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	<title>Comments on: Hyacinth Hippo</title>
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	<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/</link>
	<description>We&#039;re bringing chubby back.</description>
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		<title>By: ginger</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9589</link>
		<dc:creator>ginger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 01:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9589</guid>
		<description>Revisiting your questions from the earlier comment, littlem, movies produced before 1960 aren&#039;t required to pay residuals under the SAG agreement. According to their website, after the strike of March 1960, SAG accepted a lump payment with which it set up the health and pension plan as recompense for the residuals owed between 1948 and 1960.

Not that it applies for Ms. Noel&#039;s posing for reference art for &quot;Fantasia&quot; anyway, because there was no direct performance, but for her performance in &quot;Irene&quot;, she wouldn&#039;t have been eligible for residuals, since it came out in 1940. So neither she nor her heirs would be collecting residuals.

I would be saddened but completely unsurprised if she was paid less for her performance and rehearsal time in &quot;Irene&quot; than the white dancers of lesser caliber and lower screen time -  black performers of that era, and women, were discriminated against quite blatantly in matters of pay. Even in the unlikely event that she and the other performers in the &quot;Harlem&quot; scene were fairly recompensed, there&#039;s a lot of discomfiting subtext and stereotype in that scene. Do you feel &quot;squeegy&quot; about the Fantasia scenes, too? (They&#039;re not hard to find at Youtube - search fantasia elephant ballet and you&#039;ll get them.) It&#039;s actually a surprisingly dignified piece, considering that it&#039;s a bunch of dancing animals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Revisiting your questions from the earlier comment, littlem, movies produced before 1960 aren&#8217;t required to pay residuals under the SAG agreement. According to their website, after the strike of March 1960, SAG accepted a lump payment with which it set up the health and pension plan as recompense for the residuals owed between 1948 and 1960.</p>
<p>Not that it applies for Ms. Noel&#8217;s posing for reference art for &#8220;Fantasia&#8221; anyway, because there was no direct performance, but for her performance in &#8220;Irene&#8221;, she wouldn&#8217;t have been eligible for residuals, since it came out in 1940. So neither she nor her heirs would be collecting residuals.</p>
<p>I would be saddened but completely unsurprised if she was paid less for her performance and rehearsal time in &#8220;Irene&#8221; than the white dancers of lesser caliber and lower screen time &#8211;  black performers of that era, and women, were discriminated against quite blatantly in matters of pay. Even in the unlikely event that she and the other performers in the &#8220;Harlem&#8221; scene were fairly recompensed, there&#8217;s a lot of discomfiting subtext and stereotype in that scene. Do you feel &#8220;squeegy&#8221; about the Fantasia scenes, too? (They&#8217;re not hard to find at Youtube &#8211; search fantasia elephant ballet and you&#8217;ll get them.) It&#8217;s actually a surprisingly dignified piece, considering that it&#8217;s a bunch of dancing animals.</p>
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		<title>By: littlem</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9588</link>
		<dc:creator>littlem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 00:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9588</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;Yellowhammer,&lt;/b&gt; if I&#039;m not mistaken, the effect to which you&#039;re referring in your last comment is something the legal term for which (in circumstances, of course, where actual injury, and a link between the alleged perp&#039;s behavior and the alleged injury, can be &lt;i&gt;proven&lt;/i&gt; to a court&#039;s satisfaction) is &lt;i&gt;disparate impact.&lt;/i&gt;

*sigh*

I&#039;m multiracial, and one of the races compounding my &quot;multi&quot; is white -- there are others, but I try to assume nothing goes without saying -- so I feel OK saying this to y&#039;all well-meaning people.

Please start here:

http://books.google.com/books?id=l4gCH1bF5awC&amp;pg=PA103&amp;lpg=PA103&amp;dq=%22a+black+person%22+%22a+white+person%22+constitutional+impact&amp;source=web&amp;ots=yLtQB4aclF&amp;sig=hdnzafDgU28kgyxyzdFsUUjGZ3A&amp;hl=en#PPA103,M1

at page 103.

(You may have to pump the magnifying glass twice, depending on screen size and/or visual acuity.)

If that doesn&#039;t give you a little more context for why some folks might feel a touch squeegy about the program&#039;s *ahem* &lt;i&gt;presentation,&lt;/i&gt; Google &quot;white privilege&quot; and see what you come back with.

If you&#039;re &lt;i&gt;still&lt;/i&gt; having trouble after &lt;i&gt;that,&lt;/i&gt; then the best I can do is suggest you be MUCH less exasperated the next time some gym rat lunkhead or size 00 person who never struggled with her weight squeaks/bellows at you:

&quot;Weight loss and maintenance is all the same for all people!  Just eat less and move more!&quot;

*smh*

As many women have had to say to many men:

Just because YOU don&#039;t see/feel/hear/otherwise witness something happening DOES NOT mean it isn&#039;t happening.

