Ironically, I Think I Look Fat In This Picture
Totally by accident, we stumbled across the Nimoy exhibit today.
It was actually all thanks to Ian. We were walking through this little town (Northampton) where our hosts had suggested we go, and it was raining and we were huddled under an umbrella, heading for “Steals and Deals,” some kind of crazy discount food store of the type that Ian enjoys. And suddenly he stopped and said, “Wait, what was the name of that museum again? The one with the exhibit you wanted to see? Wasn’t that here?” I guess seeing a small gallery on the road had triggered his memory, and it turned out to be the very gallery itself. Serendipity!
The exhibit is housed in a small vault, and has one wall dedicated to the Maximum Beauty exhibit. (Here is a link to some of the photos, which are probably not safe for work.) We learned that the models used in the series are members of a troupe called the Fat-Bottomed Revue, and that the original founder of the group, Heather MacAllister, has died. Here is a wonderful article about her, from Clean Sheets:
In a culture that sells doubt by the pound, loving an imperfect body is a radical act. Loving that body in a sexual way is downright subversive. Allowing that sexual love to show? I can’t think of a word for it, but I sure would like to see more of it.
Anyway the reason I ran back to my laptop to tell you all about it is that while we were walking around the rest of the gallery (checking out, in particular, the exhibit of the art of Theodore “Dr. Seuss” Geisel) a family walked into the vault. A father and two young teenagers: a girl of about 12 and a boy of about 14. Immediately I heard laughter and shrieks coming from inside. “Yuck!” “That’s gross!”
If I were really subversive, maybe I would have ripped off my clothes and run into the vault. But I didn’t. I just thought, well it does prove that being fat and naked is a radical act. And maybe Nimoy has brought us one step closer to something. And maybe those kids (and others like them) are the reason this blog exists in the first place.
Posted by mo pie
Filed under: Fat Positive, Fatism
i am a girl of about twelve, and i think this blog is just plain AWESOME. when i saw those pictures, i simultaneously thought ‘wow, that’s incredible’ and ‘i’m not fat at all, compared to them’. (note: i am not one of those people who think they’re fat cause they’re not bony.)
I do think it’s serendipity that you came across that gallery…those pictures are absolutely lovely….and the women amazingly beautiful…it breaks my heart that not everyone can see that. I’m a long time lurker in your blog and I just want to say thank you :) for posting today….you made my day.
Or that everyone’s parents will enlighten their child to see that. Oh wait, I forgot, parents don’t have to raise their children now, it takes a village! That didn’t mean to say you let the village take care of your child for you.
I guess it’s too much to expect the parents to say that’s not nice, or shh these days. This is what happens..parents feel it’s ok if they have a 12 year old, for them to act like a 12 year old. They are parents, they should act like adults. Not act as if having kids is a excuse to act immature themselves.
The girl’s reaction might have stemmed from being embarassed to see pictures of naked women with her family. No offense to the very cool Darcy above, but I remember being so very ackward at that age about anything to do with nudity or sex. It wasn’t a family issue, just me. Seriously. My mothers from Finland, and naked family and friend saunas are the norm (at least in the summer at people’s lake houses).
I think you look lovely in that picture.
I belong to an art site where one of Mr. Nimoy’s models posts her works, and without fail, people will flock to her pictures and inform her that she’s disgusting, obese, unhealthy, and that she should be ashamed for “glorifying obesity.” Thankfully, she has a fantastic attitude, and typically these comments don’t seem to phase her, but every time I read them, it makes me cringe.
I’m not surprised at the reaction of the children. They are just following suit of a societal reaction to obesity.
I too think you look fantastic in that photo!
Sounds like my son when he walked in on me.
Why would they have any other reaction? The kids had probably never seen a fat body uncovered. Fat is something to be hidden. So even though fat women are common, images of fat women’s bodies unclothed are rare.
It’s kind of interesting how we feel (or are supposed to feel) when our fat is exposed. I can’t imagine walking around with my belly out any more than i can imagine walking around topless.
I think society would be better served if these kind of parents (whom we assume did not educate their kids re: diversity of body types) be the ones who get their kids taken away…as opposed to the ones
whose kids are deemed obese.
I am torn as to what would be the appropriate response on the part of the parents to the laughing kids. Which I guess is appropriate because I’m not a parent myself. I am mulling over how I will/would handle such a situation if it came up with my own future kids.
