Anorexia Is Hott
According to Elle magazine, by way of Jezebel, men actually are hot for ultra-thin women. At least in New York.
You know that whole thing about how being superskinny is an ideal originated by the fashion industry and perpetuated by female competitiveness and like, totally NOT AT ALL what men are interested in etc. etc.? Well that’s bullshit, says a story in the March Elle by Amanda Fortini, a 5’6 woman who dropped to 100 pounds a few years back. “Many men, I quickly learned, really do like frighteningly lean women, whatever they may claim to the controversy. As an average, medium-size young woman, I was unremarkable, innocuous. As a skinny slip of a thing, I was something of a sensation. In restaurants and at parties, men flirted at me extravagantly…As a male friend once put it to me, semifacetiously,” she writes, ‘A little anorexia is hot.’
(She turned out to have a parasite; she wasn’t anorexic.)
1. Wouldn’t it get a little tiresome to get hit on all the time? Especially in New York, where thin women seem to be treated like social status symbols? Or have I been watching too much Sex and the City?
2. This is just the story of one woman, traveling in a very specific social milieu. I’m sure the women out there have some counterexamples, right ladies?
3. Even if most men find uber-thin women attractive, which I doubt, our self-worth shouldn’t be tied to the number of men who want to have sex with us.
Thanks to Nonk for posting this on our Facebook page!
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Feminism, Magazines, Media, Weight Loss
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Yup, really, I think this is unfair to men.
I’m married to another one who (going by his exes) doesn’t have a “type”. I’m not saying nobody has a type (I do myself) but I think… the whole business of attraction is too complex to pin down like that. There are men who fit into my type that I’m not attracted to.
It’s possible that if you look like what men are purported to desire, you might get more attention from men who want their friends to envy them… but that doesn’t sound much fun to me.
According to Evolution and Human Behavior:
The bigger the difference between a woman’s waist and hips, the more intelligent she is – and her children.
What? If that’s true, then I’m slower than average. Last I checked, there was no evidence of that – I’m at least of average intelligence.
Maybe there’s a very loose correlation or something, but like with gender differences in verbal skills, there would have to be a lot of overlap between the categories.
“What? If that’s true, then I’m slower than average. Last I checked, there was no evidence of that – I’m at least of average intelligence.”
Anecdotal data is not evidence.
I think that some men like really skinny women, and other men like more curvaceous women. My friend just told me the other day that his friend likes women who “have no hips” in his words, but that he likes women with a little more to them. On the other hand… it doesn’t really matter what men (or other women) like; we should be the size/weight at which we feel happy and healthy.
According to Evolution and Human Behavior:
The bigger the difference between a woman’s waist and hips, the more intelligent she is – and her children.
So, I’m less intelligent than I was at 18 years old (when my waist was smaller)? That’s ridiculous and extremely insulting. But hey, it’s scienterrific!
Ok, so I have encountered only one man in my entire life who was into excessively thin women. All of the other men I have dated or had the opportunity to talk about this with have been into women with a little softness to them/healthy bodies. And lest you think this only because I attract people into non-scrawny body types, I’ve actually been really skinny most of my life, and some of the men in question admitting to wanting me to gain weight because they said my appearance was a bit unsettling (it was due to a stress reaction, not eating-disorder related.)
To be honest I wouldn’t be surprised if the woman who wrote that is right, but I hate her for saying it and on top of that I think it’s really awful if anyone pays any real attention to it.
I’m dating a man who normally likes very slight women. Hell, I find thin women attractive myself. But there’s way more to it than liking a particular body type and even though my SO normally finds skinny girls hot, it’s obvious that it’s not a dealbreaker if his girl is fat, because I am (and then some).
I dunno. I feel like magazines have a responsibility NOT to print this stuff. People totally take the wrong thing away from that.
I’m one of those women that has ‘no hips’. It’s quite a turn off to be told by a man that I’m the first day he dated with a small butt. I know that my honey dated mostly ‘chubby’ girls before me. I’ve seen myself as ‘chubby’ even ‘obese’ until I was in my mid-twenties and guys started to hit on me.
