NPR, Black Women, And Sluts
When NPR comes on, as it does every morning in our house (because Ian is one of those people who I previously thought were mythical beings who actually listen to NPR by choice, and I don’t understand because it is so boring with its little musical interludes and sound effects, who are you people) I just hear “bloob bloob bloob” coming out of the radio. But the recent bloob was Debra Dickerson defending her Salon article about obesity, so I figured I would link to it in case you were interested to hear what kind of sound effects and little musical toodles they will include in this discussion. Or, you know, in case it’s interesting.
The Salon article was, in essence, Debra Dickerson asserting that black men should stop enjoying larger women, and that curvy black women should stop being okay with their larger bodies. She does it nice and condescendingly, too, telling black people that they are ignorant and should “grow up,” among other things.
To the degree that this black fat preference is simply a determination to pooh-pooh anything “white,” blacks need to grow up. If it’s simply ignorance, well, now we know and when you know better you’re supposed to do better. Sorry, brothers, but just as I learned to reject “hard bodies” that are the result of steroids, y’all need to reject “lard bodies” that are, at least in part, the result of slow suicide to please you.
Responses at the time included elyzabeth’s:
Dickerson goes on to point out that “pre-kids” she was a “hardcore gym rat” who harassed co-workers “over the contents of their lunch sacks.” Why do we keep letting people with obvious body issues themselves appear in media to tell everyone what kinds of bodies should and should not be allowed in the media?
And Kate Harding’s:
Campos also adds that black girls, not surprisingly, have lower rates of eating disorders than white girls. But instead of asking what we can learn from them about body image and non-disordered eating, we’re asking how we can get them to obsess about food and weight more like white girls.
Ont he other hand, a guy named Cobb jumps in to say that the real problem isn’t weight, but sexuality:
If there’s anything about cultural messages that are dangerous to women, it’s that sluttery is OK. Feminists have muddied the waters with regard to femininity. That we even have discussions of ‘gender roles’ at this late date is evidence of an overreaching agenda. I mean after all how many PhDs for how many decades does it take to figure out how women ought to behave? Something’s broke here and it’s easy to see. That is that we have elevated looks over character, and what we expect from good looking women is bad character. If superfreak girls are alright with you, then you’re part of the problem.
In addition to thinking that “sluttery” is a problem, he seems to think we shouldn’t even be talking about “gender roles” because women should know how they “ought to behave,” which, what the hell? I would direct Cobb, first of all, to Sarah Bunting’s essay on the word slut. Actually, he might take it literally, so nevermind. You all should read it though.
Wait, what were we talking about? I think this blog post just totally got away from me. Where’s Ira Glass when you need him? Well, I’m sure you guys can take it from here. Toodle toodle toodle toodle plink.
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Fatism, Media, Race & Ethnicity
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Dickerson is obnoxious.
Beyond that, I must admit that I too, am one of those mythical people. But I don’t listen to it live. I download segments and listen to them on my iPod. Is that worse?
That article was beyond offensive. I can’t believe she called a 45″ ass HUGE. That is about a size 14 or 16 – which is the AVERAGE size of women in this country. Besides, haven’t studies shown that a fat ass isn’t as dangerous as having a large waiste? I hate these racist, fatist, fuckers who try to hide behind “health” – at least get your facts straight!
I read that article in Salon. I also left a comment there. I am a sister with a large behind and what she said about having a big butt as being a health risk is (excuse my language) bullshit. I eat a healthy vegan diet and excercise 2-3 times a week. In spite of the fact that I have lost quite a bit of weight, my booty isn’t going ANYWHERE. I agree with the blogger who said that black women are a different body type than our white sisters because black women are genetically prone to being blessed with a large butt, wide hips, and thick thighs. It’s just the way it is and Debra Dickerson should know better.
*sigh*
I don’t even know where to begin on this. What, is Debra upset that we as black women don’t have enough reasons to feel ugly and unappreciated? Does the fact that someone, somewhere, finds something other than “the traditional bony model” attractive frighten her?
I can’t fathom why, really — the “Many” black men that find Buffie and her ilk attractive are far fewer in number than those who would run over her — or the author — with a truck to get to Kiera Knightley. Why is it so important? I’m one of the obese women Dickerson cites, and honestly am befuddled by my husband’s acceptance — and admiration — of my body, ass, stomach, breasts, and all.
Completely befuddled. Because I bought in to all the eurocentric beauty ideals, right down to hating my hair and thighs that refused not to touch. And I’m not alone. I don’t know ANY women who have purposely “blimped’ themselves up to satisfy this Black Ideal, either. Why would we, when we’re so bombarded with examples of how we’re already so aesthetically inferior? Why is it so awful that some of us have decided to actually ignore those examples and love ourselves as is?
I find it hilarious that Dickerson — and mainstream america, it seems — thinks that Black and Hispanic men are somehow immune to the same “thinner is better” (add to that “Whiter is better”) messages that dominate television and advertising. I think it’s downright racist that she thinks we’re too stupid/immature to understand those messages, as detrimental as they are. And I find it sad that she is unaware that millions of minority women will read this article and hate themselves even more than they’ve already been trained to do.
Mmmmmm, sluttery!
“I agree with the blogger who said that black women are a different body type than our white sisters because black women are genetically prone to being blessed with a large butt, wide hips, and thick thighs.”
Being a white woman of Scandanavian descent, I think somewhere in my ancestry there is a black woman because the body type you’ve just described is me to a T.
