19 Responses to Monday Open Thread

1. C, on May 19th, 2008 at 3:29 pm Said:

   That mere fact that it says “pretty face” was enough to illicit an ugh from me.
2. Alyssa, on May 19th, 2008 at 3:46 pm Said:

   WHAT?!?!?! What? What?! WTF?!?!?!
3. Katilane, on May 19th, 2008 at 3:55 pm Said:

   Damn Torrid, we finally get you in Alaska, I spend on you what I paid for my car, and you pull this.
4. O.C., on May 19th, 2008 at 4:24 pm Said:

   The implication that the rest of us just simply don’t have ENDURANCE enough to “sweat off the weight” is really insulting. And dumb.
5. mo pie, on May 19th, 2008 at 5:16 pm Said:

   Here is the letter Jen wrote to Torrid:

   Torrid,

   I cannot for the life of me imagine why you are sponsoring the new MTV ‘show’ “Model Maker.” As a very forward-thinking business that has encouraged women and girls of size to be happy with their bodies and be able to feel beautiful and sexy (even in this incredibly fat-hatred society), that you would then FUND new American tripe that says, “Sure you’ll be pretty, once you’re 30-100lbs thinner,” is DISGUSTING.

   Are you aware that the psychological pressures put on young women through media, society and their peers, all telling them YOUR BODY IS NOT OKAY are ridiculously more harmful to anyone’s health than cellulite or a fat belly?

   This hatred, fueled by people who have claimed that it would be okay to even put fat people in modern day concentration camps (http://www.bigfatblog.com/node/22), is so incredibly destructive to women that it turns them from troubled children with body image trauma to WOMEN with body image trauma, and guess who they then pass their baggage onto? That’s right–their daughters, who don’t yet know how horrendously prejudiced and patriarchal this society is.

   Fat people are told they are not allowed to exist EVERY DAY, in very blatant ways. In every ad that neglects to show a woman with a little meat on her bones, in every diet program that exists, in the glares that people give you for daring to share this earth with them, and most CERTAINLY in this fucking excuse for a television show, “Model Maker.”

   YOU ARE *TORRID.* Does that mean nothing to you? You are one of the only VISIBLE companies that has been proud to serve the fat-female community, especially with non-matronly clothing.

   And this is certainly not about health. Size is not an indicator of health, much as pharmaceutical companies would have you believe otherwise. Health does not equal thin, and fat does not equal unhealthy. (http://kateharding.net/but-dont-you-realize-fat-is-unhealthy/)

   I am appalled at this promotional move of your company, and I have already begun to inform the figureheads of the Fat Acceptance movement about this backstabbing role you’ve taken as a company. I implore you, if you have any decency, to please involve yourselves in something much more body positive–like Lifetime’s “How To Look Good Naked.”

   -Jen Ponton
6. Rhonwyyn, on May 19th, 2008 at 5:50 pm Said:

   I think it’s a cop-out. When designers demand to have streamlined “thin” models, they don’t have to expend the effort to design attractive clothing for women (and men) who have lots of “extra” curves. It’s not us fat chicks who are lazy – we work hard to find attractive clothing! – it’s the designers who are lazy because they won’t design attractive clothing for us in all of our varied shapes, sizes, and style preferences.

   I also wanted to post this link (more about the Whitney/plus-size model thing) because it raises some interesting questions. (And the perspectives expressed in the comments are very interesting; most are positive.)
   http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/BeautySecrets/story?id=4873965&page=1
7. libbyblue, on May 19th, 2008 at 6:27 pm Said:

   even how to look good naked has certain problems.

   http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-557940/How-feel-BAD-naked-A-model-reveals-fashion-guru-Gok-Wan-vile-scenes.html
8. Tim, on May 19th, 2008 at 8:04 pm Said:

   (A copy of the letter I just sent Torrid)

   Dear Torrid,

   Who knew? Alienating your main customer base by telling them that they are not actually self confident or hot as a sales technique. This is akin to passing off trash bags as designer couture in the Sex and The City movie.

   Let me educate you on a few things, since you folks claim to be an authority on what is hot. Were you aware Torrid also means passionate?
   Please consider my response along the lines of that term.

   I’m lucky enough to be with the most beautiful, awe inspiring woman on earth. The world literally trembles in the footsteps of this amazing person and she’s got the education plus self confidence to run your entire company. Guess what? She’s plus size. She’s proudly plus size. I’ve never actually dated anyone who wasn’t. The plus size women I know are actually many of the most confident and successful women I’ve encountered.

   Shame on you! There are so many horrible reasons in today’s society for a woman’s self confidence to suffer. Weight? Weight is hardly near the top. Try spousal abuse, sexism, discrimination of many other kinds and the difficult job of juggling more responsibilities than us men. This isn’t the 50s. Weight is no longer the standard by which confident and beautiful women are measured.

   As a businessman, I measure health and self confidence by someone’s ability to conduct business. This is most often evaluated by their decision making skills. If you don’t mind a little creative criticism, I think someone in your chain of command might need the lifestyle makeover..not the legions of gorgeous women gaining stature in today’s society.

   I humbly invite you to grow up and join modern society.
9. Cyn, on May 19th, 2008 at 11:25 pm Said:

   Tim: you and my partner are a few examples of intelligent men who dare to express their feelings and be with the woman they love without indirect (or very direct) pressure from media and society standards. Your hearts are made of gold, guys.

