OMGWTFBBW!!
Ezinearticles.com just made a list of the “Top 40 BBWs of all time.” Sounds good, right? Sure, until you get to the list, and you realize that some of the women on it are not all what most people would consider “BBW”s. Mo’nique, Camryn Manheim, Mama Cass, Rosie O’Donnell… sure. But Jamie Lee Curtis? Sophia Loren? Kate Winslet? And of course, Marilyn Monroe is number one. Marilyn’s Law strikes again!
Fat Lot of Good says it all:
J.Anthony, the founder of BBWSinglesFinder, claims that it is time to “celebrate real women” (emphasis mine). Last time I checked even skinny women were real women. Weight does not have bearing on whether someone is a “real” woman or not. Claiming that a thin woman isn’t a “real” woman is just as offensive as claiming a fat woman isn’t a “real” woman…
I do take issue with J.Anthony’s assertion that BBW “does not necessarily mean a fat woman”. He says that “A BBW is a woman who is proud of who she is and isn’t ashamed of her body… A true BBW is confident, sexy and real.” Hmmm…ok…so a size 0 who is proud of who she is and unashamed of her body is a BBW? Somehow I don’t think so.
So, I’m interested in your thoughts on the term BBW. To me, the first B means that it refers to a “big” woman—but what’s the cutoff point for that? Do you think Margaret Cho belongs on this list? How about Carnie Wilson, who had weight-loss surgery—does she still qualify? Do you consider yourself a BBW? Why or why not?
(By the way, the title of this post comes from Kevin’s typo when we were playing Scrabulous.)
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: America Ferrera, Celebrities, Fat Positive, Kate Winslet, Marilyn's Law, Queen Latifah, Question, Rosie O'Donnell, WLS
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I find the whole idea of the BBW incredibly patronizing and I refuse to have anything to do with it. A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman, whether she’s a size 2 or a size 28.
Now, the idea of a “real” woman actually is interesting. A lot of men like, or could potentially like, the company of larger women, in the living room, in bed, in the car on a road trip. But in public they feel the need to be seen with a thin woman because that’s the more socially-approved kind of arm candy, just as they’d rather drive a BMW than a Saturn. Not that thin women are necessarily objects, but whether by luck or by hard work they have a characteristic that’s considered aspirational for men who see women as consumer goods. So the idea of loving a “real” woman, whether she’s chubby with a beautiful face or thin with acne and limp hair or rich with wrinkles or just plain unattractive with a great sense of humor, is a strike against the consumer-object model of womanhood.
I associate BBW with fetishism, so I don’t ever refer to anyone as BBW. I consider myself soft and huggable with some killer curves thrown in for good measure.
BBW ~ big can mean just about anything, but I remember when BBW Magazine came out, most of the women in there were fat, and I don’t mean just a little overweight, some of them were obese (gawd, I hate those terms). So, for me, big in that BBW way has always meant fat, fat according to the models I saw in BBW Magazine, not fat in society’s view, which is anything over a size 4. Back then, I considered myself a BBW, and hung out in the BBW chat rooms on mIRC (before I knew about blogging).
Now, well, now I’m ambivalent about BBW labeling. I’m not “big”, I’m fat. I’m not beautiful, not in the way society defines beautiful, but in the way that my husband sees me, friends see me, and my kid/grandkids see me. And that’s a beauty I’ll take any day over conventional beauty.
What bugs me about the whole “who’s a BBW and belongs on the list” is why the hell do we have to have a BBW list in the first place? Why can’t women be beautiful, no matter what size they are? Thin, fat, in-between, all women are beautiful, each in their own special way, whether “society” thinks so or not.
Seeing as how it’s well-documented that the AVERAGE American woman is about a size 14/16, I don’t see how anything below that can be considered “plus-sized” no matter what the fashion industry says. (And since so much of what it says is totally insane, who wants to drink THAT Kool-Aid)?
BBW refers to women who are physically larger than average. That’s my personal definition. I get so sick of seeing skinny women referred to as “curvy” in magazines and praised for “embracing their curves”. What are they supposed to do, commit suicide because they aren’t sticks? Puh-leeze!
14. Nell Carter – The lovable house mother on Facts of Life and a beautiful BBW as well
Wait–What? I think I’ll be a little judgemental and base the overall quality of the article on that particular erroneous entry.
You know, the whole problem with BBW is this, where does that leave ugly people? Seriously, some of us weren’t lucky enough to win that particular genetic lottery, we’d like to have the same worth as the attractive people.
