"Most Of Our Upscale Clientele Is Smaller" Says Macy's
Nonk was telling me about this Consumerist article last night, and I almost fell over. A woman named Amanda went to Macy’s and tried to buy a formal dress in a plus size. And here’s what she was allegedly told:
Pam: I’m sorry, ma’am. Macy’s does not cater to your size.
Me: I beg your pardon?
Pam: It’s a demographic thing, ma’am. We do not carry plus sizes of formal wear or business suits. We find, demographically speaking, that most of our upscale clientele is smaller, so we have a really large petites department and just the basics for our plus sized customers. It’s nothing against you, ma’am. It’s just demographics.
Me: Let me make sure I understand, please. Your “upscale” customers who buy party dresses and business suits are all petite? And your plus sized customers are not “upscale”?
Pam: Yes ma’am. The demographics tell us that plus sized women just don’t need social wear.
Me: So what you are saying then is that larger women don’t have good jobs and don’t go to parties.
Pam: That’s correct, ma’am.
Then Pam told Amanda that she should try a store that caters to women of color, who “tend to be larger.” Now, I’m sure the conversation did not go down exactly like this, but even if this is half-true, it has me concerned.
I get all my formalwear at Nordstrom, which has an outstanding selection of gorgeous dresses (like my party dress, hello) Has anyone been to Macy’s lately? Have you noticed a dearth of business and formalwear? What’s the real story here?
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Fashion, Fatism, Race & Ethnicity, Work
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If nothing else, this sounds like a nightmare in terms of customer service.
I live in the Dallas area, and find that there appears to be a limited range of plus sizes in formal wear.
I’m in between a 12 and a 14, and I have a terrible time finding businesswear, but so does my tiny-ass girlfriend.
We’ve noticed that a lot of clothes are immodest — either too skin-bearing or tight — to be appropriate for the offcie.
Well, unless Macy’s has redone what they have in THE Macy’s (the one at Herald Sq. in NYC) there was plus-size formal wear there, as well as suits (Anne Klein separates, reasonably priced as far as good quality suits go), AND a semi-decent selection of plus-size designer clothes. I imagine it varies by store, as I found last year.
Last winter I had a formal wedding to go to and went looking at a Macy’s in a not-at-all upscale mall and found that they had nothing, but the saleswoman said that they DID sell formal wear for plus sizes at the store at a newer upscale mall a couple miles away. (I ended up buying a dress at Nordstrom at that mall, but Macy’s did have a decent selection.)
My Nordstroms experience was a tad different. I went to find a formal for a performance I was going to do a number of years ago, and asked the saleswoman where the larger sizes were. She informed me that Nordstroms did not carry formals in my size (at that time a generous 22). I smiled and said, “I guess fat girls don’t go to prom.” and she answered, I shit you not, “Not if they shop at Nordstroms”. I wrote a blistering letter to Nordstroms and was informed that this salesperson was fired. So I guess I should have been pleased. I wasn’t though. Just disappointed. I have never shopped at Nordstroms since.
I hope someone pointed out the logical fallacy there. *headdesk*
(Maybe your customer “demographics” would change if you carried clothes that fit larger women, idiots! Although I sincerely doubt the numbers would hold up on their assertion. More likely they don’t carry plus sized clothes because they don’t want fat chicks in their stores making them look less classy. Which also could explain that comment about “women of color” cause you don’t want them loitering around Macys and ruining their image either. Bastards.)
Well, if you don’t sell plus-sized and large men’s formal wear, then NO SHIT YOUR CUSTOMERS AREN’T GOING TO BUY IT THERE.
I would think that most of their upscale clientele would also have correct subject-verb agreement.
I’m pretty sure the Macy’s in SF doesn’t carry formalwear, although I think they do carry suits? It’s been a while. Actually, I think the last time I was there I was with you.
I wasn’t really looking for an excuse not to spend money at Macy’s anymore, but now it looks like I have one.
