Thank You, New York Times…
…for featuring this blog in today’s Science Times section. I haven’t even had a chance to sit down and read the article, because I’ve been so busy at my actual job. But it’s been fun to get a huge spike in hits, many emails letting me know that people saw the article, and even some comments that validate the entire existence of blogs like this, such as:
Do you all really think that by discussing your fat-asses in a blog like this that the rest of the world will still not point and laugh, or loose their appetite upon seeing you in public. Personally, I think if blogging will keep you all at home and out of the public eye GREAT!
One would think a New York Times reader would be more erudite; I’m sure all the other NYT readers are!
Big Fat Deal is a body positive blog that is sort of a gateway drug to the fat acceptance movement. I hope you’ll stick around, poke through the archives, and find out what we’re all about.
As soon as I get a spare moment to read the article and the other fatosphere responses to the New York Times piece, I will. In the meantime, welcome!
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Advocacy, Fat Positive, Media, Meta
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Just so you know, the article isn’t very sympathetic to your blog or the “fat acceptance movement.” It portrays the movement as taking a logical argument (“Media and society make unrealistic demands of body composition that aren’t accurate as to what is truly healthy”) to its illogical extreme (“Therefore, it is ok to be morbidly obese and to have no self-control about what I eat.”)
You don’t have to have a body-fat percentage in the single digits to be healthy, and no health professional would ever argue that. It doesn’t change the fact that every thing we know currently about human physiology points to lifestyle as the singe most deterministic factor in the vast majority of obesity cases.
I thought it was a swell article, but of course, I DON’T KNOW JACK.
Congrats, you guys!!!!
No, jack, I believe YOU are automatically assuming an illogical extreme.
As to the commenter you mention, Mo. If someone told me that the sight of me ruined their appetite, I would laugh in their face, hysterically. The idea that fat people ruin appetites sounds a bit pro-ana if you ask me.
congratulations on that..
Dng, ding, ding – and we have an off-the-mark award winner!
Wow, Jack. Way to completely and totally miss the point there!
Swooooosh.
That was the point whipping by Jack’s head.
Congrats on the article mention!
The comment you quoted said “loose their appetites.” Is this suggesting that people will get so excited upon seeing a fat body in public that they will no longer restrict appetites? I suspect the commentator meant “lose”. But loose is much more fun. I’m gonna go loose my appetite on some lunch.
Also, thank goodness there are people like Jack to let us know things. Just so we know, because, we fat folks is slow, and need some folks to tell us things.
I love reading comments from idiots who can’t spell. Makes me feel even better about being literally fat n’ sassy.
I also love reading comments from people who start off their sentences with, “Just so you know…” Because I love being treated as if I’m a moron who is incapable of reading words formed into complete sentences.
Thanks, Jack. You’re a peach.
Excuse me while I go scarf down a box full of Krispy Kremes. Because that’s what we fat gals do all the time.
I love the idea of BFD as a gateway drug to FA! *laugh*
The article really turned out great, I think. It’s exciting to be a part of it.
There will be a day when criticism of fat people and the educational outreach toward children about fat will be along the lines how we treat smoking and skokers today. This blog represents the time 10 to 20 years ago when my friends would say “my mom/dad has smoked for 30 years and she’s fine.” Now they’re not! Time will teach here too folks–just be ready to face even more social backlash that smokers do today. Not only because smoking and obesity are socially disgusting, but both are a huge strain on our healthcare sytem. Good luck!
I just returned from a visit with my father. He is six feet tall and weighs around 180. He’s never had a heart attack. He’s always eaten moderately in terms of portions, and has eaten healthfully for all of my life. He had high blood pressure, high cholesterol in spite of his diet and very active lifestyle.
He just had open heart surgery. They did SIX by-passes.
My mother is about 75 pounds overweight. She has never been in the hospital outside of pregnancy & hysterectomy. She has low blood pressure and low cholesterol. She eats high salt, high fat food.
Dad: 65 years old.
Mom: 64 years old.
Seems like my dad, the skinny one with the perfect habits, has cost the healthcare system a LOT more than my mom.