And, &lt;b&gt;Yellowhammer&lt;/b&gt;? If you think the situation is so much much much better now, please feel free to read the first five sentences of the comment I made prior to your making such a cheery statement.

&#039;Cause right now I&#039;m feeling like that whistled right on by you and you didn&#039;t even feel the breeze.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Yellowhammer,</b> if I&#8217;m not mistaken, the effect to which you&#8217;re referring in your last comment is something the legal term for which (in circumstances, of course, where actual injury, and a link between the alleged perp&#8217;s behavior and the alleged injury, can be <i>proven</i> to a court&#8217;s satisfaction) is <i>disparate impact.</i></p>
<p>*sigh*</p>
<p>I&#8217;m multiracial, and one of the races compounding my &#8220;multi&#8221; is white &#8212; there are others, but I try to assume nothing goes without saying &#8212; so I feel OK saying this to y&#8217;all well-meaning people.</p>
<p>Please start here:</p>
<p><a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=l4gCH1bF5awC&amp;pg=PA103&amp;lpg=PA103&amp;dq=%22a+black+person%22+%22a+white+person%22+constitutional+impact&amp;source=web&amp;ots=yLtQB4aclF&amp;sig=hdnzafDgU28kgyxyzdFsUUjGZ3A&amp;hl=en#PPA103,M1" rel="nofollow">http://books.google.com/books?id=l4gCH1bF5awC&amp;pg=PA103&amp;lpg=PA103&amp;dq=%22a+black+person%22+%22a+white+person%22+constitutional+impact&amp;source=web&amp;ots=yLtQB4aclF&amp;sig=hdnzafDgU28kgyxyzdFsUUjGZ3A&amp;hl=en#PPA103,M1</a></p>
<p>at page 103.</p>
<p>(You may have to pump the magnifying glass twice, depending on screen size and/or visual acuity.)</p>
<p>If that doesn&#8217;t give you a little more context for why some folks might feel a touch squeegy about the program&#8217;s *ahem* <i>presentation,</i> Google &#8220;white privilege&#8221; and see what you come back with.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re <i>still</i> having trouble after <i>that,</i> then the best I can do is suggest you be MUCH less exasperated the next time some gym rat lunkhead or size 00 person who never struggled with her weight squeaks/bellows at you:</p>
<p>&#8220;Weight loss and maintenance is all the same for all people!  Just eat less and move more!&#8221;</p>
<p>*smh*</p>
<p>As many women have had to say to many men:</p>
<p>Just because YOU don&#8217;t see/feel/hear/otherwise witness something happening DOES NOT mean it isn&#8217;t happening.</p>
<p>And, <b>Yellowhammer</b>? If you think the situation is so much much much better now, please feel free to read the first five sentences of the comment I made prior to your making such a cheery statement.</p>
<p>&#8216;Cause right now I&#8217;m feeling like that whistled right on by you and you didn&#8217;t even feel the breeze.</p>
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		<title>By: Fat Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9594</link>
		<dc:creator>Fat Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 23:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9594</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know what to make of it but I do wanna say that I think she&#039;s gorgeous :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know what to make of it but I do wanna say that I think she&#8217;s gorgeous :D</p>
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		<title>By: yellowhammer</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9593</link>
		<dc:creator>yellowhammer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9593</guid>
		<description>The issue I felt we were referring to is the fact that this particular piece of disney history- that a black model was used for the hippos, has been kept under wraps for a long time, whereas when a white model was used, they generally revealed who the model was. I for instance have known for years that live (white) models were used for Peter Pan, especially for tinkerbell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue I felt we were referring to is the fact that this particular piece of disney history- that a black model was used for the hippos, has been kept under wraps for a long time, whereas when a white model was used, they generally revealed who the model was. I for instance have known for years that live (white) models were used for Peter Pan, especially for tinkerbell.</p>
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		<title>By: ginger</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9587</link>
		<dc:creator>ginger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 21:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9587</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure it&#039;s her size that&#039;s being played for laughs, there - I think it&#039;s actually the dress with the insane bustle. That sounds far-fetched, but the whole plot of &quot;Irene,&quot; the musical from which the clip rises, hinges on dressmaking.