On the “real women” thing, it was never meant to be a slap to women who were thin. Real women don’t roll out of bed looking Photoshopped into complete unreality. Real women aren’t retouched illustrations of women. Think of it like The Treachery of Images, a reminder that women are people and not the images that the media manipulates to sell us products. It’s a reminder that we don’t have to work relentlessly to be those images because we already are woman enough. The only problem I have with it, other than the fact that people are constantly whinging about how it’s so UNFAIR to x group of women, is that marketing people have co-opted it in order to divide us and sell us more self-loathing.
Real women have curves, and stretch marks, and wrinkles, and pimples, and visible pores, and bad hair days, and flabby arms, and body hair, and dark circles, and gray hair… These are not things that need to be fixed with makeup, hairspray, or heavy-handed digital retouching.
I did a little research as I am (sadly) becoming my father.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBW
You’ll note the official definition is a woman that is overweight or obese. and if you continue on and see the origin it tells you that it was indeed coined to describe overweight women in the late 70’s.
I personally have no problem with women of all size owning themselves and being proud. I think that’s why we have the term “size acceptance”. Accept yourself at any size but seriously, Marilyn Monroe was NOT a BBW. she was an AVERAGE size woman. Just because the olsen twins seem to be the norm today because of all the buzz, it doesnt mean they are!
I never liked that term bbw because it sounds more like the object of a sexual fetish to me.
And does it mean that all big women are beautiful, or only some women meet certain standards of beauty are BBWs? I do not consider myself a BBW. I’m just a beautiful woman who is a size 16.
My only real experience with the term was from trying a few of the BBW dating sites. I’m 5’8 and a solid size 24, and this was the first time I’ve ever been rejected for being too thin. There were also plenty of men there who did appreciate my body, but I think that J Anthony is not representative of his users.
I don’t like the term in general, but I do like the attitudes of a lot of the groups who have adopted it.
Carnie Wilson gained weight after her WLS and now weighs about 200 pounds.
I dislike the term BBW – I think it’s a euphemism for fat and one that requires much more energy to say. And the term further separates women as thin and beautiful and fat and beautiful. It’s like there are two entirely different markers of beauty for women, depending on what size you wear. Can’t women just be beautiful, period?
Camryn Manheim is also a former BBW, and in a rather recent magazine article, she says she’s specifically AGAINST fat acceptance. She had a heart attack scare recently (not a real one but she thought she was having one) and assumed her weight was to blame (oh, and maybe her rampant smoking habit might have had something to do with it) so she lost a bunch of weight. I didn’t even recognize her in the photo.
I think that there should be a size requirement for that award. I don’t think that BBW is “size inclusive.” That’s ridiculous! Wearing a size with a W after it should qualify you (16W, 18W, etc). Otherwise, you’re just a BeautifulWoman instead of a BigBeautifulWoman, right?
Kind of a no-brainer, really. I mean, I support body positivity at all weights/heights/shapes, but if you’re giving out awards, then have some specific measurable criteria. “Feeling good about yourself” is not really quantifiable…
I associate “BBW” with singles ads that cater to specific preferences for bigger women and it seems like a perfectly good term for that purpose. Outside of that context, though, it’s a little weird, like being called a “hottie” instead of a woman. Just because I’m a W doesn’t mean I have to care whether or not you think my B is B, so MYOB, OK?
I’m sorry. I just can’t get beyond the idea of Jamie Lee Curtis and Kate Winslet as BBWs. Beautiful women? Absolutely! But they are hardly what I would call Big, which is kind of the point of BBW: that it’s possible to be both Big and Beautiful.
As far as I’m concerned, anyone too small to fit the sizes at an average Plus-Size clothing store (Lane Bryant, IGIGI, etc.) is definitely out of the running for big, no matter how beautiful they may be, and is clearly not a BBW.
I dunno. I think any statement that says “Real ___ have/are/love/hate ____” is just total B.S.
“Real women have curves.” No, real women have a vagina. That’s the only thing separating women from non-women. And honestly? Sometimes “real women” don’t have a vagina yet (IMHO, YMMV).
The problem comes in not when you attempt to define “woman”, but rather, when you attempt to define “real”. What’s real? What’s normal? Sometimes it’s easier to define what something isn’t than what something is.
So, what is a Real BBW? Beats the crap out of me. The term doesn’t appeal to me, and i never really use it.
So I’m going to get all feminist/academic, but wev.