I’m a size 18, fat, and there’s nothing nice about it. My breasts are so large I can’t buy a bra for less than $200, custom made. I am now getting breast cysts and skin breakdown, caused by the weight. My hips hurt, my knees can barely hold the weight, I’ve injured my ankles from foot pronation (the weight). I can’t afford orthotics, which I wouldn’t need if I wasn’t so fat. I am out of breath, have difficulty looking after myself and even getting dressed and for quite a while now, have serious disc problems made worse (if not originating) from being fat. All that fat produces estrogen, and I have had some close call surgury to deal with that. Clothes in my size and budget are horrible looking, cheap and fall apart very soon. If I slip and fall, I can’t get up without help. Real proud of myself.
I notice there are no 58 year old women telling you how great it is to be fat. That’s because it isn’t.
After reading an article like this on the New York times, I just had to comment. My entire family is fat aunts, uncles, cousins, my grandfather died of a heartattack and my father just recently had quadruple by-pass surgery. Both brought on by obesity. Over the past 3 years I have struggled to maintain a decent weight and through portion control and excercise, I have lost 70 pounds. My father has lost over 120 and is still going. Both my father and I prove that if you want it bad enough genetics does not have to be the final word.
Poor Jack. He thought this was an idiot-acceptance blog.
I know a few 58 year old women who are fat and healthy. They might not be totally happy with the way they look, and if they want to change that, then fine.
You can actually be fat and healthy.
And being thin does not mean you won’t get cancer, diabetes and heart disease.
Congrads on the NYTimes article…great feat for you. Too bad people are so idiotic and ridiculous.
You know makes me want to say those folks get on a blog and rant and rave so I don’t have to deal with them in real life!
CAnn, I’m a size 18, too. I also bike regularly, hike, and do yoga. I’m fortunate to be able to afford well-made, nice-looking clothes, though I have been known to shop at Chez Target boutique for things I think I’ll get tired of quickly. The only “custom” duds I have are a pair of really sexy knee high boots, which I had to buy from Duo because I have meaty calves. Which I also had at a size 12.
Your comments seem to indicate more about your overall state of health and fitness than anything else. I’m sorry you hate your body. That doesn’t mean we have to hate ours.
As for you, Overcome Genetics, I’d like you to know that my size 18 grandmother lived to be 97.5 years old. If that’s the sort of genetic legacy I’ve got to look forward to, I’m not going to try to overcome it. Not in the least. Now be a nice person and go play on the highway.
Poor Jack. He thought this was an idiot-acceptance blog.
Bwahahahahaha!
“Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.’’
Michael Pollan
I would not be surprised if some of those comments were paid spammers by BigDiet-Pharma (BARFMA.) There is such a thing as guerilla marketing, where folks are paid to post opinions in chat rooms. Weight obsession is one way billions of dollars get channeled from the middle class to the true “fat cats” and that can not stop. Especially in times of recession.
BTW, I am size 18 too and walk everywhere. I live on the 4th floor of a walk up and don’t have a single problem flying up the stairs. Not only that, but my plumpness helps me stay pretty, I STILL get flirted with at 47!
Height = 5″7″ Weight= 220 Respect for those who want me to diminish = 0%!!!!!!!!!!!!
“There will be a day when criticism of fat people and the educational outreach toward children about fat will be along the lines how we treat smoking and skokers today.”
I hope it’s viewed the same way for anorexia, too, then. I ‘loose’ my appetite seeing Lara Flynn Boyle.
Hey, CAnn? I am also a size 18 and I walk everywhere. My friends always complain about walking with me because I am too fast lol ! I have awesome clothes ( and I’m a poor college student). I have huge boobs and I can easily find tons of bras for less than 200 dollars ( BTW if your breasts are that big, fat is NOT to blame!). So just because you are unhealthy, it doesn’t mean that all fat people are.
CAnn, however you might feel about the fat acceptance movement, the members of that movement are fighting for your access to healthcare and to be treated with dignity.
CAnn, I’m in my fifties, a size 28, and very generously endowed in the boobage department. I can’t claim personal credit for my knees that (mostly) work or my relative lack of physical limitations. It’s the roll of the genetic dice.
Everyone’s body is different. Some people have a lot of physical challenges at a relatively small size. Others cope well with a larger size.