My knee-jerk reaction would be to tell them to stop laughing because it’s not polite. And it’s not. But then they go around thinking that fat is some kind of hideous topic that we mustn’t even speak about but avert our eyes from politely, which seems bad. On the other hand I have the depressing suspicion that once they are to the point of feeling empowered to laugh at people’s bodies in an art gallery, the damage is done. Mainly I’m sort of wondering why young-ish kids were examining a nude photography exhibit in the first place (it seems to be the “real thing” in a way that a statue or painting would not usually be)… and then I think that that’s shockingly prudish of me. I really don’t know what I think the parents could or should have done to turn this into a positive.
They *should* think that it’s “gross.” Just as they should if they were to see those same images with overweight men. Or if the images were of individuals who were as underweight as those women are overweight. The general public should not align unhealthy bodies with physical attractiveness. That would be like glamorizing smoking.
While overweight individuals are often and unfairly assumed to be stupid, lazy, etc., will pushing for societal acceptance of larger bodies images improve the social climate for future generations? I really don’t think so. A push for the separation of physical appearances from and individual’s ‘value/worth’ is probably more appropriate. Or a political push against the farm subsidies/government policies that make calories from nutritionally poor foods more cost effective than fresh vegetables, which are increasingly a privilege of those with greater financial resources. etc., etc…
I’m sorry for the non-positive comment. I’m venting some frustration I felt after reading some of the comments on this post.
Some people think that fat bodies are healthy, A Vanda, and are indeed beautiful. Some people also think that fat people should be allowed to leave their houses and get their pictures taken without worrying about whether or not their existence is improving the social climate for future generations.
So this is going to be latest excuse for excluding fat people from TV and movies. We’d be “glamorizing” fatness. Best keep us hidden. Don’t want to give the kids the wrong idea. They might go and vote for a plus-size model to be American Idol!
We are a VERY long way from having to worry about glamorizing fatness to the point where it would put pressure on thin people to try to force their bodies into fatness. We’re a VERY long way from even having to worry about glamorizing fatness to the point where a considerable number of fat people just accept their bodies. The “glamorization” worry is completely unwarranted.
Before you all jump down A Vanda’s throat, really stop and read her comments:
“Will pushing for societal acceptance of larger bodies images improve the social climate for future generations? I really don’t think so. A push for the separation of physical appearances from and individual’s ‘value/worth’ is probably more appropriate.”
I agree. And I’m sorry to say that although of course some very overweight people are healthy (just like some long-time smokers dodge the bullet and have healthy pink lungs) the fact is that being significantly overweight is not healthy.
I do admire these women for being comfortable in their own skin; would that everyone felt so good about him or herself.
I just think efforts could be focused elsewhere that might yield more meaningful results in the fight against discrimination (of ANY kind).
This is in regards to statements made by A Vanta and Anonymous.
IMHO —
Discrimination in any form is WRONG.
Being obese can make a person more at risk for heart disease and diabetes and so forth… BUT people often associate obesity with someone who is fat, lazy, unattractive, etc. These stereotypes follow an obese person wherever he/she may go. As much as we’d like to think that society has changed or will change, the fact still remains that this is a common stigma.
This is not about FAT acceptance. This is not about promoting an unhealthy lifestyle and making it more acceptable. It’s more about self-acceptance in whatever form you are in. It’s about the fact that beauty doesn’t always mean being a size 6. Nemoy’s art clearly conveys that imo.
Besides, what’s so wrong with making someone feel better about themselves so that they can start to make positive changes in their lives? Why is it that people have forgotten what empathy is about?
The difference in concept between anorexia, bulimia and compulsive overeating is that people tend to have more empathy for those struggling with anorexia and bulimia and not so much empathy for those struggling with compulsive overeating. ALL THREE are serious problems.
What gets me is that there is a misconception out there that fat people are out to make other people fat. We promote fat, look fat, eat fat because we are fat. That’s just not true.
Though is it so wrong that we want to love ourselves too? Is it so wrong that we take pride in the fact that a heavy woman is considered a model of art just as much as someone who is thinner?
IMHO - I think not.
