BBWOMGWTF?
Does anyone remember BBW Magazine? The founder, Carole Shaw, coined the term “BBW’ back in 1979, meant to be an attempt at fat pride (although one could argue that the message was hidden behind an acronym, much like the models inside said magazine hid behind tunics and drapey jackets) but has been taken over as shorthand for Craigslist ads and fetish websites.
When I first heard the term, back in the 80’s, I was all “Oooh, hell yeah!” but I realized recently that I haven’t thought of myself as a BBW in at least a decade. I hadn’t really figured out what bugged me about the acronym and its slumming on the internet until I read this post from Curvature. (Link mildly NSFW)
… “BBW†translates to “disrespect.†Women who claim their BBW-ness are disrespecting themselves by connecting their identities to a phrase so tied in with depravity and lack of self-respect. Men (usually fetishists) who claim to love BBWs really love the sexual nature of the woman or her body, not for her confidence, tastes, or intelligence. They are disrespecting women by writing on someone’s Xpeeps wall “Hey you gorgeous BBW.†Blech. It’s as bad as saying, “Hey you gorgeous piece of meat. BBW might as well mean “Big Beastly Whore†as far as I’m concerned.
Oooh, ouch. What do you guys think? Is it time to reclaim BBW? Do you label yourself? Do we even need to have a label to define us? What’s an acronym-less girl to do?
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The blogger at Curvature really has an issue with porn and the “objectification of women.” The term BBW is just a symptom of what they see as a larger problem. If you believe objectification is a problem, it’s not much of a leap to also see BBW as problem. Conversely, if you don’t buy in to the whole objectification thing, then BBW probably shouldn’t bother you.
I’ve never felt the need for labels and to me BBW and the like sounded kind of condescending. Why can’t we all just be “beautiful women”? Why does size have to enter into it at all?
Just like to point out that I’ve never liked using that acronym, about as much as I hate the words, “curvy” and “plus-sized” and what they’ve become through repetition.
It doesn’t roll off of the tongue easily and it’s constantly being “hilariously” redefined by “clever” trolls. I’m attracted to larger women, so I hear and read it a lot.
In fact, I just plain despise semantics in general. Who’s with me? CAN I GET A WHUT WHUT?
I find most/all of her arguments completely baseless, if not just *silly*. I mean really, the letter B reminding you of “fat things”????? What? That makes no logical sense.
Her other main argument is also silly. In a nutshell she seems to hate the term BBW because of it’s association with porn sites for admirers of fat women. I agree with John that her major issue is with porn and “objectification” of women. I’ve never been one of the feminists that loathed porn. I look at the picture she shows of the woman in red lingerie and see nothing wrong with it. I see a woman in nice lingerie, with a pretty hairdo and nice makeup, in a sexy pose. I don’t find it repugnant or degrading. Some of the porn sites are, but that one doesn’t seem in the least degrading. In fact, I found pictures such as that empowering. I used to believe I’d never find anyone that thought my “flab” was sexy. But seeing pictures like that online and in magazines made me realize that there were men that would find me sexy. Is it degrading for me to wear lingerie and lipstick and pose like that for my man? Or just for many men? And why is it degrading? I don’t get it. Besides, should cheerleaders stop calling themselves that because there is cheerleader porn? Oh noes the word cheerleader has now become degrading! Does not compute.
I think that in context, this mag was probably a great idea – at the time, there wasn’t a name or anything for large women (I guess…I wasn’t born yet!), so they had to coin something. I think that at this time it’s archaic and has been warped into something else entirely.
Though I think they go a little extreme with the BBW=porn=automatic disrespect thing…being sexy and sexual doesn’t necessarily mean you’re being disrespected. People are sexual, they will look at each other sexually. There is a point at which, yes, it will become disrespectful, but looking at a lingerie photo of a fat chick because you think she’s hot doesn’t have to mean you have no respect for her. It just means you think she’s foxy.
The blogger comes across as pretty judgy, honestly, so I have a hard time getting behind her completely. At the same time I’ve always found the acronym to be kind of creepy. It just feels gross in a way I can’t quite explain.