Ironically, breast size is almost entirely genetic. Some women can gain an enormous amount of weight and still have very small breasts.
Overcome genetics, most likely you and your father have a genetic makeup that *allows* you to lose a lot of weight. Many people don’t.
CAnn, I had a breast reduction more than five years ago. I got it as soon as I was eligible with insurance. Gettin’ the girls worked on helped tremendously with a number of my health problems.
I was one of those esspensive-brassiere buyers, too.
CAnn,: “Clothes in my size and budget are horrible looking, cheap and fall apart very soon.”
Where are you buying clothes? I buy clothes (same size) that aren’t expensive, sure, but they look great and last a long time (usually going out of style before they fall apart).
You can get great clothes (lingerie included) for not a lot of dough from online retailers, if the only shops in your area sell sub-quality clothing in plus sizes. Having some great clothing that makes you look good can make you feel good and help to enhance positive body image. Hope you have luck finding good-quality clothing :)
Replies focus on looks and being flirted with; a juvenile attitude about about body shown by calling breasts ‘girls’. Fat is unhealthy. Period. I could ride a bike and climb stairs 20 years ago too.
As for cancer; you missed the point that the cancers I was speaking about are caused by estrogen, made and retained in fat.
No amount of rationalizing our food addiction will make us healthy. But maybe, just maybe, recognizing we are addicts and doing something about it will.
[M]ost likely you and your father have a genetic makeup that *allows* you to lose a lot of weight. Many people don’t.
All I can say to that is um…yeah.
As for my actual opinion or an honest response, forget it. You guys are too quick to fling an eyeroll and a “pffft! what-evaah” at anyone who doesn’t tell you it’s ok to be fat.
Anyway, congrats on being mentioned in NYT, that’s awesome.
CAnn, I’m sort of interested in what exactly your point is. That YOU have a bad experience in your body and thus the rest of us will too? That feeling bad about our bodies will make us…healthier?
But there’s an overall problem here in that people come in and drop their individual stories as if they are universal truths (as some people have pointed out your body is unique–I’m a size 16 with B cups–so your problems with your breasts sound much more like body type and genetics than weight per se). The plural of anecdote is not data. I could tell you about my grandmother who was a physically active overweight woman who lived to be 100 and was mobile well into her late 90s (until she broke her hip after starting to lose a lot of weight). Some people have lost weight; that does not mean all people can lose weight. Some people who are fat have health problems; some people who are thin have health problems. The point of fat acceptance is not that everyone should be fat but that everyone is human and deserves to be treated as such. And yeah, fat is ok. Because my body is, frankly, none of your business.
@fatfighter:
“As for my actual opinion or an honest response, forget it. You guys are too quick to fling an eyeroll and a “pffft! what-evaah” at anyone who doesn’t tell you it’s ok to be fat.”
Maybe all of us are quick to respond that way because we hear it all day, every day from the media, people on the streets, commenters on blogs, our own heads, etc. We KNOW we are fat. It is just that we are starting to refuse to see this as a tragedy.
I am new to all of this (never commented on this blog, but have been reading for a few weeks) but I know that I’m not alone in having been told all of my life that I was fat. AND that Fat isn’t okay. Frankly, it is not something I need to hear anymore. I got it the first few hundred times.
I was born 10 pounds, 6 oz. I was immediately classified as overweight. I’ve never been anything other than overweight, despite attempting to diet all of my life. I was on the swim team as a child, and still overweight. My dad was also overweight, my mom was not until later life. She was the one who told me “I’d be so pretty if…” and the if was followed by several desires for improvement–and the big one there was always the weight. I was also supposed to stand up straight, stop being so shy, and stop breathing through my mouth (my mom also breathes through her mouth–it’s a nose issue and I inherited it).
I learned early on that I was “less than”–I would be pretty, popular, desirable and successful, if only I’d just get my act together and improve myself. And it was supposed to be easy–just less food and more exercise. And I tried, boy did I try.
Never worked. And I hated myself for it.