I don’t see why agreeing that fat people shouldn’t be fat people should be a requirement of any discussion about fat people. I really don’t see why it is a concession that deserves to be made. The health risks are exaggerated, for one. Its not clear that those risks come from being fat, for two. Its not clear that making a fat person not fat will do anything to reduce those risks, for three. Finally, there is no safe or reliable means of making a fat person a not fat person. In that environment, I don’t see what is productive about wanting to maintain a vicious degree of fat stigmatization. Discrimination exists because fat people are stigmatized “for our own good”. Fat lot of good its done, if you excuse the pun.
Well, all I know is that when people shout “Gross!” at me, I immediately lose twenty pounds and become magically perfectly healthy. I really appreciate the time and effort people put into shaming and stigmatizing me for my own good, and for the good of society, because it’s, like, the best diet ever!
A Vanda said: “They *should* think that it’s “gross.” Just as they should if they were to see those same images with overweight men. Or if the images were of individuals who were as underweight as those women are overweight. The general public should not align unhealthy bodies with physical attractiveness.”
Actually, the problem with society today is that severely emaciated and underweight women have been normalized to the point where when women who are of healthy weight sizes are shown (as in the Dove ads), they’re often demeaned as being fat, obese and disgusting. Don’t believe me? Read critics of the Dove ads, which features women sizes 6 - 12, all of which are considered healthy weights and sizes. The first words out of these critic’s mouths are often fat epithets.
Making fat people into social pariahs, where the only time they’re featured in society is in a negative light, isn’t going to do much to improve the “social climate” either.
And, well said Chiara. Of course we all know that the way to make fat people get off their lazy asses and lose weight is to make them further like shit. I mean, it isn’t as if fat people don’t already have the lowest of low self-esteem as it is.
Hm…just now I am trying to think of any great artwork intended to encourage bodily health, and I cannot think of one. By that token, no one should photograph smokers, and if they do, we should shout “gross!” when we see the pictures and exempt ourselves from having to think any deeper about them, even if the point is something totally beyond or aside from the smoking.
On the other hand, I tend to agree with the commenters who think that kids that age would feel compelled to shout “gross!” when they saw those pictures regardless of what they thought of them, and most parents would be too embarrassed to use the episode as an educational opportunity. I think it’s possible that something along the same lines would happen if the kids saw naked pictures of any body type, though if they were of properly-posed and dressed porn hotties, the boy would hoot and caper (as is required) and the girl would clam up and cross her arms.
Also, I agree with spinsterwitch - you look totally cute in that picture, Mo!
MG
Err - this is huge generalization alert, but maybe some people out there agree with me. I suppose it might be useful to start instructing our kids, as our Finnish commenter Annette said up top, that nudity is not gross - nor is it even sexual. The “None given” commenter made me feel really sad, as that hurts, but also made me think - kids are often never exposed to nudity except in seriously embarrassing situations, which is why they grow up embarrassed or hiding their natural, normal fascination with nudity. Who knows if the kids were put off by fat or if by boobies? Seriously, I’m embarrassed *still* to be shaking off my shame at nudity, which I think is distinctly American (though certainly not every American’s problem as it is mine, and the Brits are having their own breastfeeding controversy now) and really scarring. I accept that fat prejudice is serious business, but I also think that seeing real nudes just naked, not sexualized and come-hither, yes, even when we’re 12 and 14 - not molded and extruded blow-up doll photoshop protohumans shot at best angle and sexualized for porn consumption - might help our brains adjust to the different shapes and sizes we come in. Come on - even the sketches in our 5th-grade “Becoming a Woman” pamphlets don’t look like most of us. And gee, don’t men have naked bodies or is the lesson that we only consume women? My breasts are for you, sport, not for me or my babies. Do old people have naked bodies? (Here she draws the line at kids, absolutely.)
I have nothing to add to this debate, however, I live in the area you are visiting and I shop regularly at Deals and Steals. I hope you made it there, because its pretty cool. I enjoy you blog, thanks.
Um, I hate to be the one who tells you this, but you DO look fat in that picture!
Gee, Melanie, that was nice.
NOT.
Well, fortunately “fat” is not a bad word, right? So I’m still awesome. Woo!
mo pie, “awesome” does not even begin to cover it. you are divine, and i seriously worship you.
I took the picture, and Mo Pie looks so good I will marry her.
jbo, we totally went to Deals and Steals. What a great store, and a great town!