I also hate how it’s used sometimes by guys trying to “prove” how “open minded” and “sensitive” they are because they are “willing” to date fat girls. Ugh.
Beth C., that’s my issue too. I can’t quite put my finger on why I keep trying to dissociate myself with the term. It’s flattering, after all. Maybe it’s the presumptuous nature of it? The implication that “big”=”beautiful”?
I’ve never liked the term BBW. Actually, I don’t like labels in general, but that one, to me, seems abnormally annoying. I shouldn’t have to tell people whether I’m beautiful, big, OR a woman with a 3-letter abbreviation. Also, it’s an extremely subjective term, one I’ve seen applied to women anywhere from size 10 and upward, and therefore useless as a descriptive term. Then again, “fat” is also fairly subjective as a descriptive term, considering all of the “average” sized women who consider themselves fat regardless of how others view them…
Wow. I’ve never had a problem with the term BBW, but then I’ve never thought about it much. It doesn’t really bother me, but then again I’m not vehemently opposed to the very idea of pornography. What startled me about the blog entry was the amount of undisguised fat-hate on display for a blog devoted to fat feminism. I mean really:
“…the letter ‘B’ just reminds me of…fat things. Perhaps it’s the fact that the letter letter, in capitals, has to large bulbs making up its entire body. It’s unappealing.”
“…just hearing or seeing the phrase ‘BBW’ conjures disgusting images in my head of nude or semi-nude obese women busting out of their too-tight lingerie, mounds of fat and rolls of lard displayed for the whole world to see.”
“It’s not sexy – it’s repugnant. These women are flaunting a lack of values and a lack of self-respect.”
So naked fat women are “unappealing,” “disgusting,” or “repugnant.” I’ll be sure to inform my boyfriend before we have sex again. Is the message supposed to be that being “fat” is fine as long as you don’t take your clothes off and risk grossing other people out with your mounds of fat and rolls of lard?
I’m on the fence about the term though I think that blogger may be a little bit overly sensitive about the connotations, I do see her point.
I used to find it quite flattering because to me, for most of my life, my prevailing thought was that big could not equal beautiful. It wasn’t the way I saw other women but it was definitely how I saw myself. So when I heard this term and began to see photos of women that looked like me in lingerie and fashionable, flattering clothing, my perception began to change.
I’ve never been able to quite put into words how it makes me feel recently but I just want to be seen as beautiful or sexy or desirable or fun to be with, not as a “BBW”. And I certainly don’t want to be wanted because I am fat, or in spite of it. I’m also really sickened by the notion that only fat fetishists would even want me. How about just wanting me because I am me?
The term BBW basically equals the “but you have such a pretty face” compliment.
As Kristine already said – why can a woman not just be called beautiful, why does one have to add “big”?
Why does weight have to be a defining character wether somebody is considered beautiful?
I guess I’m good with being a “woman.” My bigness or potential beauty will be abundantly evident so it hardly needs mentioning. I guess I’ve always felt like the BBW description was some kind of beauty ghetto, as if the beauty fat women had was somehow different than the beauty slim women had. Discount gorgeousness–you’re pretty, for a fat girl? Which sounds an awful lot like the hated “you’d be so pretty if you’d just lose weight.” If you find me pretty, great. If you don’t, whatever. It’s not important for me to identify as beautiful. Some days I is, some days I ain’t, just like everyone else.
I’ve never referred to myself as a BBW. I’m not a fan of cutesy acronyms anyway. But I won’t judge women who do, for a lot of them it is a term of empowerment in the face of fat hate.
I agree the author is being too harsh. I don’t think there is anything wrong with saying so and so is hot or sexy, as long as you don’t become degrading or compare them to meat and things like that.
I also don’t get her assumption that all men who like large women have a fetish. I do realize there are guys out there who are chubby chasers and only see the body, not anything else, but I sincerely doubt most men who are dating or married to large women are in the relationship just for sexual objectification.
I wasn’t a BBW in 1979, and I don’t think I even had an opinion about the phrase then, I was just a kid. But I am a big girl now, and while I don’t think of myself as a “BBW” it doesn’t offend me. Maybe there are still one or two big women who need to hear the word “beautiful” after the word “big” to get on with their Fat Acceptance, and if so — that’s okay with me. I am all for making more big girl terms good than cutting down our options. I’ve come all the way around to being happy with the word “fat” which I never expected to do.