Yes, this real/not real thing is ridiculous. It is just my opinion, but I have found that people who are less political (or hardcore) about fat/body or who are less into body politics, if you will, tend to use this real/not real dichotomy more and also disparage smaller women more. The broader picture is that those arguments only continue to damage women and people’s bodies. “Turning the tables” isn’t progress.
And that is in large part why I don’t identify as a BBW. I am fat (among other things). Politically and as a feminist, I feel that BBW is oriented toward being pleasing to the eyes and desires of men. But I don’t feel that we have to be beautiful to men to be valuable, nor do I feel that we have to be beautiful at all to be valuable. Though I do understand it is a cultural value and thus it generally FEELS good to feel beautiful…and most people want to feel beautiful and feel good. However, I feel that the perpetuation of those two values constrain us as women and contribute to our continued domination.
One question I will ask everyone…just because I think it’s interesting….
Is there a difference between being fat and being a BBW, in reference to size? In other words, are there inbetweenies who you’d consider a BBW but not fat or fat but not a BBW?
I’m sorry, Kate Winslet is BIG? Jamie Lee Curtis?
And I completely agree; all women are real women!!!! Show me a naturally thin woman and, chances are, she hates her small breasts, or her narrow hips, or her smaller butt. We can’t win as long as we let others set the standards for us. When we start loving ourselves and each other AS WE ARE, then we can have a little peace!
I don’t really like the term BBW due to the way that it is sexualized. When you google the term BBW 80% of the hits are related to porn (if not more). WTF!!!
Am I Big? Yes. Am I Beautiful? Yes. Am I a Woman? Last time I checked. But I don’t call myself a BBW due to the sexual stigma attached to it in today’s society. I guess I prefer the terms curvy, voluptous, etc.
As far as who qualifies as a BBW. That is a tricky question, because whenever you try to define a group or set up limits on who can and can’t belong you are in a sense practicing a form of discimination and prejudice. And that is not what FA is about. Who cares if a size zero wants to call herself a BBW? I sure don’t. Maybe she is a fat person trapped in a thin person’s body and is just expressing her true nature.
Oh yes, all women are real women!
My understanding of a BBW was a woman who was plus-sized. This guy has got it wrong, for sure.
The “cutoff point” bothers me – not just specifically relating to BBWs, but to fat in general. At 5’8″, 170 lbs, I wear a size 12, and I have fat on my body (I’m pretty thick-waisted), but overall, I’m not fat. If I gained 20 lbs and wore a size 16, would I then be fat, or would the fact that I’m tall mean that I was just a little bit fat?
Then there’s the saying “oh, but you’re not fat” to people who obviously are fat, usually by some well-meaning person who actually means “well, you are fat, but you don’t fit in with my view of what fat people are.” That’s a topic that’s been done around the fat-o-sphere much better than I could do it!
So I guess the point to this long-winded comment is: the cut-off thing is problematic, and I don’t know how we’d go about solving it.
I was tempted to defend Kate Winslet because I think she’s fabulous and refuses to apologize for her body or be airbrushed… But then I thought, Keira Knightley is also really unabashed about *her* body, and she is totally not a BBW…. I dunno, I don’t think we even have 40 BBWs in the public eye!
And no, Carnie Wilson doesn’t count because she has *major* issues with her body, and, I would argue, is a no talent ass clown. The next time she makes a headline for her *music* I might give her a 2nd chance. …Okay, yeah, I have issues with Carnie Wilson. :-I She just seems so revoltingly fake! Ick. :-P
So now BBW means “any woman I find f#$%able.”
I think of BBW as size 14 or above.
I’m a size 20 and I think I’m on the small end of what I consider BBW… my friend and I used to call ourselves baby BBWs a while back and we were a 14/16 and an 18/20 at the time, so I think the lower end is around there. Guys most often have told me that I’m “thick” or “voluptuous”… I don’t know if that helped on the BBW definition
They justified Jame Lee Curtis because she wouldn’t let the magazine she was on the cover of airbrush her picture. And Kate Winslet is my absolute favorite BBW. She’s not really that big, but she fights for her image as a real sized woman. She’s active in speaking out against magazines and the media who want to airbrush her thighs thin on magazine covers, and she continues to fight for size acceptance.
I say a Big Beautiful Woman who is REAL, who accepts herself as she is and doesn’t care if she’s big or small. In fact, let’s just change it to Beautiful Woman. The BIG part can be left out. We’re all beautiful. Let’s start believing it.