Ah, I was hoping you’d see this.
Message to Pam the clerk: Don’t believe everything you read. Or everything your managers tell you. Not even about ur demograffix.
We’ve noticed that a lot of clothes are immodest — either too skin-bearing or tight — to be appropriate for the offcie.
Must … not … make … crack … about … Texas …
mmmmffff ….
I lived there, for you proud Texans that are about to get up in arms about my snarky.
And yes, I’ve left.
We were not a match.
I’m just not buying it. I’ve been treated rude as shit by sales floor staff in department stores for years, but I just can not buy “That’s correct, ma’am. Of course, for those few exceptions like yourself there is one other option.” That rings falser than fanfic.
I don’t doubt the author had a run-in with staff, and I even believe the staffer told her to shop at the other store, but the dialogue as written stinks of hyperbole — and the bit about how the next customer in line [in line across the store from the plus department, you’ll note] had the same question is the cherry on the hot B.S. sundae.
Don’t we have enough to be outraged about without making things up?
Ooooh, that is shitty, shitty customer service. (“Upscale clientele is smaller”). As an employee at Macy’s I highly recommend that the person who got this treatment NEEDS to go to macys.com/tellus and let them know. They HATE being misrepresented like that.
Basically, it’s not true for the company as a whole. The one where I work DOES have a great plus selection, as I know from shopping there. It could be better, though.
I guess it depends where you live. Most of the Macy’s in my area don’t have the best plus-size section. I’ve never checked out their formalwear, simply because I highly doubt they carry fancy dresses and gowns in my size (26/28).
Maybe Wal-Mart should start carrying a line of formalwear, seeing as how that’s supposedly where all the fat women shop (this is a crack on people who stereotype all Wal-Mart shoppers as overweight sloppy bums).
I guess it depends where you live. Most of the Macy’s in my area don’t have the best plus-size section. I’ve never checked out their formalwear, simply because I highly doubt they carry fancy dresses and gowns in my size (26/28).
Maybe Wal-Mart should start carrying a line of formalwear, seeing as how that’s supposedly where all the fat women shop (this is a crack on people who stereotype all Wal-Mart shoppers as overweight sloppy bums).
Whoops! Looks like my computer timed out and decided to duplicate my response!
We here in Chicago hate Macy’s anyway. They took over Marshall Fields, which was iconic Windy City and renamed it Macy’s. I work a block down and haven’t been in the store since it changed hands! Really though, this is a blessing in disguise. There are talented designers and small companies out there that specialize in full figures. It takes a bit of effort to find them sometimes, but it is worth it not to support these ignorant corporations who are ripping us off with crap made in overseas factories where workers make less than a dollar an hour! Support independent business people who know just what to do with our beautiful curves!
This is so weird because I’ve just recently discovered Macy’s and it has become the place to go for plus sized clothing in my house. I can get 100% cotton, designers (never thought I would wear Polo again), and a lot of variety. I honestly didn’t think I would ever enjoy shopping again unless I was thin and then I saw what Macy’s had to offer.
I’ll explore this no plus size formals the next time that I go over there.
I’m sure different Macy’s stores alter their selections to better meet “demographic” demands, but my Macy’s store seems to have a nice plus-size selection — I shop in the misses section, so I could be mistaken. And it’s on the first floor in plain sight! It’s the misses and juniors section that’s hidden away on the second floor, at least at the downtown Cincinnati location.
I’ve heard lots of good things about the selections at Nordstroms. We’re finally getting one next year and I can’t wait to check it out.
My experience has been pretty good with Macy’s plus size section, although I think I used it mostly for work clothes. Not too sure I’ve ever bought formal wear though. I live in an affluent area with a high concentration of women working professional jobs, so I would assume that helps.
That whole Macy’s thing is just…wow! Its crazy enough to only carry things in certain sizes for their ‘upscale’ customers, but to actually say such rude things to someone who is in the store wanting to spend money is ridiculous. Do they ever think that perhaps their upscale customers who take larger sizes shop elsewhere cause they hate the attitude of the people who work at Macys?!
