phantom penis problem is hysterical. That happens everywhere – buses, trains, park benches. Must be something in the water causing all these size deformities preventing guys from closing their legs. ;-)
Oh, and sorry, but I’m also a sinner. I recline my seat for the entire trip. Sorry, the person in front of me is reclined all the way. I think the trick is that everyone has to recline together. (Also, it’s the only way to sleep, and as a short person, the headrest portion of the seat doesn’t support my head so much as hit me at the back of my head (not at my neck) so if I don’t recline, I’m actually leaning forward. Uncomfortable!)
I’m getting ready to fly later today on Northwest. Although I’m fat and curvy, I’ve never had a problem more extreme than anyone else. I try to get a window seat (an aisle will do, just never the middle) and keep my stuff in my space. Hopefully today will be a good experience. From past travel on NW, I’m anticipating nothing but good.
Oh, and I meant to add: my problems on airplanes are less about physical space than personal space. Here’s a tip for the infrequent flyer: if the person next to you gets his/her bags put away, cracks open a book, has his/her ipod earbuds in and makes no more eye contact than, say, a nod and smile when you sit down, they probably have NO interest in a conversation. At least this one doesn’t. So leave her/him alone, and tell your boring stories to the person on your other side. When I travel, I’m not looking to have a three hour conversation about your great-aunt Mabel’s impetigo. Seriously.
JetBlue has rows where you can pay an extra $10 for extra legroom. WHY can’t we make a few rows with extra width too?
Also, I tend to be the beeotch that will passive aggressively knee the back of your seat if you lean back on me. Consider yourselves warned. :)
I can’t stand to fly and do it as little as possible. I do ride the L in Chicago and if I spill over into a seat too bad! The same people who give me dirty looks are the same people who scream into their cell phones or blast their ipods which are both torture. I have noticed something though. When I sit on the isle seat, I never touch the person next to me. I always leave room. I notice other fat women do this too. It is average or slender people who have never been made to feel self-conscious who always crowd me, insist via body language they need every inch of the isle seat and sometimes move if they don’t get it. I just had that happen to me recently. Some Skokie whimp sat next to me, but my shoulder was bothering me so I didn’t feel like scrunching. He made a big deal out of repositioning himself several times and then moving. Another BBW came and sat next to me just fine. Since I experience much discomfort in life, I have NO sympathy at all. ( Try having a broken wrist and no health insurance!) It took all I could do not to call him a big whimp. Everyone inconveniences someone at some point, I am going to stop worrying about it. The rest of the world can just get over it!!!!!
I have an idea! what if we make a website asking airlines to make wider seats? or write to congress to make a law or something like that.
If we do not speak up to the, they will never hear us or change anything.
Lets be pro-active maybe will be lucky enough to be heard.
Does anyone knows how to build a website? any suggestions, help, ideas?