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	<title>Comments on: Well Said</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/</link>
	<description>We&#039;re bringing chubby back.</description>
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		<title>By: Fat Girl</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8215</link>
		<dc:creator>Fat Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 02:07:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8215</guid>
		<description>And that right there is pretty much the entirety of what bugs me about thin vs. fat thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And that right there is pretty much the entirety of what bugs me about thin vs. fat thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Sea Hag</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8214</link>
		<dc:creator>Sea Hag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 19:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8214</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve actually experienced this first hand. Years ago I had a part-time job driving around the beverage cart at a golf course. There was a girl who I worked with who would show up late and so hungover that she couldn&#039;t handle driving a golf cart for a few hours a day. (By the way, we were about 19 at the time... and imagine how messed up you&#039;d have to be to not be able to operate a golf cart). So I would pick up her shift on top of mine when she did this.

I wound up getting fired because someone had complained about me. While this may be true (spending 8 hours on a bumpy golf cart around grabby, drunk, white, rich old guys is bound to make you cranky) I also know that that Lady Hangover still had her job after I left. And I also know that she was about 50 pounds smaller than I was and pretty and she lived on the golf course with her rich parents.

This was a shitty job and I wasn&#039;t too sad, but I certainly taught me that the wealthy and pretty had a free pass in a lot of situations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve actually experienced this first hand. Years ago I had a part-time job driving around the beverage cart at a golf course. There was a girl who I worked with who would show up late and so hungover that she couldn&#8217;t handle driving a golf cart for a few hours a day. (By the way, we were about 19 at the time&#8230; and imagine how messed up you&#8217;d have to be to not be able to operate a golf cart). So I would pick up her shift on top of mine when she did this.</p>
<p>I wound up getting fired because someone had complained about me. While this may be true (spending 8 hours on a bumpy golf cart around grabby, drunk, white, rich old guys is bound to make you cranky) I also know that that Lady Hangover still had her job after I left. And I also know that she was about 50 pounds smaller than I was and pretty and she lived on the golf course with her rich parents.</p>
<p>This was a shitty job and I wasn&#8217;t too sad, but I certainly taught me that the wealthy and pretty had a free pass in a lot of situations.</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8213</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:45:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8213</guid>
		<description>both hands, I meant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>both hands, I meant.</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8203</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 18:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8203</guid>
		<description>Kate Moss couldn&#039;t snort enough coke in the 80s, and she still got &quot;promoted.&quot; And paid lots of money to strut around glowing.

I think snorting coke is pretty well documented to be bad for you.

Maybe time is the great equalizer. Maybe, when Kate Moss has an age related illness people will cluck at her &quot;well, dearie, you should have put down the cocaine! Pushed yourself away from the dusty coffee table!&quot;

I somehow doubt it. I&#039;d bet both hand Kate Moss&#039; obituary will be dram-rama-SUPERMODEL-GORGEOUS!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kate Moss couldn&#8217;t snort enough coke in the 80s, and she still got &#8220;promoted.&#8221; And paid lots of money to strut around glowing.</p>
<p>I think snorting coke is pretty well documented to be bad for you.</p>
<p>Maybe time is the great equalizer. Maybe, when Kate Moss has an age related illness people will cluck at her &#8220;well, dearie, you should have put down the cocaine! Pushed yourself away from the dusty coffee table!&#8221;</p>
<p>I somehow doubt it. I&#8217;d bet both hand Kate Moss&#8217; obituary will be dram-rama-SUPERMODEL-GORGEOUS!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: pennylane</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8212</link>
		<dc:creator>pennylane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8212</guid>
		<description>I was thinking the case was overstated as well but I think you&#039;re definitely right, littlem that there are degrees of deviation from a norm that make some bodies public property while others have the privilege of invisible bodies.  It would be hard to not see, for example, that women&#039;s bodies are scrutinized more than men&#039;s.  Or that pregnant women get all manner of uninvited scrutiny.  Or I have an autoimmune disorder which many of my coworkers have suggested (in spite of pretty good evidence it&#039;s a genetic disorder) is caused by either 1) my veganism 2) my fat or 3) some diabolical combination.