It’s attitude more than weight that makes men at bars take notice. I’ve always been ‘slightly overweight’. I’ve been in the normal BMI, but only toward the higher end still fat in many people’s eyes.
If I were male I would it very insulting to lumped into a generic “man” category where I read what I thought in magazines. I know this because as a female I often am. I know when I lost weight via starvation, I got hit on alot more. I told my friend this and she looked at me and shrugged and said it’s probably because YOU felt like you looked good. Not to mention I dressed sexier. I’m going to go with Lillian. Confidence goes a long way.
Attraction is too complicated to chalk up to one attribute. I’m not going to hate on myself because I’m not a match for everyone, or even not a match for most.
I have met lots of men who are attracted to the cultural ideal, and I have been the “fat friend” at the bar or club who didn’t get as much attention as my friends.
However, I have also had many boyfriends, lovers and a husband who loved and were attracted to me. How many more guys need to want to bang me to prove my worth? What a ridiculous measuring stick!
I think there are many men out there who like women of all sizes, like my husband, but they aren’t the type to be celebrated in Elle or to be in the thick of the LA bar scene. Doesn’t mean they don’t exist. :)
Years back, Elle magazine published an anonymous article with the headline “Confessions of a Pretty Girl,” and…
Aw, who cares? Articles like this make me so happy to be a lesbian.
What’s the point of having men want to sleep with you if you’ve starved away your sex drive?
Counter-example: No matter my weight (5’3″ 220-345lbs) I have always received more attention when I rid my life of people who tear me down and take proper care of myself by getting enough sleep, fluids, food, physical activity, and FUN.
When I don’t have people tearing me down, I am less likely to tear myself down in ways I don’t notice and have an easier time meeting all of my needs. Also, when people see me hanging out with people who tear me down, it sends the message that I don’t respect myself enough to stand up for myself and tell them to leave me alone.
I’m wondering if weight is really the reason people find themselves getting more attention or if they just think it is because they are so focussed on it that they don’t even notice the other changes that attract people. Perhaps it’s merely a combination of both.
“fatfighter, on February 20th, 2008 at 2:09 pm Said:
I think ascribing a personal taste in thin women to being some sort of Oedipal complex or need for superiority is rather strange. Why can’t a man like thin women without it being some kind of personality disorder?”
Why can’t a man like fat women (or fat men) without it being some kind of personality disorder? Or without being questioned that it’s actually true? Referring to your first comment btw.
And Sarah, what exactly is it about a person’s weight/hip ratio that affects their intelligence? I could imagine a correlation between women with higher weight/hip ratios and higher intelligence (whatever definition they’re using to describe intelligence) where more women with high weight/hip ratio score higher on whatever intelligence test that is used in the study, but I can’t imagine that “the bigger the difference between a woman’s waist and hips, the more intelligent she is – and her children.” This is mostly due to the fact that many of the most intelligent women I’ve known in my life didn’t have high weight/hip ratios, but also because I can’t imagine that in every case, between a curvaceous and a not-curvaceous woman, the curvaceous woman would be more intelligent every time.
zenjen, I didn’t say liking a fat person was wrong, I just said in my experience most men DON’T. Everyone likes something different, sure, but most of the time I have noticed guys say one thing and do another, and what they do is talk up how they like meaty women while they turn around and date “conventionally attractive” women.
Sure, some guys grow up and date substantive women (heavy or slim), and some men have certain “types”. I was simply sharing my personal experiences of observing men. There’s certainly nothing wrong with anyone dating anyone who looks like anything as long as they are happy, in my opinion.
I was in New York just last September, all 300 give/take pounds of me. I spent considerable time walking around both Brooklyn and Manhattan, sometimes in the company of larger women, sometimes in the company of smaller women. We both got looks and lookbacks.
So this claim that “thin is in, NYC” is utter baloney.
Fatfighter, I know that you didn’t say that liking a fat person is wrong, but I have seen people treat those who admitted to liking fat people as if there was something wrong with them. That could be a reason why some men might decide to date the “conventionally attractive women” even after saying that they like women with a little more meat on them. It’s at least a bit understandable. Or those men don’t exclusively date fat women. Or their definition of what defines a “meaty woman” is skewed, or a number of other possible reasons.
