You Can Cheer If You Want To
Angela sends along a story about baseball’s Florida Marlins, who are forming a male plus-size cheerleading squad called the Manatees.
The team hopes to recruit seven to 10 tubby men to dance, cheer and jiggle during Friday and Saturday home games this season. Real manatees, 1,200-pound mammals sometimes referred to as “sea cows,” are not considered the most agile of creatures and often get caught in boat propellers.
The Marlins want their Manatees to have the same dimensions, but to be decidedly more agile. Men will be judged on how well they dance a choreographed routine… Men selected for the Manatees won’t be paid. They’ll get tickets to games they perform at, and the honor of dancing in front of crowds that have been smallest in major league baseball for the last two seasons.
Of course, the article is accompanied by photos of thin cheerleaders who make up the team’s traditionally built female cheer squad, the Mermaids. So what do you guys think? Is this just a “laugh at the fatties and look at them jiggle” ploy? Or, since the men are volunteering, is it all in good fun?
Posted by mo pie
When I first read about this a few days ago I thought it was a joke, but on further thought I saw nothing funny about it. On the other hand since the guys volunteered they don’t seem to have a problem with it so neither do I.
Plus-size male cheerleading/dance troupes for sports teams are a trend right now, especially in the NBA. I’m pretty sure the Chicago Bulls have one, and…I want to say Detroit? There are a couple others but I can’t find the article where I read that. I haven’t seen them perform, but apparently audiences go apeshit for them. I think it’s cool!
Fatties have been volunteering themselves for ridicule for ages. The men being volunteers doesn’t make this any less an instance of “ZOMG, look at how FUNNY fat people are.”
I think it’s some of both. If the men become really skilled cheerleaders, I think the net effect could well be good.
Yeah, it’s quite likely the traditional use of fat men as comic relief or something to gawk at, probably dating back from at least the days of circus sideshows.
Oh look, a fatty minstrel show.
Sorry, that’s exactly how I feel about it. If they end up feeling good they’re getting laughed at for being fat, fine, whatever floats your boat.
I find this disgusting for both the reasons The Rotund describes, but also, lay off the manatees! Sure, the creatures aren’t graceful on land, but manatees are graceful and strong in water. They move as if they, I dunno, belong there and are deserving of respect and happiness. It’s a tragedy how motor boating in manatee waters still continues. Those creatures deserve far more respect than we give them.
Too bad the Marlins are unaware that both manatees and humans beings, regardless of how “hilarious” they think they look, deserve respect and courtesy and some basic fucking dignity.
(And also, the little aside about “sea cows?” Disgusting. There’s no way that wasn’t just another “Hurr hurr, these guys are gonna look like cows! HILARIOUS” tag. Ugh, I’m gonna be sick.)
I’m with BigLiberty. It’s like the funny fat guy sidekick in the mainstream movie.
I would take it more seriously if the men were being compensated for their time. If they really wanted professional-level large-men dancers, they could totally have them… but only for pay. Without it, I think it’s going to be not just “look at the funny fat guys,” but “look at the funny pathetic former frat guys who never grew up.”
Im’ with Madge on this. I think it’s outrageous the way sports teams treat their dancers/cheerleaders with regard to compensation.
Previously, to me at least, it was a feminist issue. Baseball and football players earn millions for their contributions to the entertainment of the public (and that’s all it is — entertainment), but the cheerleaders are paid almost nothing, while still having to train, travel, etc. as much as the team.
For example, a woman on one of the more famous squads, the Dallas Cowboy Cheerleaders, earns $50 per game. The lower paid Cowboys players earn about $150k per game.
I’m boggled that you’re offended about yesterday’s billboard and not the fat cheerleading squad.
Um, while I do believe that the purpose is to laugh at the men and therefore frustrating, these men are receiving some compensation for participating. They are attending these games for free, and more than likely they will be able to meet team members at some point or another. While I would not consider this adequate compensation, it may be that some of these men do.
Is a minstrel show that’s compensated any less a minstrel show?
I don’t see what makes compensating what they’re doing so non-fattist, really.