Am not sure what the connection is between sluttery and a big behind, surely lots of pranging would whittle that right down?
It is not worse, Sony; but it is equally inexplicable!
i completely agree with gina. almost no one in this country would TRY to pack on the weight in order to please men. there are way too many messages out there (received by both men and women) that thin is the only beautiful and attractive body type, and that fat is ugly and disgusting and not sexually appealing.
what a sad sad thing to try to get more women to hate their bodies. especially women who are already having to overcome biases about skintone. but i guess the diet industry doesn’t make 40 billion dollars a year because women love their bodies…
Yeah, I couldn’t even stomach that whole article because I figured she would disgust me on that level.
“I mean after all how many PhDs for how many decades does it take to figure out how women ought to behave?”
Is that supposed to be PC for “Woman, don’t you know your place! My god.
From the article:”Fetishizing large rumps (though “large” doesn’t tell you the half of it without the pix) is, of course, no better or worse than fetishizing plastic blimp-breasts, except that the latter could be considered safer. Their supply can be halted, surgeons are regulated, patients are monitored and, of course, the bearers themselves can have the implants removed.”
She doesn’t offer any evidence about the safety of breast implants vs. being fat–she just believes that if the government controls it , it must be safer.
Why do we keep letting people with obvious body issues themselves appear in media to tell everyone what kinds of bodies should and should not be allowed in the media?
Sweet Baby Ray, how true is that?
But my guess is that it is probably because people who don’t have body issues don’t feel a compulsion to judge everyone against a standard that comes from their own disordered brain, and then go on TV to evangelicize the results.
And of course, the media doesn’t want rational discourse and consensus about anything. Controversey is what attract viewers and readers, sells product, and generates revenue. Controversey must therefore be created where none exists.
whyme63, you and elyzabeth are so smart. And I don’t just say that because I 1000% agree with her take on Debra Dickerson and your fleshing out of how these people end up being “spokespeople” for obesity issues in the media.
I mean, telling black men to “grow up”? And the “gym rat,” criticizing people’s lunch boxes thing? She is so clearly overinvested in this issue, it’s not funny. But play the “health” card and people automatically assume you have credibility and are speaking objective truth.
I am nodding like crazy reading all of these great comments!
I am a white woman who happens to have the “pear-shaped” bottom-heavy[hur hur]-hourglass figure that is supposedly fetishized by black men. I’ve been chatted up by men of lots of different races, the only physical attribute I’ve ever noticed attracting one cultural group was that Italian guys really went for my red hair when I kept it dyed that colour. Soon as I dyed it I was being pursued through the streets of London (actually very creepy, but true).
A) What Gina said.
B) What whyme63 said about controversy and the media. (Methinks that may be why Ms. Dickerson has a Salon column in the first place — outrage draws letters draws ad revenue.)
Dickerson goes on to point out that “pre-kids” she was a “hardcore gym rat” who harassed co-workers “over the contents of their lunch sacks.”
I’m “hardcore” enough that I have my own gym, but I’m certainly not going to harrass other people about what they eat. Why? ‘Cause it’s RUDE.
Ahh, the pleasant waft of the self-hating, over-controlling, over-other-scrutinizing personality. That quote really says it all right there, yes?
” … because Ian is one of those people who I previously thought were mythical beings who actually listen to NPR by choice, and I don’t understand because it is so boring with its little musical interludes and sound effects, who are you people …”
And hey, Mo? Easy on the NPR “tone” snark. Some of your best commenters listen to NPR.
Hee.
Hey, some of the people I am marrying listen to NPR. I love you, I just don’t understand you. Hee!
spinsterwitch I have to say living in Sweden the body type you are deskribing (sp?) is very common among swedish women. Alot of pearshaped women out here :) Just tough you would like to know.
I am a pear-shaped, NPR-listening woman of Swedish descent, and I endorse this column and its comments.
But I noticed that I can’t seem to spell controversy very well. Sorry!
Interesting….there has also been a study done that shows that black women have a slower metabolism than white women. On average, they noticed that black women burned around 106 calories less than white women, even after they lose weight.
There is also the cultural factor, although this may play less of a role than previously thought. Those in lower socioeconomic levels may not have the same access to fresh vegetables, fruit, etc., as someone whose got a little more money. There’s also genetics–blacks often suffer from hypertension far more than whites, and what happens when you have hypertension? Water weight gain.
As for the hostess stating that men need to grow up, what does she look like? I’m guessing she’s no Sophia Loren (who she’d probably say was too fat).
You know, after reading this article I realized that there are two things going on with Debra Dickerson; internalized racism, and internalized sexism. According to her article, we black women are the only ones who have to do something about our weight. Call me crazy, but when I turn on the television or walk down the street, I see quite a few hefty brothers carrying extra poundage in their middle, which is considered to be the most dangerous place for extra weight to be. There is NO mention of that factor in this piece. I also find it appalling that us accepting ourselves is just our way of “pooh poohing anything ‘white'”, even though historically it has taken many strides for sisters (via magazines like “Ebony”, “Jet” and “Essence”) to even get in the radar of what is considered beautiful by mainstream media. Once upon a time a black woman’s chances for making it as a model were slim to forget it, in spite of her having the right dimensions. This article states that not only should we not accept ourselves, MEN shouldn’t accept us either!? I’m sorry, but that upsets me so much. That bullshit REALLY hurts.