Now I find a small place on the internet where I can go and get great, well-written, witty, clever writing from people who understand where I am coming from and will support me in my desire to live life as I am–not to wait and live life as the perfect me that I will become when the latest diet finally works and I become the thin me that has been waiting to come out of my fat prison all of these years. I have two centers of support: a wonderful husband and a group of web sites. The rest of the world wants me to lose weight before it will respect me. This “Fatosphere” says I don’t need to be ashamed of being overweight and I deserve respect now. I don’t think that is a terrible thing to be saying.
I have found a place where I can feel self confident and validated–and no one feels bad that I’m a size 18/20 (or a 22-24 if the shop is different in sizing). All anyone cares here is that I treat others with the same respect that I came here to be treated with–the same respect that too many of us don’t get out there on the streets.
So, yeah, we roll our eyes and brush you off when you come here and say, “but you’re fat, and you should lose weight”. We’ve heard it before. Many times. Give us this space to think about living life and enjoying it, please!
Kim (forgive the long comment, but I’m feeling a lot of passion about this right now.)
My point is there is a small window of relatively looking good and being able and disease free, and then the rest of your life struggling with disease and injury BECAUSE of being fat. It’s like any addiction, it seems like you’re doing ok for awhile, then it does it’s damage.
Just as putting an article about a fat in science doesn’t make it science, all the rationalizing about my body fat won’t make it healthy. Sure we should love ourselves, for many reasons. Fat isn’t one of them. I see all kinds of rationalizing here. Go ahead be proud of yourselves and be fat if you are comfortable with it, just don’t pretend it’s healthy. Yes we all have to die of something, the problem we are discussing is living with the disease and harm being fat does us.
As for fat being your own personal issue and anyone else should be quiet I disagree. Fat people are wilfully disabled, just as the addict hooked on heroin. They are ill now because of their addiction. That’s what is going to happen to you. It has to me, and every fat person I know. Health means more than being able to struggle from your chair to your front yard and back, so I really doubt someone who is 300 lbs is healthy.
Not long ago I saw a woman who might be about 500 lbs. I could even say 600. She was dressed beautifully. But the smell that surrounded here was unbelievable. So in that elevator with her, it was my business. Her smell was not from anything but being fat. That same woman deserves to be proud of her accomplishments whatever they might be, but her addiction is killing her, and I don’t think she should be praised for it or told to be proud of it.
And I am not, for me. That’s just rational. What you are doing here many of you is just so much mind games. If you call put it in the science pages that makes it science. If you praise each other over your addiction, that makes it a positive thing.
I disagree. I’m living it, and I’m not going to con myself as I see going on here.
Hmmm. If a troll says that they are fat and ergo sort of “one of us”, does it make their trollishness okay?
Also, fat does not produce estrogen. It does store it, but it doesn’t make it. And I am going to be guilty of an anecdote moment, but there you go. I work in a profession where I am very close to people for protracted periods of time, sometimes hours, while they are under stress. I see up to fifteen clients on a busy day, in a wide assortment of body sizes. I have noticed no correlation between larger size and more smell.
If your story about your health problems are true, I feel very sorry for you, but you will excuse me as I mention that you sound like a fabrication due to inconsistencies in the issues you mention in comparison to the size you claim.
I’m almost 40 and my doctor says I’m perfectly healthy. I don’t stink. The woman who smelled may have health issues that affect her smell. Or she may have just eaten a burrito. I know thin people who smell, for many reasons; I had a good friend who was very thin but also always smelled strongly like rotten peanut oil. It was a skin thing that she couldn’t control and had nothing to do with weight. I’m not sure what your point is, CAnn.
I know many older people who are heavy, to differing degrees, and they are no more or less healthy than the skinnier friends I have.
I do feel better when I am taking regular walks and generally getting some exercise and have felt my health affected by bad habits (brought on by grad school–an experience designed to eat away at any self esteem, especially for an older student–and which tends to lead to lots of sitting and late night eating). However, when I do go back to walking and exercising I feel better. I don’t, however, lose weight, at least not much nor do I keep it off. My health/general sense of well-being seems dependent on my behaviors (getting some exercise) and genetics (inheriting some minor arthritis in the hands) and not so much my weight.
I see that you are very bitter about your health and weight and you believe that we are doing ourselves harm. I understand that, really.