I saw this on AOL news and posted something about it on BFB. I had a mixed reaction to it, as well as to their Chicago counterparts, the Matadors. At least the Matadors have a name that sounds somewhat dignified. The “Manatees” might as well call themselves the “Sea Cows.” I wonder if they picked that name themselves.
Anywho, on to my mixed reaction. They’re volunteering, so obviously they don’t see themselves as victims. They apparently have senses of humor about themselves if they’re anything like the Matadors. You can go to the Matadors’ website: http://aol.nba.com/bulls/dance/matadors.html
and clearly see that they see themselves as comedians. They want to be laughed at.
And therein lies my mixed reaction. The’re subjecting themselves to ridicule by putting themselves out there in such a manner. But at the same time, they are laughing in the face of conformity. They are brave for doing what they do, and I respect them for it. And it does show that fat people can be active and fit enough to do things like be on a dance team. But I do feel like they are only allowed to do what they do because the team’s owner or whoever feels it will draw more people to their games. Indeed, “Come see the fatties dance and laugh.”
So, I’m absolutely on the side of “this is totally a ploy to have everyone laugh at the fatties.” For some reason, the SNL skit with Patrick Swayze and Chris Farley at Chippendale dancer tryouts comes to mind… the joke in that was that the fat guy took his dancing and mad skillz seriously but was obviously never, ever going to make it in such a visually-oriented field. He was, ultimately, not to be appreciated but laughed at.
I don’t know much about the men applying for this gig and how much they do/don’t take this seriously. I do think that, regardless of whether one is given money or tickets or whatever in exchange for being set up (with self- knowledge or not) to be the object of a joke — and a joke based on general fat discrimination, at that — well, it just doesn’t ever seem to be ok to me.
If the Marlins really had good intentions here, and were simply trying to be more inclusive, it seems to me they could just open up their current cheering squad to talented people of all body types and sizes. In forming a troop of specifically fat men, however, and naming them after “sea cows,” well … just yet another joke at the expense of fat folks.
I think it’s just another way that society reinforces the idea that it’s okay to laugh at fat people – men or women. The only difference is they laugh at women behind their back but it’s okay to laugh at a man to his face (whether it’s because he can “take it” or because fat men are “always” funny i.e. Jim Belushi, John Candy, Chris Farley, is a discussion for another time). I personally don’t like it – maybe they’ll put on black face and it will be TWICE as funny!
BigLiberty nailed it. At the same time, there’s not much difference in my mind between volunteering to showcase your T&A for career exposure and team spirit, and volunteering to showcase your fat for laughs and team spirit. Both are self-objectification for the sake of entertaining the more-powerful majority.
I get a real “truffle shuffle” vibe from this idea. I think it would be less offensive to me if they were calling them something other than “manatees” which they reference are also referred to as “sea cows”. Cows being one of the most popular thing to call all of us lazy fat people. I mean I understand the “undersea” connection but are they going to get a squad of people with Ectrodactyly (“lobster claw syndrome) and call them the “Lobster squad”? I don’t think so, there would be outrage! The very name the “manatees” says to me that it is playing on the fatness of the participants. They could easily have called them the “Mermen” to fit with the female squad “Mermaids” or the “shore-line” or the “wave squad” or any number of ocean related terms. BOO.
The most offensive part to me is the name…it’s feeding into one of the many animal-related stereotypes and insults used on fat people.
Hmm… not sure on this one. I mean, there are plenty of comedians who play off on the fact they are fat for comedic value and plus size models are using their weight to their artistic advantage… is being compared to a cow a bad thing because they are big? What if they were a group of really tall men called giraffes? Would that be okay? I don’t know, if the men are comfortable with their bodies and enjoy using them to gain a job they obviously want- or wouldn’t volunteer for- why would we all get offended for them, or us? I guess it is like women who strip using their bodies and degrading women in general by making a statment that women are here just to be drooled over in a sexist way? I am not sure when the time will come that we can stop seeing everything everyone does as a statement and admit sometimes it is just some people having fun. Or maybe I just really like cows and don’t think they are so horrible to be compared to? lol.