I think it is appropriate to call yourself a BBW if you would say it in the personals when advertising yourself, and your date wouldn’t call you a liar.
BTW Your google ads, eek. “Fat? You Have Parasites” Egad!
…don’t you have to be big to be a big beautiful woman? bbw does not stand for real woman. that should be pretty obvious. cut and dry. we can’t have anything good.
Thanks for the mention Mo! That list of women still irritates me when I think about it!
Personally I find the term BBW patronising but prior to my fat becoming politicised (for me) I didn’t mind it so much. Now I just say I am FAT, beforehand I couldn’t bring myself to say the F word. See what the fat blogs have done to me! ; )
As for who it applies to, well no one cos I hate the term! lol. Seriously though, I have trouble considering anyone under a size 20 to be fat. I know that isn’t a popular view and that the BMI would say otherwise but my personal concept of fat is size 20 and over. Size 18 maybe. But I just have trouble classing women as fat when they are a size 16 or less *shrug*
Of course I am not going to argue with them about it, and I am not going to say they shouldnt be in FA because they have ever right to and if they see themselves as fat then ok. It’s just that *I* don’t (and who cares what I think?! lol)
If Jamie Lee Curtis is a BBW, the term is meaningless — the first B is nothing more than a stutter.
Also…you know, maybe J. Anthony has connections I don’t comprehend, but how exactly does he know whether Sophia Loren and Jamie Lee Curtis are proud of who they are? Has he met them? Is he their really close friend? (And where do I get that gig?)
Also, how does he know who is and is not ashamed of her body? And wasn’t Marilyn pretty much the opposite of confident, by all reports? …Were there women who got disqualified on grounds of insufficient real-ness?
Here’s a fun piece a friend alerted me to on YouTube. Now THIS is a BBW. (No fear, it’s body-positive. Also really, really cute).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE5Zytj45fI
I find the whole BBW movement and the associated fetish communities to be troublesome for a lot of reasons… It’s a useful descriptor but I wrote a whole post a couple of months ago about making the switch from self-identifying as “BBW” to the less-euphemistic “fat” a few months ago. One thing to note it that making that switch (away from the euphemism) is an absolute nail in the coffin of an online dating profile.
And I still don’t get people who are trying to reclaim “curvy” as exclusive to small, tiny-waisted women with T&A. Like, “I’m curvy but in the Scarlett Johansson way” seems to be this anti-fatty posturing. But then you’ll see someone else say they like a “curvy woman” and clearly mean fat.
I, for one, am all for eschewing all fat euphemisms to stop these arguments of fat people trying to “trick” other people into thinking they aren’t fat. Don’t you see how wrong it is to steal key adjectives like “curvy” from more deserving, culturally desirable women!?
Am I a BBW and when did I start thinking of myself that way? When my sizes started ending in the word “teen”. Even more so when they began including “twenty”.
Does your dress size contain the word “teen”? No? You’re not a BBW then, honey. You’re normal. Enjoy it, embrace it and love yourself for who you are. “Teen” or not.
Of course, even this definition needs work due to vanity sizing.
I think that most people, honestly, think of someone as “fat” if they’re heavier than they themselves are. “normal” is where they want to be, and “skinny” is anything below that. That’s the only set of metrics I’ve been able to figure out.
Oh, and earlier, Cindy mentioned, “Seeing as how it’s well-documented that the AVERAGE American woman is about a size 14/16…” Is this the case? I’m just curious, because I hadn’t heard it before (and it seems a little off to me, but like I said, I haven’t seen the research).
It’s been documented for several years that the “average” American woman is a size 14/16, which used to be a regular large size back many moons ago, now it’s plus size. I was at one point a size 13 and considered myself average.
Now I’m a big fat size 26/28 (sometimes a 24 depending on where I shop). You can look at me and say “hell yeah, she’s fat.” I used to get offended with that term, but now I embrace it. It’s who I am. I never referred to myself as a BBW. I always called myself big.
As for the list, many on there are not actual BBW. They’re beautiful, they’re women, but they’re not fat.
BBW to me is any woman who is beautiful, but also ‘bigger’/’heavier’. She doesn’t let her weight or size, which is above society’s crazy standard, stop her from living her life, or knowing that she’s beautiful. She’s fine with the size she is, and carries herself with self-respect, class, and elegance. More importantly, she’s NOT trying to lose weight, DOES NOT place a condition on her appearance, knows she’s JUST as fabulous as the ‘smaller’ women, and ISN’T down on herself.