Whatever our life experiences tells us about the dating habits of people, I think it’s wrong to generalize what we think other people are attracted to. It tends to lead to such thinking that people who are attracted to fat people have mental problems(which you didn’t write, but I wanted to bring that out) or thinking that people, in this case men, are automatically lying if they say that they like fat people, which is what I sensed from your first post.
So when I was 300+ pounds, I didn’t get much positive attention from men. As my weight dropped, it was there and wow, I had no clue what to do with it. Then my weight dropped below some invisible bar. At one point, I was 5’8 and 119 pounds. And you know what?
Guys started calling me names. Like chickenbones. One put his arm around my waist and mockingly counted my ribs. On more than one occasion, I was told (sometimes by men I didn’t know) to go eat a burger.
My weight rebounded mostly naturally and slightly with effort. I gained 15 pounds and while I personally have difficulty with it for the reasons so many people above write about…social stigma and expectations…I now am told that I look better, healthier, better looking.
So Elle can kiss my sagging ass. I don’t think I ever felt so self conscious around men as I did when I was too thin. And the funny thing is that so many think it’s perfectly acceptable to throw a snark your way when it’s about you being too skinny…most would ***NEVER*** say things like “you’re too fat” or “put down that burger”.
zenjen, I’m pretty much horrible at getting ideas across online so bear with me :) That’s basically what I meant when I say, I watch what they do. I don’t have time to examine the societal pressures that prevent men from dating what they really like, I was just pointing out what I notice they DO. I personally wouldn’t date a guy that wouldn’t date someone he wanted to date because of what (insert anyone here) would think.
On the flip side, I don’t agree with some people’s assertions that “real” men only date heavier women, or men who date thin women have power issues. Everyone should be able to love whomever they want, the world be darned, imo. Alas, some men aren’t strong enough to do that.
I know I’m late, but here’s my 2 cents: I get hit on. A lot. I’m a fat girl, and I have fat legs. I wear skirts a lot, and I strut my stuff. It has everything to do with confidence, and nothing to do with weight. The more confident and cute I look, the more men (of ALL backgrounds) hit on me. I found that I got hit on/stared at left and right when walking down through the financial district (I work in SF) with my hair in a ‘fro and a cute red skirt with heeled boots. The suit and tie guys looked as much as the construction worker guys. (they just weren’t rude enough to whistle) I also get hit on by the guys in my office. I’m not trying to blow my own horn (well, maybe a little) BUT I want to decisively trample all over this stone-age article/idea about men preferring skinny/anorexic/(insert adjective here) women. Most men? They like women. (Straight men, that is) =P
New York standards are ridiculous. I have a friend who is 5 foot 6, 135lbs and gets told she is too fat in NY. Move to Philly or Houston…she would be a goddess. lol
Jesus H. Christ. I could write a book on how differently men treat me as a size 8 than they did as a size 22. (A stylish 22, mind you!) The way they look at you, listen, (or pretend to), laugh at your eccentricities… all different. The kicker is that these are the same men who would see me around campus when I was fat, who knew me at leat by sight, who treat me differently and go out of thier way to say cute shit now. All very interesting. ANd all to no avail, as I am a lesbian.
– And lesbian women are no better than men in thier preference for thinner girls.–
I could only imagine how male approval increases for the truly thin. Am currently reading the article.
[i]I think that our whole culture is geared towards women hating themselves NO MATTER what their size. It’s Hate At Every Size, if you will.
You’re never thin enough, until you’re too thin. If you’re thin, your breasts aren’t big enough. If your breasts are big and you’re thin, then obviously your breasts are fakes and you cheated your way into that body.[/i]
That’s what I’ve been thinking about this week… I (size 22-24) recently introduced a friend (size 14-16) to FA, and she said it kind of sounded like ‘giving up’ to her, because saying ‘fine, I’m just the way I am’ as a fat person is easier than losing weight. I disagree, exactly because hating yourself – as a woman – no matter what your size is so ingrained in our culture.