Normally I’m with the majority here, but on this I think you’re overreacting. Big-guy dance troupes have been very, very popular in the cities where they exist (Philadelphia, Dallas, Chicago, and I think Detroit all have them for basketball). They may have started as a joke but now have a genuine fan base. Some pro sports clubs also have senior-citizen dance troupes…should we all get mad about that too?
Also, re: manatees, aren’t they kind of beloved in Florida? When I was doing some work down there I saw a lot of signs about how boaters should be careful to avoid hurting them.
I think it’s subversion, and just the way I like it. Yes, they want the fatties to be laughed at – but they’re also looking for the fat men to be able to dance. Executing good physical comedy takes real skill and physical discipline – and if they do this with respect for themselves and for their dance form, they could really turn a lot of assumptions about what fat people can and can’t do on their head.
What some here are seeing as exploitation (whether sexy girls or fat men dancing at pro sports games) actually has another side.
I had a class at GMU years ago with a pair of twins who were Washington Redskins cheerleaders and they gave me this bit of info when I asked about why they did it:
Most of these performers aren’t doing this for the money, but for exposure and for an accomplishment to put on a resume. Show biz is tough and it’s hard to get work without experience, so you “takes it where you can gets it” a lot of the time.
I agree wholeheartedly with Di. What they’re asking these men to do is probably quite difficult to do, physically. Yeah, it’s “come laugh at the fatties” but if after the show, people are like, “hey, those fat guys can MOVE!” then I say, it’s a positive thing, very similar to modern freakshows. No one is forcing these guys to do it, nor is anyone forcing *us* to watch them. If they’re confident and talented enough to strut their stuff, then I say more power to them.
You can cheer if you want to
You can leave haterz behind
‘Cause my friends will cheer
And if they don’t cheer – well they’re
No friends of mine
:D
I’m not sure on this one, because on the one hand there’s definitely a “make fun of the fatties” vibe, but on the other hand I don’t feel like it’s malicious in intent at all, and I don’t think there are going to be an awful lot of people focusing on how fat the guys are at the games. So I dunno.
What gets me are the bulk of the comments after the article. It’s the same crap that fat-haters spout: fat people are gross, fat people do nothing but shove food in their mouths and sit on their big asses, etc.
But then when you think about it after a bit, they’re totally contradicting themselves. Here we’ve got a group of fat men who will be up dancing and being active—doing things that fat haters scream at us every day we need to do—and yet they don’t want them to dance and be active because it because they’re fat! You can’t take these people seriously when they’re so hypocritical.
Boaters here in Florida must be aware of manatees by state regulation – they are on the endangered species list. Naming the team the Manatees is not a gesture of affection – it’s playing on a state animal that is commonly known as a sea cow – a stereotypical fatty slur.
And, you know, great that they want guys who can actually dance. Maybe some people WILL say, hey, those dudes can move. But the comparison to a minstrel show is quite apt, I believe. The quality of the show doesn’t detract from the intent – this is a show put on so viewers can laugh at the jiggling fat on the bodies of the performers.
Yup yup yups all around. This is gonna bomb. :( (At least as far as FA is concerned.)
Minstrel show?!? Look, I know how offensive and despicable fat prejudice is in this country, believe me, but fat is not the new black. Fat people have never been enslaved, never denied the right to vote or been subjected to segregation. To equate fat discrimination with racial discrimation in this country is so fucking insulting, you guys. Stop taking yourselves so seriously.
Amen to “stop taking yourselves so seriously.”
Go for it, guys! I hope I get the chance to see them cheer. Far more entertaining than the almost strippers they have for cheerleaders these days. Good clean fun.
Those who are okay with this– if they changed the genders and had a troupe of all-fat female cheerleaders, would you still think it a good thing?
Yeah, I think I would. It’s definitely not something I could do myself, as I am extremely introverted…. But any type of performance job, for a fat person, carries the risk of being made fun of. So should all fat people shrink away from the limelight because someone might say something mean about us? WTF? Most of us run the risk of being made fun of every single day. That doesn’t mean I’m going to shutter myself in my home and never come out. (However, I’ll admit, I’ve been tempted.) For whatever reason, these guys WANT to do this, and I’ll support them. Now, the really interesting thing will be to see if they actually get enough interested guys to go through with this idea…
yeah I saw this and DIDNT LAUGH AT ALL.
thought it was just me….