I am 275 right now, and have been up to 286 and down to 160-180 (in my teens for about a year) and I do a lot more than struggle from my chair, as do many, many people here in the fatosphere. Read a bit more and you will see many people who are labeled as obese who are healthy, active and happy. You will also find people who are less active. And you will find people with health issues. We are people and we differ. We come here to talk about issues of respect. I don’t think we are deluding ourselves. I doubt any of us will change your mind, so I guess we’ll just have to agree to differ on this. I wish you the best with your health.
CAnn,
Part of what makes this whole issue so touchy is the cultural assumption — one with which you agree — that obesity is a disease.
There actually isn’t universal agreement in the medical community that obesity is a pathology. I think there is reasonable evidence to suggest that there are health risks associated with being morbidly obese.
But the cultural definition of obesity appears to me to start at 25 to 30 pounds over an ideal weight. And that ideal weight — in the culture’s eyes — MIGHT actually be underweight.
I’m definitely overweight. And I have struggled with compulsive overeating. But I don’t think my doctor or my insurance company would classify me as having a disease. I don’t either.
I think part of what this blog does is to offer a rebuttal to the idea that all overweight people be prescribed the same fate and the same medical advice as a 500 pound person.
And one more thing: Even thin people lose some mobility as they age.
CAnn, honestly it sounds like you are invested in Fat as the cause of all your ills, because it gives you hope that all you have to do is find the magic bullet, right diet, secret stash of willpower to FIX EVERYTHING ™!!!! Because it’s all the fault of the Fat, right?
Except it doesn’t work that way. Fat doesn’t cause cancer, at least not so far as any reputable study I’ve ever seen. And you will still be the same person in your head thin that you are fat. And that’s why the seductive message of the Diet Industry is so damaging. Because it convinces people that all they have to do is lose weight to be PERFECT, and then they lose the weight and they’re still the same neurotic mess they were when they were Fat, only now, what are you going to blame it on?
C’Ann, would it blow your mind if I suggested that not every fat person has an addiction to food? Because it’s the truth. I mean no disrespect if you feel you do have an addiction, but again, please don’t assume that your experience is universal for all fat people.
Gals, I don’t think anything will convince C’Ann that the causes of fat aren’t anything more than not putting down the fork. She is very uneducated about the many causes of being overweight and/obese.
I could tell her that despite being a 26/28, with no heart problems, no diabetes (sugar is in the 88-106 range), no huge health problems, and getting at least 30 minutes of exercise a day, she wouldn’t believe me because of my size. She also wouldn’t believe me that my self-esteem is high either.
If she and the other fatty haters don’t want to get enlightened, that is their problem. Let them continue their thinking that the root of our fatness is too many trips to McDonald’s and Dunkin’ Donuts (why do haters keep insisting we have a love affair with donuts? I rarely eat them)! The rest of us know better.
I’m perfectly willing to understand and accept your disagreement with what I’ve said, but a lot has been attributed to me which I’ve not said. Please be more careful. What you are doing is what you say you’re against; setting someone up for prejudice, in this case based on hearsay and gossip. Will someone just read what you are saying and implying I’ve said, and not read my posts to find out what the facts are?
Great that you’re so active and healthy Cindy. My point is and was, and I’ve restated it in a couple different ways, I was too at your age. This will not last. Please don’t cite one person you’ve heard of somewhere that refutes what I’ve said. There is always an exception. She is none of us. Really. You’ll very likely get heavier and heavier as you age, and it will cause problems for your joints, heart and lungs, gynecological problems (PCOS, fibroids) the latter two very dependent on an overabundance of estrogen, which is stored in fat. To the poster who corrected me, you’re very right, fat does not make estrogen, it’s fibroids that do. I took something out of that sentence and didn’t realize I had done until I read your comment. Thank you.
It’s all kind of a viscious circle. Very serious problems arise from overweight. Diabetes type 2, for example, is a disease primarily caused by obesity. People can lose their legs, and go blind from that disease. Some die from it. I have personal family knowledge of that.
I have never dieted in my life, on my own or with any diet industry. I’ve never been in a Dunkin Donuts or mentioned it in my posts. I don’t think we have those in my country.
I don’t know if this post will go through. My last one didn’t. I think it didn’t pass the being fat is still sexy test. It told some unpleasant embarrassing truths about being fat.