Now about objectifications of women’s bodies — let’s please get all the women big and small on the page first because objectification affects everyone, not just the bodacious fatties.
You all have cut me to the bone!
As one of the first freelancers to work at BBW (beginning in 1979 and continuing through 1997), I can tell you that the magazine’s birth was a revelation for countless people. For its target audience, who could see gorgeous size 18/20 models wearing the latest styles, things the readers could actually BUY – you have no idea what that was like. It sure woke up a LOT of designers and manufacturers to the fact that we were out here with money to spend and wanted to spend it on really good clothes…just like all their size 8 customers.
The term BBW (and I don’t know if it was coined by Carole, her husband/business partner Ray or some other copywriter) was meant to impart a feeling of pride: yes, we’re BIG and we’re BEAUTIFUL! You have no clue what a concept that was in 1979 unless you were THERE and had seen what had come before. Here we were: big women who weren’t about to hide our light under the proverbial bushel, or our bodies under the until then ubiquitous bullet-p[roof polyester pull-ons or muumuus. We were healthy, happy women, putting ourselves into the world with confidence and style; believe me, BBW helped a LOT of women to come out of the baggy-clothing closet and begin to develop confidence in themselves. I don’t know how many pieces I wrote for the magazine, but do recall that many of them were aimed at building women’s self-respect.
As far as being objectified…hey, honey, you may object to that sort of thing when you’re young, but when you pass a certain point, the idea that you’re still desirable (and hey – guys who like THIN women like ’em for their bodies first – what do you think they see when they meet a woman, her brain?) and lusted after, it’s just plain flattering! Oh, and it’s no different from a woman’s POV. Be honest: how often have you and your gal pals sat around saying, “Look at the six-pack on that guy!”, “Check HIM out! I could eat that buff bod with a spoon!” Unless you actually talk to the guy, how do you know if he even HAS a brain? What you notice first is the great shoulders, the adorable ass and those great legs.
It’s what feminism is about on some really primal level: what’s sauce for the goose…
I kinda hate “code words” for fat. I think it buys into fat shame, aka “Use this code word for fat, so the people looking for fat people will know what you’re talking about and the people who AREN’T looking for fat people will be none the wiser. It’s secret! because God forbid the normal, English-speaking Western world knows that you’re actually talking about FAT, which is embarrassing.” The abbreviation doesn’t even STAND for “fat.” The code word “big-boned” isn’t enough, we also have to abbreviate the damn thing.
Being fat isn’t a kink. Using the abbreviation BDSM because you don’t want people “not in the know” knowing about your private pasttimes is fine by me. But what you look like? It’s not an action, it’s a state of being. Dancing around a state of being implies that it’s somehow abnormal, kinky, shameful, whatever. And God knows we don’t need any more fat shame than there already is.
I’m with Kate Harding – Fat is Fat, so let’s call it that.
A little first-hand anecdata: I have joined ‘legit’ dating sites and I have placed ads for hook-ups on Craigslist. On the legit sites I post pictures of my face and at least one full length (clothed) pic so that men can see exactly what I look like and decide for themselves if they find me attractive or not. I don’t mention it explicitly, it’s not an issue for me.
When hooking-up on craigslist I call myself a bbw. I do it because everyone knows what it means (to a degree – I usually add that I’m fat, 5’7″ and 300 lbs so that guys know that I’m not just big-bottomed and boobed). Anyway, in both cases it’s about me getting what I want. If I’m looking for a man to come over right now for sex and I’m not looking for a relationship, then I tell him what he’s getting into (tehehe). I do not post photos on craigslist, ever.
If I’m looking for a relationship, I don’t want someone who it fetishezing fat. I don’t place dating ads on BBW websites, but on mainstream ones because I’m looking for a more complete relationship.
So, yeah. I get what the author is saying about BBW – it does feel fetishy and porny. And sometimes that’s exactly the shorthand that we need.