She sure doesn&#039;t look happy in the posed reference photos, though, which makes me wonder how much she was the butt of the Fantasia joke. (Fantasia is still hands-down my favorite Disney musical.) Of course, the ballet in Fantasia isn&#039;t just hippos - ostriches, alligators and elephants are all played for laughs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure it&#8217;s her size that&#8217;s being played for laughs, there &#8211; I think it&#8217;s actually the dress with the insane bustle. That sounds far-fetched, but the whole plot of &#8220;Irene,&#8221; the musical from which the clip rises, hinges on dressmaking.</p>
<p>She sure doesn&#8217;t look happy in the posed reference photos, though, which makes me wonder how much she was the butt of the Fantasia joke. (Fantasia is still hands-down my favorite Disney musical.) Of course, the ballet in Fantasia isn&#8217;t just hippos &#8211; ostriches, alligators and elephants are all played for laughs.</p>
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		<title>By: hot as ice</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9592</link>
		<dc:creator>hot as ice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 20:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9592</guid>
		<description>disney did use all models u have to fit the body tip that they wanted
i bet she got payed and they did not kid nap her dress her up have make her dance
if they did not use her because shes black that would be racist</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>disney did use all models u have to fit the body tip that they wanted<br />
i bet she got payed and they did not kid nap her dress her up have make her dance<br />
if they did not use her because shes black that would be racist</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9586</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 19:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9586</guid>
		<description>Her size is clearly being played for laughs in the Alice Blue Gown clip. Race, I don&#039;t see issues-- you&#039;ve got the Dandridge sisters as the chorus on the balcony and a pretty multiracial group of dancers overall.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Her size is clearly being played for laughs in the Alice Blue Gown clip. Race, I don&#8217;t see issues&#8211; you&#8217;ve got the Dandridge sisters as the chorus on the balcony and a pretty multiracial group of dancers overall.</p>
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		<title>By: mo pie</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9585</link>
		<dc:creator>mo pie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9585</guid>
		<description>Some of the people in the comments suggested that equating a black woman with an animal was inherently racist---I would guess, however, that the animators used live-action models of all races for their animal characters.  So I didn&#039;t really see any racism there---but there could be issues I&#039;m not seeing.

The video of the audience laughing at Hattie&#039;s performance looked like it could be taken two ways, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the people in the comments suggested that equating a black woman with an animal was inherently racist&#8212;I would guess, however, that the animators used live-action models of all races for their animal characters.  So I didn&#8217;t really see any racism there&#8212;but there could be issues I&#8217;m not seeing.</p>
<p>The video of the audience laughing at Hattie&#8217;s performance looked like it could be taken two ways, though.</p>
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		<title>By: lisa-marie</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9578</link>
		<dc:creator>lisa-marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:15:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9578</guid>
		<description>I personally don&#039;t see anything racist about this piece. The animators obviously wanted a live dancer to reference while drawing Hyacinth - probably to get the ballet moves right - and Hattie Noel fit the bill. So what if she&#039;s a black woman? What does that have to do with anything? Am I missing something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I personally don&#8217;t see anything racist about this piece. The animators obviously wanted a live dancer to reference while drawing Hyacinth &#8211; probably to get the ballet moves right &#8211; and Hattie Noel fit the bill. So what if she&#8217;s a black woman? What does that have to do with anything? Am I missing something?</p>
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		<title>By: Carol Gwenn</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/03/04/hyacinth-hippo/comment-page-1/#comment-9584</link>
		<dc:creator>Carol Gwenn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 18:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=383#comment-9584</guid>
		<description>What a marvelous piece of movie history!  Not just the &quot;Fantasia&quot;-prep stills, but that fabulous video from &quot;Irene&quot; - they just don&#039;t make &#039;em like that anymore, and more&#039;s the pity I say.

Take a look at the video: there&#039;s a really big sister dancing her ass off center stage, taking a  back seat to no one, just tearing up the joint. Then look at the stills; she&#039;s obviously being directed by the artists to give them the sense of movement they want for the character.  Dozens of actors have, over the decades, served as models for animated characters, both bi-and multi-peds, and it&#039;s rare to know their names or what they really looked like.

So - lay off the pc bs &amp; take this at face value as a great footnote moment in Hollywood&#039;s hysterical history. If you can&#039;t do that, well, maybe you just need to go to the movies more often.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a marvelous piece of movie history!  Not just the &#8220;Fantasia&#8221;-prep stills, but that fabulous video from &#8220;Irene&#8221; &#8211; they just don&#8217;t make &#8216;em like that anymore, and more&#8217;s the pity I say.</p>
<p>Take a look at the video: there&#8217;s a really big sister dancing her ass off center stage, taking a  back seat to no one, just tearing up the joint. Then look at the stills; she&#8217;s obviously being directed by the artists to give them the sense of movement they want for the character.  Dozens of actors have, over the decades, served as models for animated characters, both bi-and multi-peds, and it&#8217;s rare to know their names or what they really looked like.</p>
<p>So &#8211; lay off the pc bs &amp; take this at face value as a great footnote moment in Hollywood&#8217;s hysterical history. If you can&#8217;t do that, well, maybe you just need to go to the movies more often.</p>
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