I’m sorry I mistyped my posting name above.
I also have no heart problems, no diabetes and no other systemic disease.
But I have a lot of injuries caused by being fat. I really think it’s rude to tell me I’m a fat hater when I put my life experience here.
I was you. I am you. Please listen.
CAnn, if it makes you feel better, I appreciate what you are trying to say. I admire people who stop making excuses and lose large amounts of weight. Look at the blogs of Dietgirl, for example, or the articles written by British writer India Knight. People who put their minds to it succeed.
CAnn, type 2 diabetes is NOT caused by being fat. It is correlated because a symptom of insulin resistance is weight gain. If obesity caused diabetes, there’d be a hell of a lot more fat people with diabetes and very few thin. The rate of diabetes for those measured as ‘clinically obese’ is between 5 and 10 percent, even amongst the very fattest people (the rate is uncertain because there are differing definitions of what kind of clinical measures consitute type 2 diabetes).
Medical researchers do not in fact know what specifically causes the onset of type 1 or type 2 diabetes. There are hypotheses about viruses, bacteria, inflammation, immune system malfunctions, neurological problems, and many other things that may cause the body to become resistant to insulin in the bloodstream and/or the pancreas to stop producing insulin altogether. We do know that type 2 is strongly genetic.
Gina Kolata has a very good article on type 2 diabetes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/20/health/20diabetes.html
She points out that many people with T2D lose weight on their low-carb diets, but find that the diabetes returns even if they keep the weight off. So if obesity caused diabetes, surely permanent weight loss would lead to permanent remission? As a diabetes researcher quotes in the article:
Also, some of the medications used to treat type 2 diabetes cause weight gain. So someone might be fat, get T2D, and do everything right – low-carb diet, exercise, taking their medications and getting regular checkups – and yet gain weight AND get their diabetes under control.
La di Da, a new study indicates that permanent weight loss (as a result of weight loss surgery) actually does bring about remission from diabetes for most people:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/health/research/23diabetes.html?ei=5087&em=&en=bde8c5f0e300498e&ex=1201323600&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1201176071-uZmqbZEJwgHDNTE8KlGskw
While it’s too early to call this remission “permanent,” the benefits do extend beyond the period of initial weight loss.
While you’re right that there is a strong genetic component to type II, obesity also seems to be a necessary prerequisite for the development of the disease in most people. Studies over the last 10-15 years have revealed that this is due to the hormonal activity of fat tissue. The fact that weight loss does not cause remission in all patients may be due to permanent aftereffects from these hormones.
Anyway, I don’t think the FA movement does itself any favors by trying to deny the strong scientific evidence about the health consequences of obesity. Obviously, the health consequences don’t mean that obese people should be afforded any less respect than anyone else.
C’Ann, if you go back and read you’ll see that nobody here called you a hater. But it’s true that it hurts to have your life experiences be judged by people who haven’t lived it themselves. That’s happened to all of here, too.
As for Indoor Cat’s comment about admiring people who “stop making excuses and put their minds to it”: if that was all it took, than so many more of us who have gotten advanced degrees or written books or started businesses or who have otherwise displayed plenty of evidence that they possess at least some of personality traits required to accomplish big things… would also be thin.
But if you prefer to look at other people’s rich, interesting lives and construe all the things they’ve learned as simply “excuses” for not being thinner, that’s your choice. And while you’re at it, you might conclude that C’Ann’s litany of complaints are nothing but excuses for being miserable. Though, of course, it’s very nice to say that, is it? So there you go.
Again, conflating your general unhappiness with how society views obesity with what I’ve posted here. I have nothing further to say to someone who deliberately does this. And yes, the same style was used by someone referring to ‘haters’.
As for diabetes2 type 2 when people have eating disorders which they refuse to change (to the point where they are addicted and cannot, without great effort, change) the pancreas just gives up after some point, and you’ve got diabetes type 2. No amount or type of drugs or weight loss is going to cure you by then. Too late. The real tragedy is it’s a disease that was caused. Type 1 is completely different.
Medical researchers DO know what causes type2 diabetes. The people who have it are not willing to hear their message, and other researchers who make their living off the addiction are not going to disabuse you of your delusions.