I’m actually old enough to remember when the term wasn’t used primarily in a porny way. Heck, I remember working in a bookstore and shelving the new issue of BBW every month.
It’s not a term I use for myself, but it doesn’t particularly bother me, either. Maybe it has to do with being old enough to remember when there wasn’t a readily found branch of the FA movement outside of seeing that magazine on the newsstands.
I find the rhetoric being aimed at the term ridiculously overblown. When the term was coined, it was revolutionary to say that being fat didn’t automatically mean you needed to hide in paper sacks. BBW was a term of pride. The fact that it has been largely hijacked by the porn industry as a way of identifying a particular sexual preference doesn’t mean it was always intended to be demeaning.
Also, as others have noted, its meaning has become nearly nonexistent as it has become more and more elastic. That’s probably a big part of why the term no longer resonates with me. That doesn’t mean it didn’t have value once upon a time.
Many groups that have faced prejudice and oppression have also found that changing times lead to changing views of the names they have taken for themselves in hopes of being viewed in a more positive light by the general public. BBW served its purpose once upon a time. That time is past. I think the important thing to keep in mind is that language is a fluid thing. What is good to say one day may be an insult the next.
With more and more of us reclaiming the word ‘fat’ there is little room left in the movement for coy acronyms. Thirty years ago, that coy acronym was a necessary early step. Thirty years from now, who knows what will happen to both FA and society? I have no idea. I do know one thing, though: someone will be getting their panties in a wad over someone using terms that are completely appropriate now because the lexicon of the movement will most likely have morphed yet again.
With computers comes all sorts of abbreviations. I use BBW sometimes because it is easily recognized! And typed! Analysis has its place, but so does convenience.
While I personally don’t use the term (like others, I find it odd and creepy), if it makes another woman feel better and more confident referring to herself as a BBW, more power to her. I don’t think a term can objectify people. People objectify people, and blaming an acronym or associating it with ‘depravity and a lack of self-respect’ is kind of silly.
I remember the magazine – its main focus was fashion, which I think was also a reason for the term “BBW” instead of, oh, “Fat Woman”, but it also had some of the first articles I ever read about the obesity paradox, dangers of yo-yo dieting, and so on. Back in the early 90s I short-circuited the usual weight talk at family gatherings by showing up with a dozen issues of BBW. My relatives were all so busy wowing at the clothing they didn’t get into the “OMG I’m so fat” talk :)
Twistie – can I say you rock? Because you do. You wrote what I wish I had :)
I don’t like BBW either. I actually find “Fattie” to be a bit endearing since I have been reading FA blogs. Otherwise, I use Plus Size, but really only when refering to clothing.
Just posted this over at Curvature.
‘Fat’ is another word that, I think, is going through some changes. ‘Chubby’, ‘zaftig’ ‘fluffy’, ‘big’, ‘big-boned’, ‘overweight’, all of these terns have been used by and for people who tend towards adipose as descriptors and there are problems with each. ‘Chubby’ might describe some one 20 or 25 pound heavier than the ‘norm’ but someone 50 to 100? Not so much. The same goes for ‘zaftig’ and in some cases ‘fluffy’. There are those who would be absolutely mortified at being described as ‘big’ or ‘big-boned’. And, as for ‘overweight’? Well, by now I’m sure we know the problem with that (Over WHO’S weight? My weight is my weight. I’m not over or under any standard that means anything to ME). Which, I think, is why ‘fat’ is making a resurgence. The fat community is reclaiming it’s most accurate descriptor. And that’s what all these terms are really; descriptors. Even BBW. And, as the NRA is so fond of saying, they are just tools who’s use is entirely dependent upon the user.
Useful things. Necessary things in this, text driven, world of the interwebs.
I happen to be a BHM n2 BBW’s (BHM = Big Handsome Man). If you can find a more efficient way to express this via text, please let me know.
As for the fetish issue, I usually have one question in response to that every time it comes up; Why does it ALWAYS have to be a fetish?
Yip! Twisty beat me too it! Must. Type. Faster. ; )
I do think Curvature can be a bit over the top, BUT…I’m actually with this one, just based on Flickr: if it says “BBW” you can bet it’s fetish and has porn linked all over it.