My mum is a petite 5ft 1in and a few years ago had a similar experience in a shop, but for different reasons. She was actually told “We don’t stock clothes here for people of YOUR size”, a special little slice of height discrimination just for her.
Interestingly, a coworker and I were talking about something similar this afternoon. We work in an office building that has a Macy’s on the ground floor, and often check out their women’s plus department. While we have never been treated badly by any of the employees, we’ve noticed that many of the really pretty or fancy or cute party and cocktail dresses do not go higher than a 12 or maybe even a 14. Many of the plus-sized evening wear looks very matronly, or looks more business wear than formal wear. Many outfits are two-piece pant suits, and we wanted flirty dresses!
I’m not sure I buy this either… for a totally different reason. I wear petite sizes (by which I mean short, I’ve been a 14P), and I’ve yet to find an “upscale” Macy’s with a “really large” petite section. Most I’ve found have a petite section roughly similar in size as or smaller than their plus section. And I’ve yet to see a Macys that has *any* formalwear at all in a petite or plus size. :-P
Byrneout, that line struck me too. Along with:
“Me: So what you are saying then is that larger women don’t have good jobs and don’t go to parties.
Pam: That’s correct, ma’am. ”
Nobody would actually say that. Which is why I’m interested in other people’s experiences at Macy’s, because I doubt this whole story a little bit.
Got to go with FatNSassy; I ‘ve never bothered to hate on Macy’s for how they treat plussers, because I’m too busy hating on them for how they treated Chicagoans. My husband is a native, and I’ve worked on Field (as in Marshall Field) Drive in Lake Forest for the last 13 years. It’s pretty anti-Macy’s around here.
I’m pretty sure I bought my prom dress at Macys. Back then I was about a size 20, and this was almost a decade ago, but back then Macy’s was the only store I could afford that had any formal wear at all. I bought a dress for my college graduation about 2 1/2 years ago from the Herald Sq Macys and it was the first dress I’ve ever owned that fully flattered me and I will own it until the day I die. I don’t shop for dresses often enough to say more than that.
I will say, however, that they do NOT have all the basics in plus. Their outerwear can be pathetic, and their lingerie and hosiery department is pretty insulting. Maybe their demographics show larger women don’t wear anything under…
I love Macy’s in general..mainly because its still the same as it was when it was Kaufmann’s prior to the takeover. Anyhoo, I live in the Cleveland area and, yes, Ohio isn’t exactly the fashion capital of the world…or any capital of anything, but we fatties do actually have parties and performances to go to at times that require us to get out of our sweat pants and oversized Tweety Bird t-shirts. I’ve tried Macy’s a couple times this year to find a dress or two for a couple weddings (one being a black tie affair). I was REALLY disappointed in the selection of dresses there. I think there was a total of 2…and both heinous. I’m not really sure who the buyer is for Macy’s plus sizes but they do need to realize that fat women do not look stunning in mint green polyester pants and a shirt with a F-ING SAILBOAT APPLIQUE on it. Seriously, WHAT THE F, MACY’S? You make me weep. Although, I do have to say that I have found some nice stuff there…casual stuff….nothing dressy. So, thats my rant….Oh, and Macy’s? If you need a consultant for the plus size section, feel free to email me.
Wow, this makes me really mad. I’m a total clothes horse, despite being as wide as I am tall. When I’m feeling flush I spend a LOT of money on clothes. I get wonderful treatment at Nordstrom and even better at Harper Greer in San Francisco. Macy’s? They can go f*** themselves, I won’t be spending a thin dime there if they don’t want my money.
Nothing pisses me off like being unable to buy something/do something/eat something/enjoy something because of my size/height/weird hair or whatever.
BTW, I heart the plus size petite section at Talbot’s. Try finding a wool blazer when you’re not quite 5 feet tall and 240 pounds. Love that place.