Anyway, my question to fellow fat girls would be: how exactly do you know a guy is hitting on you? This may sound like an incredibly dim-witted question, but I never got hit on a lot when I was a size 12-14 (my ‘skinny time’ ;)) and I certainly don’t think I get hit on at all now. When a guy does pay attention to me, I tend to think he’s mocking me… It’s not that I haven’t been with men, because I have, but I’ve always made the first move (something I wouldn’t dare do anymore).
Oh, ew.
I think you hit the nail on the head with “status symbol”, though. I don’t think for one second that male desires are independent of the enormous amount of media that directs and trains the male gaze towards “appropriate” objects. In fact, I get the general impression (from real-life friends, even) that some men feel shamed when they’re skinnier than their girlfriends, and, coming from a region with lots of poor people, that’s a class thing. Men who eat foodstamp food get skinny, women who eat it get fat, it’s some sort of strange pasta-based chemistry.
There’s also the strange gendered power dynamic that our culture heaps on sexual expression – I think being physically larger / stronger than their female sex partner is one of those cultural expectations that guys find it really hard to shake.
“I have a friend who is 5 foot 6, 135lbs and gets told she is too fat in NY. ”
Megan, who is telling this poor girl this?
Is she getting it from guys? Or girl “frenemies”?
Even after reading all of these wonderful, varied responses, this article still made me feel a little sick to my stomach. Mostly, because I’m recovering from anorexia, and when I was at my thinnest, I /was/ noticed. I was hit on. Men were nicer to me, cutesier towards me [which can be a bad thing as well] and treated me like I was this… eensy treasure. I was stared at on buses, flirted with in checkout lines… People in general were nicer- not just men. Old women smiled and called me honey, passing strangers would ask if I needed help with my groceries.
I know for a FACT, simply because I have FAITH in the male persuasion, that this is not a worldwide phenomenon. I was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and had my mind spun. I’m engaged to a wonderful man who’s been with me through fat, thin, fat, fatter, thin and fat, and has never wavered.
Why am I posting about the ‘truth’ of this article based on my own experience. then? Because this feels really really horrible when you’re one of the few mentally bruised individuals struggling with an ED who DID experience a rise in interest. This article shook me up- it scared me, honestly, made my stomach churn. It’s horrible, triggering, and if I saw it anywhere but this website, I’d be crafting a food journal right now, and planning a full day of veggie broth and crackers.
I have no problem with men and women finding thinness appealing as long as there are people who find the opposite to be attractive. I agree that having a thin woman as a partner in today’s society is a class distinction. For all men, be they rich or poor, having a skinny woman on their arm is regarded as the ultimate achievement. I don’t think there are as many issues with taking a larger woman to bed as there are with dating one. I had a “friends with benefits” relationship with a man many years ago who fell in love with me but would not start seeing me exclusively due to his shame of being with a larger woman. Consequently, I moved on and got married. We have managed to stay good friends and every once in a while, he says that the biggest mistake he ever made was letting me go. He just couldn’t bring himself to be with me because of the way others would view him. It makes me sad how many men are missing out on the possibility of love because they are so ashamed to be with a bigger woman. Beauty really does come in all shapes, sizes, colors, classes, etc. and though I think many people understand this, they cannot reconcile how they feel with how they’re percieved by others.
I was on my way to work this morning on the train, and I overheard these two young men talking about this woman, the first saying how hot she was. The second guy turned toward him and said “But she’s so skinny! I’d be afraid to snap her if I was on top. I personally, like a girl with meat on her”. It was just so refreshing to hear this from a mans mouth, that wasn’t just being said to make a magazine happy, or a “survey”. It was believable, and just proves that not all men find the ‘skin and bones’ look sexy.
From what I’ve observed it’s unfortunately true, though. While many guys claim the contrary, the women most of them seem to like the most are the ones who fit more with the media’s ‘ideal’: white (or close to it), taller than ‘average’, larger, fake breasts, tanned skin, longer, lighter hair, lighter eyes, skinny or at least really thin, fuller ‘pornstar’ lips and a small butt that somehow looks big and round.