M.
“I do think that, regardless of whether one is given money or tickets or whatever … well, it just doesn’t ever seem to be ok to me.”
So… you’re saying that fat people shouldn’t be allowed to join a dance squad? Or that choreographers shouldn’t be allowed to work with fat people (at least, not in public)? Maybe some kind of weight-limit should be applied?
I don’t think that was your point (in fact I’m sure it wasn’t), but that would be the only way to enforce what you’re talking about.
Uh, a troup of all fat women cheerleaders and you say that like it is a bad thing? What about that group of all fat women singers that posters here were rooting for on that one talent show just because they were fat?
I interpreted Lisa’s question as meaning that all of the aspects except the gender of the cheerleaders would be the same – the fat-mocking name and the presence of a parallel “serious” cheerleading group of slender women. Of course it’s great and liberating to have a fat dance troupe or a fat cheer squad. I’d love it if we had size-blind troupes and squads, too, where there was a mix of body types. But in this particular case, I think she was getting at the idea that we might be more accepting of fat men making their weight the butt of a joke than we would be of fat women doing the same.
I don’t know, I mean it sounds like it’s just a laugh at fatties things, but there was a plus sized ballet group from Russia that toured the UK a while back and they were amazing. And I mean real plus-sized not plus-sized-for-ballet (they had four men for some of the lists). They were all women who having had you know done it since they were kids, were obsessed, gave it all their time, were really talented etc etc, but had been getting increasingly marginalised by their schools as they grew into their adult bodies…so they formed their own school or something, I don’t quite remember, but hurrah!. Anyway, to quit rambling, the point was they were so graceful and beautiful and such amazing dancers, that even though at first I thought it was just going to be a novelty thing, but by the end I’d forgotten they were ‘fat ballet dancers’, they’d just become dancers.
In fact, if you’d like to read more about them, go here http://www.thebigballet.co.uk/index.php?pid=ensembles&hid=the-big-ballet
To quote “grace, elegance, charisma and nimbleness is not the demesne of the “thin”, proudly presenting their voluptuous yet surprisingly sinuous and flexible figures.”
and go look at the galleries, their amazing, especially the ones of their lead dancer doing arabesques etc.
“You can’t take these people seriously when they’re so hypocritical.”
Nice one, Bree.
So wait… fat people aren’t allowed to be funny now either? Looking through some of the Matador’s material at least, it looks like these guys are big time fans first and foremost and having some fun getting the other fans amped up.
I mean, some of this does upset me. Women are allowed if they’re teensy weensy slender and conventionally pretty, while men are allowed to be large and funny, but neither large women nor fit men are welcome on the squads. And the whole sub-conversation about really poor compensation for squads that are obviously a draw is really interesting.
But just because a fat person is performing humor does that automatically make it a fat minstrel show? If so, we’d have to get rid of a lot of REALLY funny comedians in the name of fat acceptance.
I think that if a plus sized person has the talent, commitment and skills to become a cheerleader, then so be it.
There shouldnt be a too big limit or anything like that. if you have the talent you should be fine & its wrong to make a just “fat” team. Society needs to pul the stick out of its ass and look that people are amazing no matter what shape or size. Everyone is loved by god and thats all that really matters. I’m not plus size but i am somewhere in the middle & have struggled with obiesity my whole life. Somehow this really realates to me.
People need to draw a fine line between what is funny and what hurts & all these fat jokes and pointing and laughing DOES HURT. i mean we are human too. thats like making fun of somebody with blonde hair, blue eyes or skin color. DISCRIMINATION.! Is america really going to go through that type of humiliation on its part just to be a size 0? I would sure hope not. Everyone thinks hitler was wrong and that slaves was wrong. but hey everyone is doing the same thing with discriminating against a bigger race.!
ITS NOT FAIR!!!! People just need to take a stand and realize history is repeating itself over and over again with discrimination.