Meowser is definitely dead-on in saying that fat people are judged by their physical bodies and assumed to be doing something wrong and their fat is assumed to be a burden on others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking the case was overstated as well but I think you&#8217;re definitely right, littlem that there are degrees of deviation from a norm that make some bodies public property while others have the privilege of invisible bodies.  It would be hard to not see, for example, that women&#8217;s bodies are scrutinized more than men&#8217;s.  Or that pregnant women get all manner of uninvited scrutiny.  Or I have an autoimmune disorder which many of my coworkers have suggested (in spite of pretty good evidence it&#8217;s a genetic disorder) is caused by either 1) my veganism 2) my fat or 3) some diabolical combination.</p>
<p>Meowser is definitely dead-on in saying that fat people are judged by their physical bodies and assumed to be doing something wrong and their fat is assumed to be a burden on others.</p>
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		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8204</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8204</guid>
		<description>Yup. People CAN show up for work hungover and not get fired... or phone in sick repeatedly on a Monday, not make much of a secret of it that it&#039;s because they&#039;re hungover, and not get fired.

A colleague of mine used to do it and may do it still (I don&#039;t work there any more). It used to drive me slightly crazy. I did rather wonder at the time if there&#039;d have been more of a reaction to a woman doing this, rather than a young man, but I was never tempted to test the hypothesis...

On the whole, though, I think it&#039;s down to workplace culture. I&#039;ve never worked anywhere else where that happened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yup. People CAN show up for work hungover and not get fired&#8230; or phone in sick repeatedly on a Monday, not make much of a secret of it that it&#8217;s because they&#8217;re hungover, and not get fired.</p>
<p>A colleague of mine used to do it and may do it still (I don&#8217;t work there any more). It used to drive me slightly crazy. I did rather wonder at the time if there&#8217;d have been more of a reaction to a woman doing this, rather than a young man, but I was never tempted to test the hypothesis&#8230;</p>
<p>On the whole, though, I think it&#8217;s down to workplace culture. I&#8217;ve never worked anywhere else where that happened.</p>
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		<title>By: superblondgirl</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8211</link>
		<dc:creator>superblondgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:23:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8211</guid>
		<description>Another awesome manifesto - that&#039;s so 100% true.  People absolutely feel that it&#039;s okay to judge people for being fat, no matter how healhty our lifestyle choices are, and the thin unhealthy people are never given any crap about what they do.  I sit here and eat my orange and my salad and my low-fat cereal and watch the skinny people snarf up brownies and know that there&#039;s no fucking justice in this world....
Fat people and smokers, the two groups it&#039;s still okay to discriminate against.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another awesome manifesto &#8211; that&#8217;s so 100% true.  People absolutely feel that it&#8217;s okay to judge people for being fat, no matter how healhty our lifestyle choices are, and the thin unhealthy people are never given any crap about what they do.  I sit here and eat my orange and my salad and my low-fat cereal and watch the skinny people snarf up brownies and know that there&#8217;s no fucking justice in this world&#8230;.<br />
Fat people and smokers, the two groups it&#8217;s still okay to discriminate against.</p>
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		<title>By: littlem</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8210</link>
		<dc:creator>littlem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:45:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8210</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;But I still don’t think it’s accurate to say that “thin people are given a pass for their vices and peccadillos because they make the world a prettier place.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

HA!

Clearly you&#039;ve never worked in the entertainment industry.

I do believe -- having lived it --  that you&#039;re correct in your assessment that &quot;just because you lose weight, your world won&#039;t change&quot;; however, that does NOT mean that conventionally pretty people are not privileged in their conduct FAR beyond what&#039;s &quot;permissible&quot; for those visibly outside that norm.

(Britney Spears, anyone?  Amy Winehouse?)

And the further outside that norm you are, the more severely you&#039;re punished in this society, particularly for &quot;deviant behavior&quot; that people who cleave more closely to the norm can do and get away with.

And if you don&#039;t believe that people can show up to work hungover -- or high, for that matter -- and not get fired, you should take a tour of some big city law and accounting firms, those bastions of conservatism and maintenance of the status quo.

Because the status quo in America IS that the more you cleave to the white patriarchal approved norm, the more you can get away with.