A fat chick poses in front of a photo of even fatter chicks, asks everyone if she looks fat and all her fat friends flock around and coo, “Oh no, you look cute/awsome/whatever”.
Mo, You’re. Still. Fat. And I don’t mean that in a good way.
Well, if you think this is breaking my heart, you clearly haven’t hung around here very much.
But I think you misunderstood the conversation. It’s more like, “a fat chick poses in front of a photo of even fatter chicks, admits it’s not a very flattering photo of herself but she posted it anyway, and her friends (some of whom are fat and some of whom are not) assure her she is still cute and awesome.”
Which. I. Am. Even if you don’t seem to think so!
Mo=awesome
Melanie=not awesome
The End.
Melanie, please leave detailed descriptions of everyone–those who post on this blog, and what the hell, IN THE WORLD–who a) is/isn’t fat and b) looks/does not look cute/awesome/whatever, that those of us who are unfamiliar with your beauty standards may better conform to them. Links to other blogs wherein you’ve posted supposed-to-be-insults about other folks’ looks in the comments would be useful as well, because sometimes, deep down in my heart, I think that some of us fatties are not quiiiiiiite sure if we’re, you know, fat.
[...] fun as it is to continue fighting in the comments, I thought I’d write a post about this issue instead, because I think it raises a few [...]
What Chiara said!
[...] fun as it is to continue fighting in the comments, I thought I’d write a post about this issue instead, because I think it raises a few [...]
Re BStu’s comment : “Finally, there is no safe or reliable means of making a fat person a not fat person.” I’m happy to say, that’s not true.
Hey, Mary,
You’re absolutely right - statement would be more accurate as: “Finally, there is no safe or reliable means of *permanently* making a fat person a not fat person.” I remember feeling the way I am guessing you feel (based on the “happy” comment) when I was at the bottom end of a 120 pound weight loss a couple of years back. I felt unstoppable, and I couldn’t imagine ever regaining the weight again. Circumstances intervened, however, and finally, I had to shift my priorities away from managing my body. I’ve regained 70 pounds.
BStu’s comment doesn’t deny the possibility that there are fat people here and there who lose weight and keep it off. The key word, I think, is ‘reliable.’ And before this sparks anyone to say ‘it’s a simple equation - calories in, calories out. Eat less and exercise more’ or ‘all it takes is willpower,’ let me tell you those are clearly not ALL it takes, or we would all get and stay thin.
What it does take is an unswerving belief in the importance of losing weight, and a willingness to prioritize losing weight over other things that might demand your time, focus and energy. There are times in your life when making weight loss a priority can come to seem like a pretty hollow choice. There are also times, for many of us, when the energy we need to keep it up decreases or is no longer available (depression, a broken leg, etc.).
If my life had remained steady, stable and only reasonably troubled, I would probably have kept the weight off longer. For that stability to remain intact, though, I would not have been able to leave a bad job with no savings and few prospects in the midst of a severe depression. I would have had to somehow avoid the breakup of an passionate but deeply unhealthy friendship. I could not have, at the same time, chosen to pursue a terrifying but elating new career that has brought out the best and the worst in me and set it in a steaming pile at my feet, where I am forced to look at it.
I’ll make one proviso: If I had been in a loving, supportive relationship, I might have pulled it all off, and still be thin now - but, as with weight loss, there is no reliable method of finding one of those, especially when you are feeling broken down and needy.
I wish I could remember the name of the researcher who found that the tiny number of people in his weight loss study who maintained their loss had all found a way to make it central to their lives - they became Weight Watchers counselors, fitness gurus - they found their meaning in the transformation of their bodies, and then dedicated their lives to showing other people how to do that. I can vouch for this, because during the time that I stayed ‘thin,’ my body, my weight loss and my eating - and proselytizing to others about it - absorbed vast quantities of my time and energy. More than I even realized, until I stopped.
There are enough fat people in the world that we can’t all get and stay thin by becoming gurus. Crops would die, novels would go unwritten, cancer treatments undiscovered. Clearly, and thank god, most of us have other fish to fry. So that’s not a ‘reliable’ means either.
Anyway, my apologies for the rant. I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I’m not unhappy for you, Mary - and I don’t want to bring you down. But, as one weight loss ‘winner’ to another, please don’t pretend this should be easy for everyone. It doesn’t help, and it isn’t kind.