One other point – the story says she was in the formal wear department. I find that it is unpredictable as to what things are in the “women’s” department and what are in other departments. At the Macy’s I go to most often, dressy dresses are all in women’s, but suits are divided between women’s and suits. Which is a pain, but they are across the aisle from each other. It is also the only local department store that somewhat regularly has fashion shows for plus size women.
I did, however, have an encounter at Macy’s in San Francisco some years ago that led me to write them a letter. In short, the store had great clothes – except for outerwear. I asked to see a raincoat with a zipout lining in a 20 or 22 and the saleswoman said “we have a few that go up to 16.” The letter pointed out that I couldn’t show off the lovely stuff from their women’s department if I couldn’t go outside because I couldn’t buy a coat. Never did get an answer. (And did get a coat – at Burlington Coat Factory)
I had a bad experience at THE Macy’s (34th Herald Sq NYC) that the first commenter had a good experience with. In the bridals section. I was looked up and down and told that they had nothing but sample sizes at any stores (which is apparently not true). When I asked if I could just LOOK at the dress (as I had only seen it online), she told me the dress probably wasn’t even in stock (I had checked. It was. And it’s among the most popular dresses available). I pressed this and she agreed to just let me look in the manufacturer’s area. It was the first dress on the rack! What jerks! I am fine with them not having certain things in certain locations, but 1. tell me where I can get it and 2. treat me like an actual customer.
Lose weight and get clothes. Why in the world do you feel justified in complaining about this?
Ooh, I don’t know, John Ding. Maybe because I think I’m an attractive, self-respecting human being with a professional and social life who deserves the same things as any other person regardless of size answering to that description. You know… respect, politeness, clothes that reflect my personality and enhance my appearance in a variety of different social and work situations, people not making egregious assumptions about my ability or desire to lose weight, that sort of thing.
I’m not sure I buy it. I have no idea what Macy’s carries in terms of plus sized formal wear, but their suit selection in general is absolute crap these days. The last time I tried to buy a suit at Macy’s the quality was awful, and I could not find much in my size … and I am a size 8. I found plenty of 12 and 14s but mostly it was a nightmare of polyester and weird colors.
I was not shopping in the petite section, which does seem to take up an inordinate amount of floor space, but “petite” in those terms just means short, not skinny, right? Snooty women are short? Whatever. Snooty woman don’t shop at Macy’s.
I’ve only had positive experiences at Macys, but I live in the deeeeeep South where the bulk of the “upscale” clientelle loves their food full of butter and deep fried and they worship at the altar of Paula Deen. Which, of course, equals fat.
Seriously, I’m a size 22 and have had few problems finding good, cute, flattering stuff. Hell, the first pair of shorts that I’ve owned since I was 8 came from Macys. They fit great, and don’t get that weird waist-butt gap that happens when you have large butt and hips and a smaller waist.
I did look for a dress to wear to a wedding one time, and found that the casual-dressy selection was not above size 14, but the formal/prom dresses were nice, pretty, and came in up to size 24.
I don’t know where that Macy’s is, but my store at Tysons Corner has a great plus-size section. I just bought a puffy coat there the other week. They have a nice selection of formalwear AND they have designers like Michael Kors and Calvin Kline, etc. They have everything from conservative to trendy. Granted it’s all in one department on the third floor, but it’s pretty good. I wish people would stop exagerating to seem like victims. I wear an 18, BTW.
I originally read this story on LJ’s Fatshionista, and from what I heard, the Macy’s in question is in Austin, TX. (Which means it probably used to be a Foley’s)
In a strange twist, the flagship Macy’s in Houston doesn’t have a plus-size formal section either, despite taking up 5 floors. I’m not even sure they sell plus-size outerwear either.
Meanwhile, the Macy’s that used to be in the “bad neighborhood” carried fur coats…until they closed this year.