And I do remember when BBW was attempted to be a way of introducing the positive. It really didn’t work.
Does the writer really believe that thinner women are loved just for their confidence, taste and intelligence and not for their bodies?? What a stupid argument.
BBW was intended to be analogous to another popular saying of the time – “Black is Beautiful.” It was supposed to be a statement of pride.
If the “models inside said magazine hid behind tunics and drapey jackets”, that wasn’t the magazine’s fault. At that time, there really wasn’t much of a choice. If the younger folk around here could see what was available in stores for sizes beyond 14 or so, they would weep.
I have fond memories of BBW. They tried to include all manner of fat people as models. There were issues devoted to petites, women over 40, and one with a stunningly gorgeous super-size model.
I particularly liked to look at the hairstyles. Where else could you find pictures of hairstyles on large faces?
Twistie, Carol Gwenn, thanks for telling it like it was. If the connotation of BBW has been degraded since then, that is just the way our language evolves. Consider that “whore” was once used as a term of endearment, and as a euphemism for something else.
When I was Internet dating, I described myself as having “an hourglass figure with lots of extra sand”.
I’m not sure I could answer this in one little comment. But potentially long comment short. I’m fine with the term BBW. I can’t really get behind Curvature’s stance as I also love pornography and since I have somewhat of a preference for bigger women as well, I guess you could call me a chubby chaser.
I’m not sure I see why it has to be some wierd sick fetish just because I like bigger women. That doesn’t mean I’d only go for bigger women, but I just like em that way.
BBW Magazine was a revelation to me back in the early 80s. Even though I was a size 10/12 and didn’t ever expect to be larger, I admired the women in those mags tremendously. I realize now that the message that moved me so deeply was that of accepting, even loving, your body as it was. That idea was absolutely revolutionary back then. Hell, it still is today.
Now I’m 100 pounds heavier than I was back then – yes, the “worst” happened to me. And though it’s been a hard road to here, I love my body more than I ever did when I was thin (and thought I was fat). BBW started me down the long road to self-acceptance and I’m grateful.
Twisty=awesome
That’s basically what I was thinking, but because I wasn’t alive yet at the time I didn’t know exactly how. Or if I had the cred to do so. :)
I think everyone here is talking in today’s terms. Think in 30-years-ago terms and BBW makes a whole lot more sense.
Besides, something like that might be a nice stepping stone for someone who is sick of being all self-loathing but isn’t secure enough to toss “fat” around casually yet.
As the writer of Curvature I have this to say:
Criticisms are valid. I was 18 when I wrote that blog (for a class, I might add) and have grown up a lot since then in my views of feminism, fat, and everything in between. I will note that I still eschew the term BBW, but it’s because it’s a label that attempts to mask the word “fat.” I understand why it was created, but I’d rather not be reduced to an abbreviation in any form, even if it’s meant to be complimentary.
Oh, how I remember picking up my first copy of BBW magazine way back when and thinking, “WOW, finally a magazine for me.”
BBW is a term I use from time to time, especially on dating sites, but I’m embracing “fat” as a descriptive more and more.
Word, Twistie and others who are pointing out the issues of time and place. In the present, I see BBW as a classifieds term – take it or SBM, DWF, etc. out of that context, and it still carries a connotation of being on the prowl, and not necc. looking for anything long-term.
Anyway, I like ‘fat’ as the word to describe my fatness. It’s accurate, and it’s only derogatory if you see fatness as being a bad thing. We’ve all got a bit of internalized fat hatred (at least I do), but that doesn’t make the word any less useful or accurate.
A lot of the debate around BBW I think comes from the fact that it’s still really hard for many of us to see ourselves as sexy – I myself often find myself thinking of it as sexy* – sexy for who I am, but not sexy in an absolute sense. Much of that comes from the fact that ‘absolute’ gets conflated with ‘on the cover of Maxim.’ Re-defining sexy to mean ‘what I find sexy’ as opposed to ‘what Maxim would find sexy’ is a way longer process than I would wish, but the more progress I make, the less problem I have with all terms – fat, BBW, etc.