Seriously, CAnn, you just look like you’re trying to convince us that since you’re sick and miserable, anyone near or above your weight must also be sick and miserable and is just deluding themselves about it.
If you are an 18, I’m a 22, so I’d be heavier than you, and my blood sugar and cholesterol numbers are great. The cholesterol’s low enough that my doctor occasionally makes cracks about how I need to eat more eggs.
You need to realize that YOUR story is not OUR story. If you want to remain convinced that FAT is the cause of all your problems, great. You don’t ever have to read this, or any other Fat Acceptance blog ever again. It’s the lovely thing about Choice, see. You can haz it. If you don’t like the message here, don’t read. But stop with the concern trolling. Find or create a blog that addresses how you feel and leave us alone.
Mo, I hope I’m not over-stepping my bounds here, but I’m getting really tired of the “I’m miserable, so are you, you’re just too stupid to know it” tone of CAnn’s posts.
I’m very sorry to hear this response and to know I caused such consternation. Take care.
La Wade, yes, those studies are short term. So no one can actually say weight loss surgery (which does more to your body than cause fat cells to shrink) does in fact cause long-term diabetes remission. I’ll wait for the ten and twenty year studies, thanks. Gina Kolata (bless her little cotton socks) has also documented the research showing that the reason the various WLS surgeries may cause some diabetes remission is because of the effect it has on the endocrine system, not the weight loss. Even the lap band surgery (as opposed to gastric bypass) interferes with the proper functioning of the digestive system. The stomach is not merely an empty sack in which to receive food and mush it up with acid, it’s an integral part of the immune and endocrine systems, and, some researchers speculate, neurological functioning too.
There are documented cases of people having their type 2 diabetes go into remission after having a nephrectomy (kidney removal), and other curious cases of diabetes remission. The endocrine system is a strange beast and we have so much to learn about it.
And frankly, if I had diabetes? I’d take the health risks of diabetes over the health risks of weight loss surgery any day. (Hell, I’d take the risks of nephrectomy and living on dialysis over any WLS. That’s how fucked I think surgically-enforced malnutrition is.) I’ve got a family member with type 1 diabetes (four insulin shots a day for 20 years), and it’s NOT a horrible death sentence and you’re not doomed to a miserable, sick life either, just as long as you take even a half-hearted go at looking after yourself – including educating yourself on what the real research on diabetes says and making sure your doctors are educated to.
Kolata’s Rethinking Thin also documents the research on concurrent ‘obesity’ and type 2 diabetes, and the thinking from researchers is that there’s a particular genetic strain that gives certain people a predisposition to both being fat and having certain conditions. And it’s not just me and various other fatties claiming that obesity is not a cause of type 2 diabetes. It’s actual diabetes researchers themselves.
CAann, any doctor who tells you they know how diabetes is caused is outright lying. The doctor or scientist who does find out for sure will have a shiny Nobel Prize on their mantelpiece.
I think its pretty pathetic all of the hits you are receiving and articles being written about you just because you are fat.
disgusting reason to be recognized and pitiful excuse to be proud of your life.
but thats just my opinion, which I am entitled to as much as you are entitled to be obese and unhealthy.
La di Da, I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that all obese type II patients ought to get surgery. I agree that the surgery is very invasive and that many people can manage diabetes well without it.
The reason why I brought up that study, though, was to give one example of how the F.A. party line on diabetes not being caused by obesity is badly out of whack with the current scientific literature on the subject. I know this because I am a diabetes researcher myself. I did my Ph.D. work on type II diabetes, and now work at an academic diabetes center, studying obesity and type II diabetes, so I’d like to think I know at least as much about the state of the literature as Gina Kolata. I actually used to work with Ron Kahn, the researcher you quote from Kolata’s article, and he would certainly not agree that obesity doesn’t cause diabetes.
I’m not saying this because I hate fat people or because I think they should all lose weight, because that is not the case. I’m saying it because it’s an overwhelming scientific consensus and I think that people should be aware of it.
I know all too well from some of the recent comments on this blog how some people seize on the health consequences of obesity to belittle fat people and to point a finger of blame at diabetic patients. I think this is contemptible. But I find it equally contemptible to sweep science under the rug because it’s not politically correct.