I live in the UK and I visited the Macy’s in Tyson’s Corner this summer and disliked the fact the department was tucked away in splendid isolation on a different floor from the straight sizes. I don’t view myself as a victim; consequently I don’t like being treated as if I have the Black Plague. Seriously what’s with the segregation? I’m going to wreck the thin people’s shopping experience if they have to rub shoulders with a fat woman? Macy’s think I prefer skulking in the shadows to being treated as a fashion equal? Either way it’s crap. Plus sizes should not be relegated to the tatty end of the shop or only be available online.
I did a lot of traveling (and shopping) on my trip and noticed a marked difference in the plus-sizes carried by the various branches of Macy’s I checked out. They did seem to cater to very different demographics though I didn’t spot much in the way of businesswear apart from in the Westfield Mall in San Francisco and the huge Macy’s in New York. I was also very put out to dioscover that the Saks in San Francisco has dropped their Salon Z department altogether.
If true, the way that the customer was treated is reprehensible.
But if Macy’s wants to not stock plus sized formal dresses or suits, I am not going to get up in arms about it. This is probably going to get me in trouble with other commenters (and it’s totally anecdotal), but at the law firm where I work only 2 of the 20 or so female lawyers are fat, where probably half of the female support staff are. There are a lot of reasons why this might be true, but it does seem to track Macy’s decision not to carry suits in larger sizes. I am not a self-hating fatty, but I am a capitalist and I think Macy’s should carry whatever sizes they think they can sell.
I was annoyed when Macy’s bought out the May Company stores. I could ALWAYS count on Kaufmann’s to have pretty, trendy and fitted gowns and suits for ladies of any size.
When Macy’s took over, the women’s department went from a quarter of the store to about the size of the restroom. And, sorry, I just don’t do tents and large floral patterns (or both).
I quit going to Macy’s because I could never find anything there (and I never did manage to find an acceptable substitute for Kaufmann’s), but I had no idea the big M was so blatant in its disregard of women above a certain size. So we’re fat AND poor? We’re pudgy with no social life? Hrm. My boycott continues in earnest.
I think it really does depend on the specific store. For example, the Macy’s near me, which was orginally Gimbels and then became Sterns, doesn’t carry children’s shoes. As any parent will tell you, kids grow out of shoes very quickly–so that’s a pretty steady market. What each store will carry seems to be ruled by an unseen logic.
But I’m not going to get up in arms about Macy’s. I never enjoyed shopping there. And, if they insist on carrying what I don’t want or need, I will continue not to give them my money. Fairly simple.
If you have to have a rehearsed answer, then you obviously get the question a lot. If that’s the case you should stock the items in question. If you refuse, you’re either a horrible businessperson or a bigoted asshat. Or possibly both.
I should also note that even in what we would call “THE” Macy’s (Herald Square) the plus size department is proportionally pretty small. It’s half a floor, compared to at least 3 full floors for misses sizes. And it does have designer, dressy and suits but still not that much.
And the Fulton Mall Macy’s in Brooklyn (a heavily black area) doesn’t have a great plus size section. Proportionally even smaller with crappy merchandise. So her comment about a “black Macy’s” having better plus stuff is complete b.s.
I’ve had similar crappy service from Nordies:
http://archangeldecker.blogspot.com/2008/12/letter-to-bloomingdales.html
I wound up having a nice long chat with the executive offices. I just want crap like this STOPPED.
When I lived/worked in NYC, the Herald Square Macy’s was my go-to for clothes. Not only did they actually have clothes that I liked and didn’t look like they were for 50 year old women, but they often had huge amounts of clearance. Yes, compared to the “misses” section, which must be several floors as the other commentor mentioned, it wasn’t much, but it was the biggest plus department I’d ever seen. I still buy most of my clothes there, as the stuff there seems to fit me better than other stores such as Lane Bryant, JC Penneys or anywhere else you buy “career wear”. After reading all these comments though, perhaps I’ll try Nordstroms and Talbots.