- the other Mary
Sorry, I keep forgetting. Only fat hatred and anti-fat spam gets a voice on issues of fatness. How dare I simply notice the record of complete and abject failure that is “Results Not Typical”. Much better to blame fat people. Gotta keep those kids disgusted. You’re creating tomorrow’s customers today. Sorry for remembering that there is no safe or reliable means of turning a fat person into a not fat person. These issues were so much easier to decide when people didn’t point that out.
Why are you fatties so fixated on people not being able to maintain weight loss? I have lost about 100 pounds and kept it off for five years now. I would never say it’s easy, but it’s not that difficult either. And yes, that time period spans a new (and very stressful) job and major surgery.
But what’s with you, Mary Garden??? The first time I read your comments here you had regained 40 pounds. No biggie. Then you mentioned you have regained 50 pounds. Um, OK. Now you’ve regained 70 pounds! WTF?
Thanks for keeping track, Melanie. You’re a helper!
Ah, Melanie is one of those “I lost weight now I can bash fatties too!” individuals! How sad.
By the way Melanie, maybe you should publish some photos of how “fabulous” you look. You might be thin, but no doubt you’re ugly as hell.
Ah, Sarah is one of those “I’m really fat so anyone who has lost weight must be as ugly as hell!” individuals! How sad.
Let’s try to avoid insulting anyone’s looks; I think that’s a kind of irony we should try and avoid. Plus, it doesn’t really elevate the discourse. And we’re usually so good at keeping our fights all brainy!
I am pretty sure that Melanie is ugly, no matter her looks.
It seems like Melanie is indeed ugly on the inside, to the core. Which is? Kinda sad.
Hm…
Why are you fatties so fixated on people not being able to maintain weight loss? I have lost about 100 pounds and kept it off for five years now. I would never say it’s easy, but it’s not that difficult either. And yes, that time period spans a new (and very stressful) job and major surgery.
Would that major surgery include any kind of weight loss surgery? Just wondering, not judging.
Not really a negative comment and I like your blog, but I would point out (maybe you aren’t around kids much, and maybe I misunderstand their specific disgust) that if you show any naked bodies to a 12 year old, there’s a pretty good chance that they’ll be grossed out.
Melanie, what pisses me off about your comments is the implication that you are just perfect in every facet of your life. You give a huge part of your income to charity, you’re kind to dogs and children, you never forget a birthday, you’ve never been mean or sarcastic to someone, you’ve never cut someone off in the parking lot. What I read in your comments is the implication that fat is bad, and you are a better person because you are not as fat as others. Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that you are right - fat is bad. But so are other things. Should I call you up and tell you that you are mean, and not in a good way? What’s that about throwing stones in glass houses?
My other rant is this whole “you are fat” thing. As though there is some official threshold. Basically, you are either Thin or Fat. I’m sorry, I missed the stamp on my passport that told me which category I fit into. Yes yes, I know we have government approved charts and BMIs and all that, but we all know that they really don’t work when applied to specific bodies. My mother, for example, has the same large frame that I do, but is very skinny on that large frame. You wouldn’t look at her and think “She’s THIN!” or “she’s skinny,” because she has a large frame (ie wide hip bones etc.) and is tall. And she probably weighs more than some mythical “ideal weight.” But trust me, the woman couldn’t have less on her bones unless she did have an eating disorder. So which stamp does she get on her passport?
I’ve always wondered why people feel a need to inform us that we are fat. Really? I hadn’t noticed! So that’s why that cute little dress didn’t fit, I didn’t know what those numbers meant ;-) I’m fat, so what. If I lose weight I’ll still have a big mouth and my apartment will still be messy. I love this site.
I love it when people tell me I’m fat. Like it isn’t obvious already and it’s always the ones who are a little round themselves. I just want to twist their arms and make them squeal, but instead I just tell them to keep their mouths shut. I don’t need anyone telling me I’m fat when I already know that and reading those comments by Melanie…god, woman, get a life.
This is my first visit to your site. If I had had this when I was in high school, I would have come out so less damaged, LOL. Leonard Nimoy fucking rocks. You rock. The models in that photography rock. THANK YOU!
Fat bashing has never made me feel better for having done it. It’s hard enough managing my own weight let alone poke my nose into someone elses. Everyone deserves to feel good about themselves.