If you remain unconvinced, Google &quot;white privilege&quot;,  &quot;male privilege&quot;, and Paul Campos&#039; central thesis -- then get back to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;But I still don’t think it’s accurate to say that “thin people are given a pass for their vices and peccadillos because they make the world a prettier place.&#8221;</i></p>
<p>HA!</p>
<p>Clearly you&#8217;ve never worked in the entertainment industry.</p>
<p>I do believe &#8212; having lived it &#8212;  that you&#8217;re correct in your assessment that &#8220;just because you lose weight, your world won&#8217;t change&#8221;; however, that does NOT mean that conventionally pretty people are not privileged in their conduct FAR beyond what&#8217;s &#8220;permissible&#8221; for those visibly outside that norm.</p>
<p>(Britney Spears, anyone?  Amy Winehouse?)</p>
<p>And the further outside that norm you are, the more severely you&#8217;re punished in this society, particularly for &#8220;deviant behavior&#8221; that people who cleave more closely to the norm can do and get away with.</p>
<p>And if you don&#8217;t believe that people can show up to work hungover &#8212; or high, for that matter &#8212; and not get fired, you should take a tour of some big city law and accounting firms, those bastions of conservatism and maintenance of the status quo.</p>
<p>Because the status quo in America IS that the more you cleave to the white patriarchal approved norm, the more you can get away with.</p>
<p>If you remain unconvinced, Google &#8220;white privilege&#8221;,  &#8220;male privilege&#8221;, and Paul Campos&#8217; central thesis &#8212; then get back to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Arlene</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8209</link>
		<dc:creator>Arlene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 08:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8209</guid>
		<description>Well...yes, okay, it&#039;s probably true that if two people--one fat and one thin--continually showed up to work hungover, and everybody in the office knew, but they both still managed to do their jobs well, then yes, it is more likely that the thin person would be promoted over the fat person everything else being equal. And no, that&#039;s not fair, and yes, it is infuriating.

But I still don&#039;t think it&#039;s accurate to say that &quot;thin people are given a pass for their vices and peccadillos because they make the world a prettier place.&quot; There are plenty of thin people with drug vices, alcohol vices, gambling vices, sexual vices, etc. who have to face the consequences for their actions. There are plenty of thin people who get fired for showing up to work on drugs or drunk, who get their houses foreclosed because they overspent themselves into backruptcy, who get disowned by their families and friends and shunned by society for their sexual tastes and preferences. And to imply that they get a free pass simply because they are not overweight is ridiculous, frankly. And to imply that the world will go any easier on someone who&#039;s facing serious debt, or being fired for drug or alcohol abuse, etc. if they just lost 50 or 75 or 100 pounds is plain wrong, in my experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well&#8230;yes, okay, it&#8217;s probably true that if two people&#8211;one fat and one thin&#8211;continually showed up to work hungover, and everybody in the office knew, but they both still managed to do their jobs well, then yes, it is more likely that the thin person would be promoted over the fat person everything else being equal. And no, that&#8217;s not fair, and yes, it is infuriating.</p>
<p>But I still don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s accurate to say that &#8220;thin people are given a pass for their vices and peccadillos because they make the world a prettier place.&#8221; There are plenty of thin people with drug vices, alcohol vices, gambling vices, sexual vices, etc. who have to face the consequences for their actions. There are plenty of thin people who get fired for showing up to work on drugs or drunk, who get their houses foreclosed because they overspent themselves into backruptcy, who get disowned by their families and friends and shunned by society for their sexual tastes and preferences. And to imply that they get a free pass simply because they are not overweight is ridiculous, frankly. And to imply that the world will go any easier on someone who&#8217;s facing serious debt, or being fired for drug or alcohol abuse, etc. if they just lost 50 or 75 or 100 pounds is plain wrong, in my experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Meowser</title>
		<link>http://www.bfdblog.com/2008/01/27/well-said/comment-page-1/#comment-8208</link>
		<dc:creator>Meowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 04:27:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bfdblog.com/?p=328#comment-8208</guid>
		<description>Lots of people show up to work hung over and are still &quot;productive,&quot; Arlene.  Those people don&#039;t get fired, they get promoted, as long as they have the &quot;right image.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lots of people show up to work hung over and are still &#8220;productive,&#8221; Arlene.  Those people don&#8217;t get fired, they get promoted, as long as they have the &#8220;right image.&#8221;</p>
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