   The only time I’ve been to Torrid (about five years ago in Houston) I didn’t exactly feel in size-acceptance Heaven. The clothes were all stereotypically “needie-fattie” to me. You know, the shirts with “purrfect”, “single and available”, “kiss me”, “cutie”, all with sweet images of CareBears and the Seven Dwarves and Hello Kitty. To me, it clearly said fat girls “could” aspire to be cute in their outfit. Cute like fat cute things, like cats and clouds and sugar candy. Cute and submissive and waiting for you. But never pretty. Never attractive. Never horny nor intelligent nor clever nor aggressively competitive. Never (dare I say!) SEXUAL. They didn’t have any of the goth lushy dresses with corsets integrated they had at Hot Topic. Nor band blouses. They didn’t have all those gorgeous things from the website. They only had those unisex t-shirts in pastel colours. To me, they were almost trying to turn their customers into little chubby babies, or into desperate virgins looking for love in gay guys and boy bands. Last April, I got an e-mail celebrating Torrid’s birthday (on my birthday), and a picture of the Glamazons followed by a quote that said something like “We don’t imagine life without you, Torrid!”. What? You are the Glamazons, not the Powerpuff Girls!

   Yes, the cartoons are cute and the t-shirts were cute. But it was ALL they had. One-dimensional kawaii that craved your cuddles.

   Even if I’m in the mailing list (and soon won’t be), I didn’t get that “invitation”. Maybe because I live abroad. Or maybe because I don’t have “a pretty face”. Nor the willing to shed a gram for anyone.
10. Kelly B, on May 20th, 2008 at 12:30 am Said:

    Well, we Canadians don’t have Torrid stores up here, but we can order from them…which I won’t be doing after reading this. They should be ashamed of themselves. Hopefully they really think about what has been articulately expressed here and give their collective heads a shake. Blech.
11. Sherie S, on May 20th, 2008 at 8:27 am Said:

    Does anyone know who the parent company of Torrid is? Nothing corporate America does surprises me. Weight obsession is one way billions get transferred from the middle class to the power elite. They don’t want it to stop, especially in a bad economy. I would not be surprized to find out that if you go high enough, some parent company up the chain has a financial interest in weight loss. I don’t know this to be a fact in Torrid’s case, but Nestle owns Jenny Craig, Unilever owns Ben and Jerry’s, Heinz owns (or used to) own Weight Watchers and so on! Not to mention interlocking board of directories. That is when members on one board of directors sits on the board of directors of a non competing company. For instance, a board member of Jenny Craig is also a board member of ABC. (Which is why they can’t go two minutes without a diet plug!) It is all so incestuous it is not even funny!!!
12. Joshuah, on May 20th, 2008 at 9:14 am Said:

    You know…

    Torrid has been a big disappointment in my eyes for quite some time. I too am fortunate enough to be with one of the most gorgeous and intelligent women (also a businesswoman) on this planet. She was also a member of the Torrid team when they were first getting started. She had such passion and confidence for that company, that she even considered making it a career for a time.

    That was until the changes started. She would come home and talk about all of the latest information that she was privy to and we would just be staggered by the poor decisions and mishandling of things.

    When they went through their big image change, we debated. On one hand you saw them leaving their core audience that had helped to build them up to a respected and empowering business. On the other, you saw Torrid making a shift to a broader audience, which would be better in the long run for female fat acceptance.

    But then you have the current situation. For shame indeed Torrid. The straw has finally broken the Camel’s back for me. This is a blatant endorsement of the propaganda that is perpetuated out there that fat is unhealthy and unattractive. FOR SHAME INDEED!
13. mosessupposes, on May 20th, 2008 at 11:35 am Said:

    “Damn Torrid, we finally get you in Alaska, I spend on you what I paid for my car, and you pull this.”

    Katilane — I know; it hurts, doesn’t it? Bastards.
14. iva, on May 20th, 2008 at 11:49 am Said:

    Um, if Torrid’s customers lose weight, won’t Torrid be losing customers?
15. v'ron, on May 20th, 2008 at 12:30 pm Said:

    iva — i had the exact same question. And to remove the emotion from it, Actually, I had the same questions as Tim. What marketing person at Torrid thought that telling their customers, “Even if you buy our clothes, you still look lousy because you’re fat” was a good idea? why tell your target market “you’re not good enough”?

    It devalues their brand: “Torrid: the store for people who aren’t thin enough.” “The store for the also-rans. The wanna-bes.” Gee, i really want to identify with that.

    What possible business case could be made for this? I don’t even have to get into the emotional and annoying part of the decision. On a purely economic, business and marketing level, this is just plain stupid ass.
16. DiosaNegra1967, on May 21st, 2008 at 12:51 pm Said:

    Alas, they now have corset tops and the like, however, this whole thing has left a bad taste in my mouth….

    And, I was really appreciating them….what a shame.
17. Angelle, on June 14th, 2008 at 12:45 am Said:

    Torrid never fooled me. Their clothing (like someone else mentioned) seemed to infantilize fat women when it wasn’t just down right ugly. I found the clothing, in addition to be of poor quality came with the stench of desperation (maybe that’s why it cost so much!).

    Like most plus sized retailers they operation on a faulty premise: fat people are just skinny people with MORE FAT. That’s bullshit. I am not a size 8 with more fluff, I’m a size 14, with my own unique body. It’s not merely about adding more fabric, but rather it should be about dressing THIS particularly body. I think Torrid is awful in this regard because it is still telling women there is a standard that you must aspire to in order to ever have a shot at being considered “attractive”, which is hardly size accepting or positive.
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