It sounds impossible to believe that retailers would repel potential customers on purpose, but I read somewhere else about stores that appeal to teens and young adults that use several tactics to ward off the “wrong demographics”–loud music, lack of window displays, etc.–so I guess anything’s possible.
I bought a formal dress at macy’s when I went to my senior prom (a decade ago) and at the time I wore a 24. I wear a 26 now and I go to my Macy’s and there are a few formal gowns, but not nearly the number they had when I recall purchasing one for prom. Most of what they do have is pretty much what my grandma would wear to a wedding anyway. big mumu, sheer jacket with beads. No fucking thank you.
I live in Southern California. I have seen some differences in plus selections at Macy’s. The Fox Hills location, which has more black and Latino clientele, has a wide selection of plus, particularly INC Woman.
To be fair, I have also shopped INC Woman at Macy’s South Coast Plaza, a flagship store. That store had things that many others didn’t carry.
In terms of formal dresses, I’ve gotten my formals at places other than Macy’s, such as bridal stores and a specialty store in Los Angeles’ garment district that carried nice formals up to size 24. My green formal is an altered 22 that will need more cutdowns soon.
To the customer service issue, as said, nobody deserves rudeness. The only thing that should matter is willingness to spend.
Just clear proof that Macy’s doesn’t even understand their own process.
Martha Stewart Gadgets + cute dinnerware x more domestic divas cooking up a storm = bigger clothes!!
I read this article this morning, and I must say I felt sick about it for a couple of reasons.
1. Service- regardless if you plan to spend $20 or $2000 nobody should be made to feel worhtless. Dammit! I work in retail and have been for over 10 years. Maybe this is why I am so bothered…. sad…
2. If you do not know the market, get out of it. Many retailers try to be all things to all people, and as most marketing majors know, you can not be all things! Many people have this amazing notion that if you are bigger than a size 12, you do not have any fashion sense… check out my blog to prove THEM wrong
3. If you do not know what you are talking about, get someone to help you- no need to sound important. Like the salesclerk who ended up sounding ignorant. Who as a retailer would even reveal such information- regardless of its findings?
4. If you do not have the passion of selling and fulfilling those needs and desires of a shopper…. you are in the wrong field.
5. And to my Curvy.Confident.Chic readers, while we amass to be the only “demographic” that has shown amazing growth and proves to be the most loyal… let them “think” they know what is up… BUt they will be the ones kicking themselves
6. Lastly, and I will step off my soapbox, the designers are there and do cater to our curves, if the retailer doers not “BUY” in those sizes and the perfect product mix and assortment… we are left with ish like what is at Macys and others. I am a fashionista who demands the high fashion, amazing quality, and impeccable fit just like my straight girls! I am on my quest to hunt THISE designers down!
Marie Denee
The Curvy Fashionista
After I saw this blog post (through gawker.com) yesterday. I copied the link and went to Macy’s customer service email on their corporate website and sent it to them. I figure this SHOULD become a fameball PR nightmare and that as many people as possible should complain directly to them.
I don’t really shop at Macy’s, but Bloomingdale’s in NYC makes it so obvious that they don’t want “fuller figured” women shopping there, you don’t even both asking if they have your size. If you are above a size 12, you are sent to the BASEMENT (the same level as the subway, there is even a handy exit directly onto the subway platform and out of sheer frustration and tears many times I have run out of it). And like the woman in the original post noted, 95% of the clothes are casual and the 5% that are formal are all high-end designers that I can’t afford. Horrible. And after that kind of treatment for years, now that I have lost weight, you couldn’t PAY ME to shop in the actual store, as opposed to the BASEMENT!
i am sure if Pam’s managers knew what she supposedly said to this customer they would be appalled, and in the least she would be repremanded-Pam is the problem not Macys. if you are going to be mad at Macy’s for not carrying plus size formal or upscale wear than you better be mad at the majority of retailers out there! Even Lane Bryant, the “go to” retailer for women of “real size” doesn’t carry everyday dresses in the majority of its stores.